Phoenicia

[NerfCothons]

Without the dye goal, why would you settle Sur at all now? Couldn't you just found your first city as Carthage and get the free palace?

Edit: I would suggest making the goal "Control Italy, Iberia, and Sur"

Your core territory is around Sur, I imagine your stability would go to if another civ occupied the area.



After a play-through I'm pretty happy with most of the changes. Although the build a new palace goal feels a bit contrived. OK fine I'll build a new palace even though my old one is secure and it will hurt my stability to do so. Maybe a side effect of some other action could be to move the palace to Carthage.

 

[youtien]

Tried the new Phoenician. African war elephant is powerful, too powerful, no unit can counter it at the time. Once you have 1-2 of them, plus mercenary, I killed Romans easily, while Rome got only 2 archer, and one legion building Roman road regardless of my conquest on Rome and Milan. Greeks also long gone with my early mercenary attack.

There should be some restriction, like: war elephants can only be trained in areas under 30 latitude, or simply in North & Mid Africa and Persia and South/Southeast Asia, and they should get combat penalty outside elephant's native area, and/or they have higher upkeep cost. In fact, all cavalry units should have higher upkeep cost than infantry, and modern units should cost more to maintain too.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Those are much too specific proposed nerfs.

Honestly? If we start to see mega-Phoenicia in most games, then we should hit them with the nerf-bat.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Those are much too specific proposed nerfs.

Honestly? If we start to see mega-Phoenicia in most games, then we should hit them with the nerf-bat.

The UU and UB boosts almost exclusively affect Human player. I still think AI Phoenicia will usually die without ever teching to Currency or building a War Elephant.

Perhaps the the UU can keep its free Shock promotion (or give it +25% vs. Swordsmen) at the price of -1 Strength, into a Strength of 7. Ideally, you want the UU to be able to crush unfortified Legions outside of cities, unless the Legions have Formation (Scipio Africanus).

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

The UU and UB boosts almost exclusively affect Human player. I still think AI Phoenicia will usually die without ever teching to Currency or building a War Elephant.

Perhaps the the UU can keep its free Shock promotion (or give it +25% vs. Swordsmen) at the price of -1 Strength, into a Strength of 7. Ideally, you want the UU to be able to crush unfortified Legions outside of cities, unless the Legions have Formation (Scipio Africanus).

Yeah, if we are going to nerf it at all, I like iOnlySignIn's idea. +1 from me.

 

[youtien]

It's just absurd that you can build African war elephants in Europe and Asia and Cyprus.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

It's just absurd that you can build African war elephants in Europe and Asia and Cyprus.

We can make pretend that the Phoenicians were transplanting elephant populations worldwide then

 

[BenZL43]

There should be some restriction, like: war elephants can only be trained in areas under 30 latitude, or simply in North & Mid Africa and Persia and South/Southeast Asia, and they should get combat penalty outside elephant's native area, and/or they have higher upkeep cost. In fact, all cavalry units should have higher upkeep cost than infantry, and modern units should cost more to maintain too.

+1 to this, but should not limited to Phoenicia only..
Perhaps this should be unique feature to any unit that require Elephant, and maybe, Horse (Camel Archers). It should works like how SoI only allow Elephants to be trained only in India even though you're KoJ and have access to Elephants, for example.

Has anyone remember many months ago (maybe half a years ago) I posted snapshot about the Dutch trained War Elephants in Europe? It's in B&TI thread iirc, one or two revision after the Prussia is added.

Dutch settled 1 city in the Ivory Coast and abused their Elephant to train stacks of War Elephant in Amsterdam.

 

[youtien]

+1 to this, but should not limited to Phoenicia only..
Perhaps this should be unique feature to any unit that require Elephant, and maybe, Horse (Camel Archers). It should works like how SoI only allow Elephants to be trained only in India even though you're KoJ and have access to Elephants, for example.

Has anyone remember many months ago (maybe half a years ago) I posted snapshot about the Dutch trained War Elephants in Europe? It's in B&TI thread iirc, one or two revision after the Prussia is added.

Dutch settled 1 city in the Ivory Coast and abused their Elephant to train stacks of War Elephant in Amsterdam.

That's what I thought. In reality, elephants are not ideal war animal, are good only in their native residence, and African elephant is not as tame as Asian. By the way, how can you load an elephant (or two) onto a galley? Is ancient galley capable of carrying elephant?

 

[strijder20]

That's what I thought. In reality, elephants are not ideal war animal, are good only in their native residence, and African elephant is not as tame as Asian. By the way, how can you load an elephant (or two) onto a galley? Is ancient galley capable of carrying elephant?

Unless there were Phoenician elephant breeding programs in Iberia, yes. Hannibal didn't get his ellies from the Celts, for sure.

 

[Stazro]

That's what I thought. In reality, elephants are not ideal war animal, are good only in their native residence, and African elephant is not as tame as Asian. By the way, how can you load an elephant (or two) onto a galley? Is ancient galley capable of carrying elephant?

The elephants that were trained for war by the carthaginians were not the same animals we know as african elephants, but a smaller (not only than the huge africans, but also the asians), now extinct species, that only lived in northern africa.

The accounts regarding Hannibal crossing the alps describe how one of his elephants was larger than the others. This bigger animal was called 'Surus', which means 'the Syrian', from which we can assume that it was bought from the seleucid (greek) kings: These in turn had regularly imported elephants from India and tried to establish breeding programs in Syria, part of their own domain.

Just a bit of background.

 

[OrcWarrior]

UHV is glitched

Spoiler :

ALSO
I don't know if this a bad thing or not

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[Leoreth]

Do you have a save from before 100 BC?

And what's the matter in the last two screenshots?

 

[OrcWarrior]

Do you have a save from before 100 BC?

And what's the matter in the last two screenshots?

I think it's because I conquered the last city in Italy right after 100 BC, which was kind of unfair because I was right about to capture Mediolanum then the Romans collapsed which resulted in indies pushing back my units into Rome. The last 2 pictures just showed the uber tech of Phoenicia

 

[Leoreth]

I think it's because I conquered the last city in Italy right after 100 BC, which was kind of unfair because I was right about to capture Mediolanum then the Romans collapsed which resulted in indies pushing back my units into Rome. The last 2 pictures just showed the uber tech of Phoenicia

But you should have either failed or met the goal by now.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

^ There. That's the Mega-Phoenicia TD was talking about.

To start with, remove the +50% Trade Route yield in Glassmaker. Otherwise everyone will be ignoring Compass and researching Education/Printing Press instead.

 

[mykeedee]

2nd UHV is bugged, also the UHV description text isn't right.

Spoiler :

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

^ There. That's the Mega-Phoenicia TD was talking about.

To start with, remove the +50% Trade Route yield in Glassmaker. Otherwise everyone will be ignoring Compass and researching Education/Printing Press instead.

^It would also help to know what speed and difficulty settings OrcWarrior is playing on.

It looks like Normal Speed, but if it's Viceroy Difficulty...

 

[mykeedee]

^It would also help to know what speed and difficulty settings OrcWarrior is playing on.

It looks like Normal Speed, but if it's Viceroy Difficulty...

The UB is still incredibly OP I play on Monarch/Epic and I was able to up my tech slider by 2 levels once I finished my first glassmaker, and started building wealth in the same city, it got even better with lighthouses.

 

[OrcWarrior]

^It would also help to know what speed and difficulty settings OrcWarrior is playing on.

It looks like Normal Speed, but if it's Viceroy Difficulty...

Being a big noob myself it was Viceroy on Normal Speed, but I can tell Glassmith would still be OP on Monarch and Emperor. Combine that with the Great Lighthouse and Harbors and you've got yourself the most technologically advanced civ in the world. Not even China can compete, more reasons for this is because once you kill Greece and Rome you are literally the only one with Pantheon with Egypt being the exception. Egypt could never compete with Phoenicia in the race to build all of the world wonders though.