[GS] Phoenicia Discussion Thread

[CivLuvah]

I find it strange they use the vowel-free Punic name for Lpqy, but we're not treated to Qrt-hdst or Sr.

Dd th Phncn lphbt hv ny vwls?

DT: Crrctd grmmr

 

[Daigotsu Max]

During the last livestream, the devs said in Twitch chat that we should check back next week for something very interesting (or something along those lines), regarding the music. My theory is that they put the Ottoman theme in this video to not reveal whatever it is that's "interesting"...

Maybe they got Dido to sing? XD

Overall I really like it, despite it having no unique improvement. It feels like a real expansion kind of civ.

 

[frubox]

Second that. Any... modders out there?

This would not be good for two reasons:

1) Loyalty pressure is a thing, it would be abused
2) As per the point above, it would make Phoenicia completely useless by making its most unique feature and strategy a generic one

 

[IvoryPavane]

I think another thing that might be quite powerful with Dido is that she can build up her cities quite efficiently.

Assuming the palace moves with her city when it because the capital then she can move her capital to build up the city quickly, and then move again to build up a newly settled city.

The potency of that depends on whether or not the project is completed by the current or anticipated capital.

(Also the Cothon being 50% cheaper to build will help immensely with getting these cities up and running).

Plus, I do love the idea of plopping down a city next to other civs and not worrying about loyalty, and defending it with invincible ranged naval units)

Really feeling this Civ, but since she doesn’t skew to any victory type, she might be a challenge to play well

 

[Jkchart]

I'm down. Sure some of the aspects are kind of wonky, but it really emulates the idea of Phoenicia.

-the capital movement bonus is a good anti domination defense, and also properly alludes to the movement of the Phoenician power base from Lebanon to North Africa. It’s kind of cool - I wish all civs could do that (and maybe hers is faster and there would be negatives she Could avoid that other civs would have to deal with), but I digress. She’s the perfect Civ to try this out with to see if they want to expand these capabilities.

-her leader model is excellent!

-sure the Bireme is just “mandekalu on sea”, but having sea trade routes be pillaged is super annoying. You can’t make every UU a super power, and it’s a good nod to their maintenance of coastal trade network.

-the 100% loyalty for coastal cities is beautiful.’it means you know where you’ll want to concentrate your power base, just like the Phoenicians/Carthage.

-I like the government plaza trade boost and extra district production. Cheaper productions in your best cities, while slightly underwhelming, is still a wonderful turn saver.

-faster embarked settlers is nice and will help you claim areas farther away that you might like your opponents not to have.

-the cothon is good! The cheaper settlers is my favorite part, and since ships are more difficult to build in a lot of coastal cities due to less production, the discount there will be nice.

-the writing eureka is a fun bonus/nod to history.

Overall, even though it’ll be not the most “overpowered” Civ, it’s the most fun and does a great job with the history of the people. And that’s something i really Love is the care and research they went to really set her apart and make her unique.

 

[Ziad]

Well I like the overall theme of expansionism but I am also slightly disappointed (all my fault).

It appears the expectation is mass settlement and the trade empire is boosted through a massive number of trading cities. This is easily accomplished with +50% settler production through the Cothon. This means that you'll always have more settlements than other people, and the loyalty bonus essentially ensures that no matter how much you settle you will be loyal. So you don't have to settle inland to maintain loyalty pressure. Just coast is fine and you will want to settle everywhere. Moving your capital means you can begin a new string of cities without instantly succumbing to loyalty pressure.

I totally approve of this. It's what you expect from Phoenicia. It's pretty great overall.

GO FORTH AND FORWARD SETTLE!

Furthermore you will pretty much conquer any coastal cities easily with essentially instantly healing ships, supplanting other civilization coastal settlements with your massive navy. This is the more Carthaginian feel of the abilities.

However there is some dissonance here. A lot of their benefits rely on the Government district, which can only be built once. It also has a hard cap of 4 trade routes in total, which in itself is pretty underwhelming. They should be swimming in trade routes, not just through city spam. If the Cothon provided +1 trade route no matter what then it would be a different story, but it doesn't.

Maybe we'll hear more on the livestream. Maybe they have a secret ability to build a Government Plaza 3 times. This might make it a lot better, but probably not.

The Writing Eureka is also pointless even if very thematic. You meet a civ and you get it and it almost always happens instantly. It should just be the Writing Technology given, and I really hope people push for this before release.

It appears the connection to a trade empire is through essentially spamming cities on coast and building your trade routes. I like the overall theme, but it could have been done slightly better.

The civ screams thalassocracy though. I love it. The colors are also iconic.

The music though... why is it Ottomans? lol

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Cothon District
View attachment 516154

The cothon district actually is the major bonus to them. Look at the science and gold yields per citizen specialist! Going tall makes sense for them.

Edit: It is the specilist slot apparently.

 

[Leathaface]

Meh, I find them underwhelming. But I did guess Dido's LUA name and that the civ would play with loyalty mechanics.

If anyone had gotten unique luxuries (like V's Indonesia), I'd have wanted it to be Phoenicia.

Also, they were wrong about the number of unique units. As we can see, Phoenicia does indeed have one.

My thoughts exactly. The first look says Phoenicia is strong at all victories yet I don't see any bonus to Science or Culture? Apart from 50% production towards a Campus and a Theatre Square in ONE city?

 

[Equilin]

Not a strong civ, but sounds fun. Cothon looks great!

Now I hope someone kicks RND to become Shipyard UB (and maybe buff the hell out of it).

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

Cothon District
View attachment 516154

Have harbor specialists always provide +2 gold and +1 science?

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

My thoughts exactly. The first look says Phoenicia is strong at all victories yet I don't see any bonus to Science or Culture? Apart from 50% production towards a Campus and a Theatre Square in ONE city?

The cothon has science bonus and a large one!

 

[Onii-chan]

The cothon district actually is the major bonus to them. Look at the science and gold yields per citizen! Going tall makes sense for them.

Doesn't per citizen just mean the number of citizens working the harbor district tile and its buildings (or cothon in this case)? That's not really a big deal if so

 

[Sagax]

My thoughts exactly. The first look says Phoenicia is strong at all victories yet I don't see any bonus to Science or Culture? Apart from 50% production towards a Campus and a Theatre Square in ONE city?

With wide being the name of the game now, cheap settlers are an indirect way for you to excel at all kinds of yields. You don’t need a Seowon if you can just get 2 more campus cities faster than Korea can say “Hwacha”

 

[BenitoChavez]

I am underwhelmed by Phoenicia's abilities. They are either too niche, too many hoops you have to jump through, or just dull.

 

[Jewman]

Honestly that loyalty bonus is going to be huge, no two ways around it. It is ANNOYING to settle even just your first few cities sometimes. Just eliminating that factor from the game entirely is a solid bonus.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I found the look of Dido a little too simple, it just seems like a rework of Gorgo's drawing.

I guess I'm not the only one who noticed she looked like a nicer Gorgo with more purple.

The cothon district actually is the major bonus to them. Look at the science and gold yields per citizen! Going tall makes sense for them.

That's already there for citizens working in a regular harbor.

 

[Kibikus]

The cothon district actually is the major bonus to them. Look at the science and gold yields per citizen! Going tall makes sense for them.

That's just the specialist slots in the harbor, they are the same as they are currently in the game, no change there.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I'm not surprised we got Dido, but I would have liked to see Hannibal, since he 100% for sure actually existed.

Maybe as an alt leader sometime. Still, Hannibal's playstyle would be far different, for sure.

 

[pgm123]

This makes dominating them kinda wonky. I doubt the AI will use the moving capital much but in MP I can see finishing the project up to the last tick and the second they're about to lose their capital switching it.

I'm assuming it still counts your "original" capital.

 

[Ziad]

I wouldn't assume that.

I also hadn't thought about the Palace moving. That would be great in itself.

Also should rename the wonder to Phoenician Arsenal cause you'll WANT this.