Pie's Ancient Europe

[mourndraken]

Hi Pie.

I believe the plauge buzzards are from many of their scenarios.

Fall of the Roman Empire has it. Mesoamerica as well ..

 

[pie_at]

thx, I'll have a look...

 

[Kranden]

Maybe roads a little sooner too, roads feel they come soo late.

 

[pie_at]

roads? they are very soon. the first really named roads, which was not a path, have been roman roads. I just added the normal roads from spoke wheels on. because without roads till 400 BC trading features wouldn't work and it would be annoying... indeed.

besides, when you have two or three cities, you have researched the tech
it's clear: would you build a road between two cities, or just for fun into the pampa?

 

[Lord Drake]

Great! Just the kind of scenario I was looking for!

 

[SheaD]

It isn't working for me at all. I load the mod up and then its the same old screen and same old civics. The only difference is that in the start menu it now says "Pie's ancient europe mod" in the top right corner.

 

[pie_at]

? that's crazy. BTS 3.19? Loaded the mod from the Advanced Option from BTS? Check your download version. It should have about 50 mb unpacked....

 

[The_J]

That's typicall for the "double folder" problem.
Check, if in the folder for pie's ancient europe is an assets folder. If not, and there's again a folder with the same name, then take everything from the second folder and copy it into the first folder.

 

[SheaD]

That's typicall for the "double folder" problem.
Check, if in the folder for pie's ancient europe is an assets folder. If not, and there's again a folder with the same name, then take everything from the second folder and copy it into the first folder.

The assets folder is there, it seems complete.

Yes, I am using BTS 3.19 and the folder is over 50mb unpacked

 

[Keinpferd]

Briefly, I'd like to summarize a topic we had in the german development thread to maybe hear some non german speaker's ideas.

In Pie's Ancient Europe, the tech tree, much according to late ancient history, comes to an end. That means, nothing left to research, no more buildings to built, no paratroopers posing, or mechandroids from the toy shelf. While you're winning, you need something fun to do, that, at the same time, adds to historical accuracy and isn't too complicated.

So why not adopt the Corporations of Civ and assign Sid's Sushi Co., Aluminum Inc., et cetera, the role of one of the mystery cults of late antiquity, such as Mithras, Isis or Manichaeism. Instead of the executives, cult missionaries will be sent out who work exactly the same way expanding the new cult, providing boni to a city, maximizing the income of a commercial city or letting a rival bleed financially.

Unlike religions, that are passed by parents unto their children as a public duty of all individuals, these mystery cults are adopted by adults, who aren't satisfied with their official religions, and that are practiced in the obscure. Different religions affect diplo and cause war, mystery cults don't.

Pie's first draft was:
-) Horus cult (Egyptians, with Egypt. Gods): +1 , +1, +1
-) Totenkult (Egyptians, 2500 BC): +2
-) Schamanism* (Huns, 2500 BC): +1, +1
-) Matriarchalism (everybody, 2000 BC): +2
-) Demeter cult (Greeks, 1300 BC): +2
-) Mithras cult (Persians, mit Bündnisse): +1, +1, +1
-) Heroic cult (Greeks, 700 BC): +1 und +[no smilie for this, what does it mean again?] ?
-) Cosmogonisms (everybody, with Philosophy): +2
-) Hellenism (Greeks, 300 BC): +1, +1

*With the huns gone in the next update, adieu Schamanism.

Mine:
1. Horus – Heliopolis (with Egypt. Gods, with quest* 100 AD): +3 und +1 per used ressource, consumes precious metal ressources and stone-ressources
2. Isis – Heliopolis (with Egypt. Gods, with quest 100 AD): +3 und +0.75 per used ressource, consumes (land) food ressources
3. Serapis – Memphis (with Hellenism, with quest 300 BC): +1.5 und +0.5 per used ressource, consumes (water-) food ressources
4. Dionysos – Thebes in Greece (with Olympian Gods, 600 BC): +4 und +0.5 per used ressource, consumes wine
5. Kybele – Anatolia (with Ackerbau, with quest 100 AD): +1 und +2 per used ressource, consumes mineral and stone ressources
6. Mani – Seleucia on the Tigris (Perser, with quest 270 AD): +6 und -0.5 per used ressource, consumes precious metals und minerals
7. Mithras – Southern Turkey (with Professional Soldiers, with quest 100 AD): +2, +10 experience for new units in the city per used ressource, consumes iron and bronze.

I'm not getting into translating where the discussion took from there, so you get a chance to unbiased opinions. Any?

*with quest: in addition to researching the required technology and owning the necessary ressource and having the appropriate specialist (in this case, priest) to found the Corporation, you would have to settle at the particular place where the cult historically emerged, pretty much the same way as the "holy mountain quest" in Civ.

 

[Taneda Santôka]

Wow, good ideas. It looks operational and fun.
But like you said, end game is pretty much a walk in the park, so corporations are nice, but superficial : even when role-playing and taking my time, I don't play that far usually. What would be good, you'll see what I mean if you've played EU:Rome, is a rebelling system : this way you can use the "colony" system for a too big empire, I mean really too big, like the size of the WRE or ERE, and give that monster with no competition some trouble : instant shift of cities and rise of big professional armies under the banner of the defying ruler, not just pesky insurgents.

 

[Keinpferd]

I only know EU, not EU Rome. Do you mean, EU Rome has a rebellion system that could be modelled after, or are you just asking for a rebellion system in general? Because Pie is working on parts of a rebellion system, I'm sure he's open to ideas.

 

[timelord89]

Is this mod supposed to be multiplayer friendly or not? Anything with the ranged attack makes me, nervous of an OOS.

 

[pie_at]

it is completely mulitplayer friendly.... I love to play MP with my friends, so this was (IS) a very important thing for me.

 

[blacknight678]

Lots of fun! Thanks for the great mod.

Found a few issues (I think):

- Animals are not animals (so scout doesn't get a combat bonus).
- Civic help/strategy text has not been updated. When I got access to Council of Elders I received the descriptive text for Vassalage promising me bonus xp for my units.
- The AI is very reluctant to trade tech with the player. Is this intentional, and are they similarly reluctant to trade with other AIs?
- A change log when updating the download would be nice.
- It took the AI a long time to build a palace. Does this need a higher weight?

 

[pie_at]

Lots of fun! Thanks for the great mod.

Found a few issues (I think):

- Animals are not animals (so scout doesn't get a combat bonus).
- Civic help/strategy text has not been updated. When I got access to Council of Elders I received the descriptive text for Vassalage promising me bonus xp for my units.
- The AI is very reluctant to trade tech with the player. Is this intentional, and are they similarly reluctant to trade with other AIs?
- A change log when updating the download would be nice.
- It took the AI a long time to build a palace. Does this need a higher weight?

thx blacknight

- animals: I'll try to fix that
- civic strategy: thx, they'll get updated
- AI is reluctant: no clue, should be standard
- change log: ok, I'll add.
- Palace: I'll try to fix that. AIWeight is 10 but iAsset was 0 and had no flavors!

 

[OgreProdigy]

First off: This is a very fun mod. I enjoyed playing it quite a lot, and I thought a number of the mechanics were very interesting and original.

Second, I noticed a few things that were off. First, the civilizations are very unbalanced. Those who have access to one of the 'Medicine' techs are at a major edge, and there's also pretty considerable benefits to those who get Axemen or Composite Bowmen. Also, what units you get are extremely limited in the late-game, with most civilizations having only one or maybe two units with Power 7+.

Third, Christianity reducing scientific input compared to the earlier religions is mildly absurd. Many technological advances took place in monasteries, and the technological stagnation that many associate with religion is more a product of modern times than anything else, and was assuredly not limited to one faith.

Fourth was just that by switching from cavalry to infantry, you can get melee types Flanking and horsemen City Raider. Not sure if that's intentional or not.

Fifth was the extremely limited promotion options. Normal Civilization follows the basic policy of allowing all units to promote into the next unit that shows up that's strictly better than them. In Ancient Europe, by contrast, those who don't get Axemen are going to have their Poleaxe Warriors unable to promote, and by the end-game, similarly so for nearly all other units.

Sixth was another small one: Running the High Priests civic, which as best I can tell means that your civilization is theocratic, has the interesting effect of actually rewarding you for bringing more religions into your land.

Seventh was just that the game had a tendency to be decided early. By around halfway, though, either I'd been crushed horrifically by my enemies, or I'd ended up in control of half again as much land as my next best rival (Who was usually Brennus) and the rest was just cleanup, even though there was still more than half the world left unconquered. It might or might not be worth reducing the land and population required for a Domination victory, given the lack of practical alternatives.

Again: I thought the mod was a lot of fun, and played it until my eyes bled. These were just a few things I thought were off.

 

[pie_at]

First off: This is a very fun mod. I enjoyed playing it quite a lot, and I thought a number of the mechanics were very interesting and original.

Second, I noticed a few things that were off. First, the civilizations are very unbalanced. Those who have access to one of the 'Medicine' techs are at a major edge, and there's also pretty considerable benefits to those who get Axemen or Composite Bowmen. Also, what units you get are extremely limited in the late-game, with most civilizations having only one or maybe two units with Power 7+.

Third, Christianity reducing scientific input compared to the earlier religions is mildly absurd. Many technological advances took place in monasteries, and the technological stagnation that many associate with religion is more a product of modern times than anything else, and was assuredly not limited to one faith.

Fourth was just that by switching from cavalry to infantry, you can get melee types Flanking and horsemen City Raider. Not sure if that's intentional or not.

Fifth was the extremely limited promotion options. Normal Civilization follows the basic policy of allowing all units to promote into the next unit that shows up that's strictly better than them. In Ancient Europe, by contrast, those who don't get Axemen are going to have their Poleaxe Warriors unable to promote, and by the end-game, similarly so for nearly all other units.

Sixth was another small one: Running the High Priests civic, which as best I can tell means that your civilization is theocratic, has the interesting effect of actually rewarding you for bringing more religions into your land.

Seventh was just that the game had a tendency to be decided early. By around halfway, though, either I'd been crushed horrifically by my enemies, or I'd ended up in control of half again as much land as my next best rival (Who was usually Brennus) and the rest was just cleanup, even though there was still more than half the world left unconquered. It might or might not be worth reducing the land and population required for a Domination victory, given the lack of practical alternatives.

Again: I thought the mod was a lot of fun, and played it until my eyes bled. These were just a few things I thought were off.

hi ogre, thx for your statements!

2) this is intended. some civs shall be stronger in early times but weaker in later times... like its original. some civs should be harder to play, the others more easy. if you play the greeks or romans, you won't have that trouble like if you play the huns (inthe next update: the scyths or dacians). An ingame difficulty level

3) it won't be so hard with the new update coming soon. but the monasteries DID bunker greek and roman chain scheme technologies in their catacombs...

4) there is no possible way to hide a promotion. so if I delete one, it would be worse.

5) yeah. there are no historical "new" units written down in history like how could units develope, when the romans did not enslave them... I just put the most popular units in there and because the mod ends in ancient times, they won't develope anymore.

6) ups will be changed

7) Brennus was a hard opponent for the romans! so in the early times, the gauls are a strong CIV but as I said in point 2: the gauls will stop in the classical era while the romans will gain very strong units to conquer the ancient world....

----
wait till the next upate will come... this will eclipse this version.... promised!

 

[dreadknought]

Hey, I just checked back and Im still around wonting to try the version with the tough city defenses, that should make the ai tougher as well. It would be interesting to nerf the seige damages as well so that overwhelming with catapults ect. would be tough, will check back again

 

[OgreProdigy]

@Pie: Thanks for all your responses! But the point I'm making with #5 is really a gameplay concern, not a flavor one, and it is that it is more than mildly disconcerting for your Great General and his six level five axewarriors to be entirely useless after the early game because you happened to be playing the Greeks, given that this contrasts strongly with normal Civilization.

Might I suggest the possibility that veteran soldiers could be 'settled' or 'retired' as citizens, workers, or perhaps exhibition fighters? I don't know that this would work, but it's something to think about.

And I eagerly anticipate the next update, I assure you.