But their trade routes are not actually better than the civs who get bonuses there. So how do they do it 'much, much better', especially with monumentality and chopping in the game?
I'm frankly confused why you use two generic concepts in a golden age dedication and feature chopping to counter how Phoenicia does settling better. You do realize Phoenicia can also utilize those bonuses too right?
I've heard people saying that the music in the Feature Overview video is Phoenicia's theme, do you guys think this is true? It's hard to imagine the theme having nothing to do with Civ VI and every new Civ has been revealed.
I'm frankly confused why you use two generic concepts in a golden age dedication and feature chopping to counter how Phoenicia does settling better. You do realize Phoenicia can also utilize those bonuses too right?
The point of chopping and monumentality are to bypass the direct production of settlers and commercial hubs/harbours.
For example, how I play Cree on deity, is by constantly moving Magnus into a newly founded city, chopping a commercial hub in, finishing/buying a market if needed, then buying a settler and trader with faith. You can do this as Phoenicia, but you will have less things to chop.
I very rarely build a settler after the first few, and Phoenicia will need a Cothon(!!) to get the bonus to production. It will not work out like you think it will.
The point of chopping and monumentality are to bypass the direct production of settlers and commercial hubs/harbours.
For example, how I play Cree on deity, is by constantly moving Magnus into a newly founded city, chopping a commercial hub in, finishing/buying a market if needed, then buying a settler and trader with faith. You can do this as Phoenicia, but you will have less things to chop.
I very rarely build a settler after the first few, and Phoenicia will need a Cothon(!!) to get the bonus to production. It will not work out like you think it will.
Goddess of the Harvest chopping and Monumentality + Magnus has always been the most broken way to start since R&F came out. Anyone can use this strategy and there's nothing that the Cree do that makes it easier.
The Cree and Phoenicia will play very differently, as they should. I've used the strategy above as the Cree to quickly get an 8 city Colosseum empire up really quick and then never settling again. It's fun but requires relatively less aggression/neighbors to make work, and it will never reach the same ceiling that Phoenicia can reach.
You can't even attempt to do what you can do with Phoenicia with Cree. Want to settle all continents on a Large/Huge or above map with Cree? It will take forever.
If you've ever played England on Emperor/Diety it plays pretty similarly, except you have a lot more flexibility with Phoenicia because you can settle at will on your home-continent and then switch your capital to the next continent you're expanding to whenever you like. Harbors with a Shipyard with Naval Infrastructure makes it really easy to get a city to have good gold, production, and trade route capacity quickly. They might not get the +2 gold England's RNDY get but anywhere with 2 coastal resources can get 8 gold, 8 production from a single, non-worked tile. Also, when exploited properly, Colonial Taxes is the most broken single policy you can have. England used to be the best at exploiting that, now its Phoenicia.
The point of chopping and monumentality are to bypass the direct production of settlers and commercial hubs/harbours.
For example, how I play Cree on deity, is by constantly moving Magnus into a newly founded city, chopping a commercial hub in, finishing/buying a market if needed, then buying a settler and trader with faith. You can do this as Phoenicia, but you will have less things to chop.
I very rarely build a settler after the first few, and Phoenicia will need a Cothon(!!) to get the bonus to production. It will not work out like you think it will.
Also I don’t understand why the Cree keep popping up in this thread? No one is attacking them or saying Phonecia is somehow better or invalidates them?
The only time I believe they were even mentioned was back in an analysis video that said Dido was weak “like the Cree” because she lacked a specific focus. And I don’t agree with that about Dido, and certainly not about the Cree they are a great Civ.
But not one that I think is particularly analogous to Phonecia, they will play quite differently to each other so direct comparisons are a bit suspect?
Also, chopping is already being fixed and I suspect we will see monumentality getting some tweaks. But even if not, Didos production on settlers will let her use her Golsen age bonuses and chops for other things, so she can try other routes. It makes sense that a route that’s strong for the Cree might be less optimal for Dido, but she probably has her own path that might be equally effective.
Nah, I think they are gonna the play pretty differently. The only similarity is that they don’t have any specific victory bonus and they have bonuses specific to infrastructure. But I think the bonuses themselves are quite different.
The Cree are great! But I think, and hope, that Phonecia are going to surprise you and be pretty solid themselves
Nah, I think they are gonna the play pretty differently. The only similarity is that they don’t have any specific victory bonus and they have bonuses specific to infrastructure. But I think the bonuses themselves are quite different.
The Cree are great! But I think, and hope, that Phonecia are going to surprise you and be pretty solid themselves
I hope they surprise me, but I doubt they will. Although the tweet about them moving their original capital will make for some fun times. Building Casa and slotting the colonial-type polcies while moving the capital to its own tiny island continent will be awesome sauce.
I hope they surprise me, but I doubt they will. Although the tweet about them moving their original capital will make for some fun times. Building Casa and slotting the colonial-type polcies while moving the capital to its own tiny island continent will be awesome sauce.
Agreed. 25% gold, 15% growth and 10% production is no joke, particularly if she makes an expansive empire with some rapid settling.
Evening settling on a few contitents, keeping her powerbase and then settling on your random utopian tiny island continent will supercharge all her cities. Could be hard to pull off but an absolute sight to behold.
Agreed. 25% gold, 15% growth and 10% production is no joke, particularly if she makes an expansive empire with some rapid settling.
Evening settling on a few contitents, keeping her powerbase and then settling on your random utopian tiny island continent will supercharge all her cities. Could be hard to pull off but an absolute sight to behold.
Yeah, I will be playing them second after the Maori (I am part Maori and hate chopping). I always play huge continents so it should make for some hilarious island paradise capitals. I just wish Phoenicia's trade routes generated science or culture.
If you look closely at the preview video, when Phoenicia moves its capital (at about the 1 minute mark) the project takes only one turn, so the move is effectively instant. And if you look at the new capital you can see the palace appear, so it seems palace moves as well.
I wouldn't pay attention to the numbers in these first look videos, you can clearly see they've rigged the game and it doesn't represent actual gameplay. You can see that Carthage has 4.4 production per turn, yet almost everything in the city will take 1 turn to build. That includes the moving capital project, which has a base cost of 100 production, but a current cost of 170 production. So, the question is, how is this production cost determined?
Does the moving capital project get more expensive every time you complete it?
Also, they are playing on quick speed. Do city projects scale with game speed?
You should be able to then get up your Government Plaza (with your production boost) and a Tier 1 building. That’ll boost yields and give you strong synergies if you grab ancestral hall (even more settlers and still no cares about loyalty). Also a quick extra Governor title. But now you also have extra trade routes to play with. Very nice. And if you put your GP is a strong city, then it’ll be very very powerful because you get half price districts in this city.
I'm sorry for being pedantic, but it's +50% production. That equates to a third off, not half price.
There will probably be some silly fun using your moving capital to flip Foreign cities or changing your home continent to maximise all the colonial cards. You can also use your loyalty ability to create beachheads for war on foreign continents. Lots of fun strategies.
Absolutely, this is the most unique thing about Phoenicia, and should be fun to play with. I rather like loyalty flipping. I didn't even consider the colonial cards.
I also think being able to settle wherever you want on your original continent without regard to loyalty might be very useful for setting up you terriotory, and close off areas for your competitors.
Great post, I am looking forward to Phoenicia even more now.
I also think being able to settle wherever you want on your original continent without regard to loyalty might be very useful for setting up you terriotory, and close off areas for your competitors.
It should still help somewhat with loyalty though, as if you plop a city down on the coast then you should be able to fairly safely put an inland city or two close by without too many loyalty issues.
My plan for Dido is to settle the choice coastal spots across my first continent, and be as far reaching as my resources and military allows. Then I’ll probably settle a few inland cities to consolidate the continent and get some choice yields.
Then I’ll send some settlers out to shores abroad and colonise, set the colonial cards and start building up the second continent using the colonial boosts to gold to buy in districts and units etc.
Definitely some nuance and DEFFO some trial and effort involved, but I think it will be very fun
It should still help somewhat with loyalty though, as if you plop a city down on the coast then you should be able to fairly safely put an inland city or two close by without too many loyalty issues.
My plan for Dido is to settle the choice coastal spots across my first continent, and be as far reaching as my resources and military allows. Then I’ll probably settle a few inland cities to consolidate the continent and get some choice yields.
Then I’ll send some settlers out to shores abroad and colonise, set the colonial cards and start building up the second continent using the colonial boosts to gold to buy in districts and units etc.
Definitely some nuance and DEFFO some trial and effort involved, but I think it will be very fun
You could keep them in new continent and reap in a lot of gold and production, and once you have established 2-3 cities in the new area then move it back.
OR..
Find a third continent out of the way, plop a city down, capital it and boost both!
So if the Palace remains in the new capital after one reconquers their old capital, why do people assume Phoenicia won't keep theirs when they relocate?
So if the Palace remains in the new capital after one reconquers their old capital, why do people assume Phoenicia won't keep theirs when they relocate?
When someone conquers a capital currently, the Palace moves to the next best city for the "Current Capital". So the palace will move as normal with Phoenicia.
The real question is... When you run the city project to move capital when your capital was conquered; do you move the "Original Capital" from under your conquer's control? Undoing their domination with the city project? Or will it just move the "Current Capital" only in this scenario?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
