Pie's Ancient Europe

[pie_at]

The first time it WAS a warning! But the second.... Look at your city healthiness! That's no joke!

 

[Malgoffen]

PIE,

NS, but I have every possible improvement there to stave off disease. My problem comes from it being Akkad, situated in the swamplands of Mesopotamia. I should have built TC in some dry, desolate, arid, inhospitable but to the lore of writing I guess. HA!!!

Thanks anyway. Really cool mod. Love it to death. Really... death.

JK

 

[primordial stew]

As I could read, that there is no plan for your RFRE Mod for BTS, what about a PAE modmod for RFRE for BTS? could you imagine that? But wait some days.... the new update kicks the old version out

ehm: The new version is still running in the german forum. So, maybe it is too late for this one, but I will add some nice features, which are in planning and then I could use your graphics!
Thanks for your offer!!!

-------------------------------------

The next update will be uploaded in the next few days. A big list of great new features and updates will follow....

There really is some fantastic art out there. I've only done a few modifications, but it is a collection of much of the appropriate art work available. Like there is a proper Forum Romanum and Ishtar Gate. It's nice to see another use for the Thraex, but I disagree with it being a non-barbarian unit. Gladiators were too valuable (and dangerous) to use in a military role.


Perhaps a mod-mod can be done RFRE is only the Roman historical point of view, but some things could well be generalized such as you have them like the Christian persecutions. I really like the unhealthy and unhappy events, and the slave rebellions too. All things I have in python, but they are not so polished or advanced in that BtS has more capabilities available. Like how slaves can be consumed to enhance buildings.

There are certain things that BtS can do that Warlords cannot, such as the hidden-nationality pirates. For Warlords we have to settle with them being Barbarians. Another is ability to change inflation. I've tried to model the economic collapse that begins the Crisis of the Third Century, but again Warlords is not capable of this. The effect is reasonable, but some Warlords bug with how the turn # is used in such calculations leads to different inflation and trade route yields depending on the number of turns played instead of the game turn #. Actually I'd be surprised if the same bug isn't in BtS, but I've never seen a sequence of scenarios that would shed light on this. If you do create any historical snapshots this is something to watch out for.

Another thing I really like is that every improvement has a direct gold cost. I've had to abstract this through special units with upkeep cost and through some actions consuming the unit (eg build a mine), but BtS provides this. It's surprising this isn't commonly used!


Looking forward to the next version

 

[pie_at]

@malgoffen: don't play to death

There really is some fantastic art out there. I've only done a few modifications, but it is a collection of much of the appropriate art work available. Like there is a proper Forum Romanum and Ishtar Gate. It's nice to see another use for the Thraex, but I disagree with it being a non-barbarian unit. Gladiators were too valuable (and dangerous) to use in a military role.

that's true. how should I implement the gladiator unit in your opinion? just as a rebell when revolting? or an unique unit for each player (building only one active unit)?

Perhaps a mod-mod can be done RFRE is only the Roman historical point of view, but some things could well be generalized such as you have them like the Christian persecutions. I really like the unhealthy and unhappy events, and the slave rebellions too. All things I have in python, but they are not so polished or advanced in that BtS has more capabilities available. Like how slaves can be consumed to enhance buildings.

yeah, that's true. that's because I tried to begin modding with the BTS version...

There are certain things that BtS can do that Warlords cannot, such as the hidden-nationality pirates. For Warlords we have to settle with them being Barbarians. Another is ability to change inflation. I've tried to model the economic collapse that begins the Crisis of the Third Century, but again Warlords is not capable of this. The effect is reasonable, but some Warlords bug with how the turn # is used in such calculations leads to different inflation and trade route yields depending on the number of turns played instead of the game turn #. Actually I'd be surprised if the same bug isn't in BtS, but I've never seen a sequence of scenarios that would shed light on this. If you do create any historical snapshots this is something to watch out for.

It is the same in BTS. I tried it, but I can't make it era specific. as you said, it IS turn based... so, although I set the inflation value very low, you couldn't really afford a mine in the iron era. ;( pfff.... so, I had to set it to zero again. ;(

ok, I will have a look at your RFRE... just downloaded yesterday but I forgot that warlords needs the dvd... I just did not get into my "old gaming room" because this one is already occupied by my baby kid...

Better graphics are ALWAYS welcome!!!

 

[Keinpferd]

primordial stew, if there is one mod that I regret the most being unable to play on a mac, then it's your RFRE. If it wasn't using a 48 civ dll., it would probably be possible to deal with some xml loading errors. Just by reading through the features included in RFRE and its scenarios, I immediately know, a symbiosis with PAE of some kind would be a dream!

 

[blue_inStinCt]

Hey Pie_at me and my friend started ur mod yesterday, me palying celts, and him as the greeks (Tekkmessa)
and i have to say: GJ this mod is amazing. we have been playing for about 5 hours on epic speed on the 18 civ europe map. we only encountered OOS massage twice !
so this is absolutely perfect for us.
Thanks alot for the hard work on this, we defenitely enjoy every bit of it

greetings from vienna

 

[pie_at]

hey blue!
have a look at the german civ forum civforum.de! there could share more interesting threads.
I am very, very glad, you like this mod! try out the next version! IT IS even more fantastic!!!

I am going to upload this version now....

for the german speaking guys out there... you could use the link at civforum.de

 

[pie_at]

The NEW VERSION ready to download!

A list of the main changes:

-) XML: Bonus Papyrus: +1
-) XML: Bonus Amber: +1 , +1 health
-) XML: changed AI-Weight of resources (amber, papyrus, cereals)
-) XML: espionage cost per turn lowered from -20% to -5%
-) XML: no limits for emigrants, but more expensive
-) XML: harbor can produce merchants
-) XML: bear from ST4 toST3
-) XML: Quinquirems get first strike immunity
-) XML: Techs with classic more expensive
-) XML: all mercenary units +20% strength
-) XML: Max number of mercenary units. 20 = Standard, the stronger the lower max. number.
-) XML: higher AI-Weight for palace
-) Python: decreased chance of leprosy and plague to 8%
-) Python: decreased dying slaves during improvement building from 5% to 4%
-) Python: a city with leprosy can revolt for 2 turns
-) Python: no dying units with plague anymore. but units get hurt in a radius of 2 plots from the city.
-) Python: christian revolt decreased to 20%
-) Python: new feature: wine extension with a vintager
-) XML: new resource: grapes (+1 food)
-) XML: new building: vintager
--) +5% gold
--) creats a winery around its city
--) can only be built with grapes
--) adds 1 wine resource per turn
-) Python: changed chance of getting a GP when conquering a city:
conquered 50%, flees 40%, dies 10% (before: 33% each)
-) XML: Quinquerem can only be contructed with a military academy
-) XML: christ. and jew. missionaries can only be built with monasteries (again like in CIV)
-) XML: church -25%, christ. monastery -50% research
-) XML: Zoroastrism is the favorite religion of the mesos
-) XML: more CIV-based background music
-) XML: changed names for the three legion levels: polybian, marian and imperial legionary
-) Python: unattended slaves, which are conquered by a rebell, supports the rebellion and become rebell units too.
-) XML: palisades, walls and high walls get more defense bonuses
-) XML: new wonder movies: Abu Simbel, Academy, Babel, High Walls, Labyrinth, Silk Road, Sphinx, Mint press
-) Python: new feature: defecting cities
-) Python: new feature: neighbour cities can revolt, when a city gets lost by the enemy. And 100% if the conquered neighbour city gets razed . So: in sum: 2 cities can revolt....
-) Python: feature plague: new design and completely revised
-) Python: Emigrants can disband cities
-) XML: Leader-Unit gets +50% strength
-) Python: Leader-Unit gets +1 XP when a unit of the stack wins a battle
-) XML: small updates of resources
-) XML: new unit: freedom fighter ST 7
-) Python: new feature: Fleeing of defeated units (10% each, + 3 new promotions: 20%, 30%, 50%)
-) Python: new feature: rebelling stacks (Rebellion = gets barbarian, Chance per unit of a plot +0.05 %, when in peace +2% to the sum)
-) Python: new feature: revolting cities (high taxes, religion, home sickness, anarchy (eg when changing civic))
-) Python: new feature: rebelling cities (gets independend or join their initial nation)
-) Python: new feature: merchant robberies
-) XML and graphics: new CIV: Scyths - Atheas
-) XML and graphics: new CIV: Dacia - Decebal
-) XML and graphics: new leader: Dido, Nebukadnezar
-) XML: Forts in late ancient era
-) 7 Cults and cultures (instead of corporations) !!!
-) Python: revolting jews
-) Python: surface of huns with 250 AD : tribute feature!!!
-) Python: 3 new status bars in the city screen (Revolts/Plague, Rebellions/Independence, defecting to the enemy)
-) XML and Python: Decentralization: very low maintenance costs (good for colonizing the world - bad for independence feelings of the city)
-) Map: grapes only in historical sites: Italy, Greece, Anatolia, Syria, Persia und Egypt
-) Map: Forests in N-Africa
-) MAP CHANGES !!
-) XML: New Spezialist: Free citizen (+1 prod, +1 culture)
-) Python: Tribute payment when city plans a revolt
-) XML: some civic changes
-) XML: Ethnic City Styles !!!

 

[Yerand]

Thanks Pie!

 

[dreadknought]

Ton of interesting changes, Im going to try this also, thx

Ok got the mod to run but a couple of the new maps caused a crash when I tried to open them, I figured out to open through the scenario tab and it worked, not sure why I got the error going into the file to open but everything seems to be up and running now.

 

[pie_at]

If you open the szenario files in the explorer, you'll cause an error, because the standard BTS will load them.
those szenarios have to be opened in the loaded mod interface.

 

[dreadknought]

If you open the szenario files in the explorer, you'll cause an error, because the standard BTS will load them.
those szenarios have to be opened in the loaded mod interface.

Got a good game going last nite 14 civs, large map, Epygt, didnt use all war option until I get used to it. Like the mod alot, cool promotions, and the way it centers on your capitol for quite awhile, I have yet to build my 2nd city 2k years in lol. I can tell you carefully planned this to ramp up slowly which is good for these large mods, so that you dont build out tons of cities(not needed) but at the same time there is alot to build out. I like how improvements cost money never seen that implemented before. Will try to play more tonite, Im just now starting to find other civs. Thx again for added defense in cities esp. with the ranged archers.

Also looking at economy civics cant see why anyone would run anything other than decentrilization with the huge drop in maint. costs. I would drop the food bonus from decentrilization and actually add a slight food penalty (-10%), makes sense due to less structured economy. I would add +2 trade routes for free market. Marts I dont really understand but the added maint. costs is a big negative, it needs something, maybe put the 25% food boost on marts.. State property maybe a bonus for the palace since it should feeds revenue to the capitol.

 

[primordial stew]

primordial stew, if there is one mod that I regret the most being unable to play on a mac, then it's your RFRE. If it wasn't using a 48 civ dll., it would probably be possible to deal with some xml loading errors. Just by reading through the features included in RFRE and its scenarios, I immediately know, a symbiosis with PAE of some kind would be a dream!

I started way back when "vanilla" came out, but the 18 civ limit was too restrictive. Now though it might be more manageable by using python to fudge things. Like consider the complete conquest of the Greeks. Historically it was done in parts using alignments with other Greeks until it was all conquered. With fewer Greek civs (and at this scale) it could be something like forcing peace after each city is captured. This would give a nice slow conquest of Greece while only taking up 1 slot

With modular XML + lots of python it sounds like something reasonable could be done. For sure for 200AD+ when there a fewer civs alive. Not sure how well the 275BC - 600AD full campaign would actually work (it doesn't work correctly now due to some changes needed in the DLL...), but shorter scenarios should work just fine.

Does anyone want to create a 200AD map? If so it should be as detailed as possible. Due to good record keeping during the Pax Romana, the size and disposition of the Roman army is well documented. The ratio of auxiliary to legion manpower was 2:1. For RFRE size the scaling was roughly 2:1 (22 legions + 94 aux units in the field army). For PAE scale 4 or 5:1 (10 legions, 40 auxiliaries). From this the size of the Germans, etc can be derived for appropriate balance. Now add in the right buildings + great people to set the economy right and the map is ready to test. No small amount of work to do well!!!!

200-300AD features the Crisis of the 3rd Century. It starts with an economic crisis, state expenses are high so the currency is debased (the coinage method of printing money). Then Gaul+Brittania+Hispania secede, quickly followed by Palmyra. The Germans invade to around Mediolanum, and Goths invade Greece. Plenty of stress on the empire

Extrapolating further then, how about just a series of historical scenarios? Maybe covering 100 year spans and using PAE techs + civs. If modular XML loading works, then more detail can be added.

 

[Red Boxer]

Thanks for the new version PIE! I'm really enjoying the changes.

The text that comes up (not the pop up window) when a city is revolting is kind of messed up. There is a % and something about a 'splash' in there and I think some other words are missing in the sentence.

I've had a repeating CTD in the attached game. I'm not sure what is going one with it, but hopefully you can figure it out.

 

[Keinpferd]

With modular XML + lots of python it sounds like something reasonable could be done. For sure for 200AD+ when there a fewer civs alive. Not sure how well the 275BC - 600AD full campaign would actually work (it doesn't work correctly now due to some changes needed in the DLL...), but shorter scenarios should work just fine.

Does anyone want to create a 200AD map? If so it should be as detailed as possible. Due to good record keeping during the Pax Romana, the size and disposition of the Roman army is well documented. The ratio of auxiliary to legion manpower was 2:1. For RFRE size the scaling was roughly 2:1 (22 legions + 94 aux units in the field army). For PAE scale 4 or 5:1 (10 legions, 40 auxiliaries). From this the size of the Germans, etc can be derived for appropriate balance. Now add in the right buildings + great people to set the economy right and the map is ready to test. No small amount of work to do well!!!!

Any creation of a full grown scenario that would later be discussed here in this thread would easily lead to the question: Well primeordial stew, why didn't you do the scenario? Because you bring together everything that's needed: comprehensive historical database in your head, sense of fitting it to Civ, very refined modding skills, lots and lots of experience also in gameplay and balance issues, knowing how to avoid beginner's traps in scenario design, and on and on.

If say symbiosis, that could mean, Pie would in exchange be modding in his ranged combat or culture-boarder-alteration-by-battle-results features into RFRE? (Okay, no deal here, scenarios are much more work, right.) Anyway, ranged combat is really an improvement to suicide cats. I know there are other mods using ranged combat (archers firing on neighbour plot just to weaken without attacking). But as I understand, Pie figured it out independently (only xml, without dll changes), didn't you Pie? That deserves another , now that with Civ V news, we're made believe ranged combat is going to be some major scientific breakthrough.

 

[OgreProdigy]

Thanks for bringing out the new version, Pie! Just started a game. Quick comments:
#1: Those one-turn revolutions/riots are annoying. The punishments for low happiness and lack of state religion are already severe enough without rioting in the cities to go along with them. It's a plain annoyance, and the in-game system of paying money to the rabble not only requires incredibly high amounts but is unreliable.
#2: 'The people do not splash out of you' is, I believe, a mistranslation, given that I cannot understand what it means.
#3: I like the 'A missionary from <religion> arrives in your city' event, as it helps make up for the severe disadvantages inherent in playing a Civ away from a major religious center.
#4: Decentralization seems a little bit overpowered, given how much cheaper it makes having a large empire and the total lack of disadvantages it possesses.

Edit - #5: Why does the Plague cause an enormous drop in culture? I could understand the city no longer producing it, but why drastic loss instead of merely lack of gain?

Again: Thanks!

 

[Hrafnkell]

I installed the mod, started a game, chose Rome, and as soon as the game window opened up (it was entirely black, showing no terrain or units) a message popped up saying I'd been defeated. Anyone else have this problem?

 

[pie_at]

I am sorry for that delay, I just busy in a new project (without access to internet.....)

@dread: yeah, your arguments sound good! I'll do some changes in that civics (like Ogre said)

@stew: this mod is open for all to create some scenarios!! I am sorry, I don't have the time for this at the moment...

@red boxer: I could have a look at your file tonight...

@Keinpferd: ranged combat: yes, it's XML only (in this mod)

@Ogre: try to avoid revolt. I do not have any. It's simple to say, comparing to eg the revolution mod where you have a city limit of 4 at the beginning. if you break this rule, your empire is gone and you'll find yourself moving lions... even though, I loved this mod!! and I played with the rules.
So, looking out for happiness and health, you won't have any riots! by the way, calculation lies by some %. this hardered version of ruling the world is quite exciting! esp. for new ones
and it IS a mod... not compareable with standard civ anymore.
I'll have a look to the other changeable parts you mentioned, thanks!
#5 plague and culture penalties: plague has a very negative effect in the surroundings. people won't go to the city. at any time. the cities influence shrinks and after plague, deseases or even war, the way of life and culture CAN'T start at the same point it ended. the influence has to reproduce.... I hope you can understand, what I mean.

@hrafnkell: did you download the full version? (about 132mb unzipped) did you load the mod with BTS -> More/Extended -> Load Mod -> Pie's Ancient Europe ?

 

[Hrafnkell]

Thanks, Pie, turned out I was loading it the wrong way. I got it to work. Guess I better read through the entire thread because I notice my worker can't perform any functions, including building a far even after discovering farming, or mining after discovering mining. I must be missing something.

By the way, the link needs to be fixed - it says hhttp instead of http so clicking on it doesn't work.

 

[Hrafnkell]

I have another question: Is it common to have every warrior or basket archer you send out to explore eaten by wild animals? I've lost five in this way - every unit I've sent out, even ones that had gained promotions and had defensive and offensive bonuses.