Player stats, sales, and reception speculation thread

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The reception staying the same despite multiple updates isn’t news?
Ok, I probably formulated it bad. My points are:

1. Staying the same and following trend are different things. For example, losing players after release follows the same curve for most of the games, so if Civ7 follows it (as I see, it does), it follows the trend, even though the number doesn't stay the same.

2. The question was about good and bad news. In my book, good news are if things go better than expected, bad news - if they go worse than expected. If we look at expectations set during first week, Civ7 performs as expected, in the data we have. That's why I say that there are no good or bad news.

To be clear, by news I didn’t mean “a thing that has changed recently” but news articles, to go with any potential data.
I actually seen a lot of positive news articles after both big patches and after Sukritact was hired.

Journalists need some story to tell and there were no big negative triggers after launch week, while there were those positive triggers. So, this tells nothing about game being actually good or bad.
 
I love how can you tell which games / genres are firmly in the past and who is biding time in a monopoly and which games / genres are highly competitive with tons of innovation.

If you look at Hero shooters, it was stagnant for many years with very little that could rival Overwatch. Then came out Marvel Rivals which was better in every way. Now the real competition has brought Blizzard back to actually putting in effort with OW.

For us this is Civilisation. They have barely any competition and really they honestly put in the bare minimum. They get really mediocre competition in the likes of HK, Millennia etc etc (with some good ideas but not quite There yet).

But what they don't have is that genre defining competitor that OW got.

Competition is high with RPGs that's why you see them really try to outdo each other in likes of Baldur's Gate, and this year we have Clair Obscure. Some years ago we had Divinity Original Sin and Elden Ring!!

So like some genres get bangers and innovation every year and some genres get milquetoast junk
 
I love how can you tell which games / genres are firmly in the past and who is biding time in a monopoly and which games / genres are highly competitive with tons of innovation.

If you look at Hero shooters, it was stagnant for many years with very little that could rival Overwatch. Then came out Marvel Rivals which was better in every way. Now the real competition has brought Blizzard back to actually putting in effort with OW.

For us this is Civilisation. They have barely any competition and really they honestly put in the bare minimum. They get really mediocre competition in the likes of HK, Millennia etc etc (with some good ideas but not quite There yet).

But what they don't have is that genre defining competitor that OW got.

Competition is high with RPGs that's why you see them really try to outdo each other in likes of Baldur's Gate, and this year we have Clair Obscure. Some years ago we had Divinity Original Sin and Elden Ring!!

So like some genres get bangers and innovation every year and some genres get milquetoast junk
Overwatch and Overwatch 2 had been dying way before Marvel Rivals came out. You could probably make a case that games like Valorant and Apex Legends, rather, were its competitors and took its market share.

And Elden Ring isn't exactly an RPG. It doesn't really compete in the same space.

And why are Paradox 4X games omitted as Civ's competitors? Not to mention Civ7 clearly innovated. You may not like what they did with it, but boy did they try something different.
 
Overwatch and Overwatch 2 had been dying way before Marvel Rivals came out. You could probably make a case that games like Valorant and Apex Legends, rather, were its competitors and took its market share.

And Elden Ring isn't exactly an RPG. It doesn't really compete in the same space.

And why are Paradox 4X games omitted as Civ's competitors? Not to mention Civ7 clearly innovated. You may not like what they did with it, but boy did they try something different.
Well you're right, yes, but Val is more of a CS competitor and Apex is more of a Fortnite competitor, if I understand correctly. OW was 'dying' yes, but the point is the innovation didn't come until a pure competitor like MR threatened to kill them entirely.

About Paradox, I mentioned Millennia. I hear they made some other 'grand strategy' games but those are not in the same direct genre as Civilisation, which caters to a wide casual audience via its easy to understand gameplay.

Civ7 did innovate, but what it did is try something new, it didn't actually increase the quality of the product.
In other words, yes, the game plays differently now which is an innovation in a way, but it's not a strictly higher quality product.

Why? Well besides the obvious stuff like UI, QOL and Balancing. We have no "standout" features. For example, my favourite part of Civ is immersing myself in the colours and sounds (the atmosphere if you will) of History.
But these games have no way for me to zoom into my city and enjoy the people walking around and going about their business in the Empire that I built?

You could city zoom in older games. You could view and build your palace. Your advisors literally talked to you! You could customise and have fun. These features aren't gameplay and they aren't 'important' but they are that cherry on top that I miss.

And this isn't nostalgia talking, because I never played those games until recently. So this is the innovation I'm talking about.
 
I just did a quick search for "civ 7" on YouTube and there are a bunch of videos at the top praising patch 1.2. I call that good news.
Not accurate information IMO.



Older ones (and there are dozens of these, the creators aren't doing civ 7 vids anymore so you're not going to get much new negative opinion anymore):



Spiffing Brit hasn't done a Civ 7 video in a long time. Potato has drifted away. Boesthius is MIA.

Ursa, Potato and One More Turn have all done "Wow this 1.20 patch changes everything whao this is so fun now guyz". Feels very forced to me, like a last ditched good faith effort to support enthusiasm for a game their careers half depend on. Well Ursa doesn't feel forced, but that's because he seems like a generally happy go lucky guy.

My point is, can we stop just lying about this and stop acting like the stark reality of the state of the game is disinformation or doomscrolling or something? Firaxis needs to apologize and heavily update the game just to get back to the starting line. Otherwise, the way things are, the game is over. They cannot save a pattering of a few fixes for a paid expansion. My opinion, but a disinterested unbiased analysis that doesn't reflect my preferences: the game will fail if the community and developers both don't admit that the launch was a failure and turning it around requires massive work.

Little nitpicks on what sales figures really imply, or whether a minor growth scaling update is a big deal or not are perfectly fine discussions, but jeez, let's look at reality here. All I'm saying.

Wasn't going to comment this but I saw this point that "the only creator videos out there right now are really positive" and it was far too incredulous a proposition I just couldn't stay silent.

Some top comments from the 1.20 update dev video on YT:

"I still don't understand how they added floods from Civ 6 but didn't add dams to counter them"

"The absence of some of these features at release is baffling when you consider that Civ isn't a brand new game in a brand new franchise. This development team had a blueprint refined by half a dozen entries over twice as many years to crib from. And not only are staple features missing, but the entire game barely resembles the entries we know and love. I really would love to see an interview with some insight into the design philosophy of this game because I consider it a misstep"

"There are so many basic things missing from this game that's its simply unethical to charge $140 for a game not remotely close to finished."

"You added basic things back and act like you did something. Game is still unfinished and terrible, months after the release. I wish I could get my money back."

"As someone who hasn't bought 7 yet this seems like an awful lot of fixes rather than updates which makes me think my choice to hold off for a couple of years until the game is actually finished was the right one. Can't believe they've been charging so much money for a game that was so unbaked."

"I'm old enough to remember when games were released in a finished state, rather than releasing a broken mess and then somehow gaining clout with the playerbase by gradually making it release-ready over the next few years."

"I would like to let everybody know Firaxis is censoring comments. They just released a video 2 hours ago but then took it down because of the backlash.Here is what I typed: 'I am glad you are getting all the backlash Firaxis. It's kind of deserved based off your tone deafness. It's kind of satire that Ed Beech is still running the studio when y'all fired Jake Solomon. His team poured heart and soul into Midnight Suns, and he was key piece for the Xcom franchise. I truly hope Sid can find Venture Capital to regain control of his founding studio from Take-Two before they ruin your developer anymore. If y'all had just done an honest dev blog and came out and said "Hey community, we are sorry. We messed up. We didn't listen to our Q&A players, we ignored them. We haven't listened to your feedback. You deserve better as a community, longtime fans and consumers. We will make sure to do better on our next game and will work hard over the next few months to do you justice. To sweeten the deal or apologize to all players and fans, we are going to change our pricing and DLC release for a temporary time because we owe it to you.' or at least some half-baked PR speech, you wouldn't receive all the backlash you have. How sad the mighty have fallen."

"I’d like to thank Civ VII for forcing me to buy Civ VI."


Anyway, I'm trying to contribute some substantive content that demonstrates the what and why of negative community sentiment. There's still this sense of incredulity at the notion that there's a problem here, so in between discussing sales figures, let's just make sure we have the context behind the sentiment driven the outcome we're analyzing.
 
Not accurate information IMO.



Older ones (and there are dozens of these, the creators aren't doing civ 7 vids anymore so you're not going to get much new negative opinion anymore):



Spiffing Brit hasn't done a Civ 7 video in a long time. Potato has drifted away. Boesthius is MIA.

Ursa, Potato and One More Turn have all done "Wow this 1.20 patch changes everything whao this is so fun now guyz". Feels very forced to me, like a last ditched good faith effort to support enthusiasm for a game their careers half depend on. Well Ursa doesn't feel forced, but that's because he seems like a generally happy go lucky guy.

My point is, can we stop just lying about this and stop acting like the stark reality of the state of the game is disinformation or doomscrolling or something? Firaxis needs to apologize and heavily update the game just to get back to the starting line. Otherwise, the way things are, the game is over. They cannot save a pattering of a few fixes for a paid expansion. My opinion, but a disinterested unbiased analysis that doesn't reflect my preferences: the game will fail if the community and developers both don't admit that the launch was a failure and turning it around requires massive work.

Little nitpicks on what sales figures really imply, or whether a minor growth scaling update is a big deal or not are perfectly fine discussions, but jeez, let's look at reality here. All I'm saying.

Wasn't going to comment this but I saw this point that "the only creator videos out there right now are really positive" and it was far too incredulous a proposition I just couldn't stay silent.

Some top comments from the 1.20 update dev video on YT:

"I still don't understand how they added floods from Civ 6 but didn't add dams to counter them"

"The absence of some of these features at release is baffling when you consider that Civ isn't a brand new game in a brand new franchise. This development team had a blueprint refined by half a dozen entries over twice as many years to crib from. And not only are staple features missing, but the entire game barely resembles the entries we know and love. I really would love to see an interview with some insight into the design philosophy of this game because I consider it a misstep"

"There are so many basic things missing from this game that's its simply unethical to charge $140 for a game not remotely close to finished."

"You added basic things back and act like you did something. Game is still unfinished and terrible, months after the release. I wish I could get my money back."

"As someone who hasn't bought 7 yet this seems like an awful lot of fixes rather than updates which makes me think my choice to hold off for a couple of years until the game is actually finished was the right one. Can't believe they've been charging so much money for a game that was so unbaked."

"I'm old enough to remember when games were released in a finished state, rather than releasing a broken mess and then somehow gaining clout with the playerbase by gradually making it release-ready over the next few years."

"I would like to let everybody know Firaxis is censoring comments. They just released a video 2 hours ago but then took it down because of the backlash.Here is what I typed: 'I am glad you are getting all the backlash Firaxis. It's kind of deserved based off your tone deafness. It's kind of satire that Ed Beech is still running the studio when y'all fired Jake Solomon. His team poured heart and soul into Midnight Suns, and he was key piece for the Xcom franchise. I truly hope Sid can find Venture Capital to regain control of his founding studio from Take-Two before they ruin your developer anymore. If y'all had just done an honest dev blog and came out and said "Hey community, we are sorry. We messed up. We didn't listen to our Q&A players, we ignored them. We haven't listened to your feedback. You deserve better as a community, longtime fans and consumers. We will make sure to do better on our next game and will work hard over the next few months to do you justice. To sweeten the deal or apologize to all players and fans, we are going to change our pricing and DLC release for a temporary time because we owe it to you.' or at least some half-baked PR speech, you wouldn't receive all the backlash you have. How sad the mighty have fallen."

"I’d like to thank Civ VII for forcing me to buy Civ VI."


Anyway, I'm trying to contribute some substantive content that demonstrates the what and why of negative community sentiment. There's still this sense of incredulity at the notion that there's a problem here, so in between discussing sales figures, let's just make sure we have the context behind the sentiment driven the outcome we're analyzing.

I saw what I saw in my YouTube search, and I don't appreciate being accused of spreading inaccuracy. Everyone's algorithm is different.
 
Focusing on videos which appear on your search (affected by algorithm) and validating your point, while dismissing videos which go against your opinion as "forced". I don't think it proves anything.

The question was about good press received by Civ7 recently and @MutilationWave correctly pointed out that there were many positive videos. Dismissing those videos doesn't make his point invalid.
 
And why are Paradox 4X games omitted as Civ's competitors? Not to mention Civ7 clearly innovated. You may not like what they did with it, but boy did they try something different.

I have never played one. I guess I thought they were more simulators than 4X? Totally open to being wrong. Which one would you guys recommend? Any particular mods I should try?
 
I have never played one. I guess I thought they were more simulators than 4X? Totally open to being wrong. Which one would you guys recommend? Any particular mods I should try?
Depends on what you're wanting. I would say that they sort of go in a spectrum from simulator to 4X. I would say Hearts of Iron is the furthest toward the simulator end of the spectrum. Stellaris is probably furthest on the 4X end of the spectrum. Crusader Kings is a fun hybrid between a grand strategy game and an RPG and I wouldn't say that it is a 4X game. But, if you're a fan of Game of Thrones, you'd probably like it (it has an incredible mod called AGOT, which puts you in that world).

For someone coming from Civ, I would probably recommend Stellaris or EU4. I personally prefer Stellaris between the two. I'm not a big mod person, but if you're into Star Trek, Stellaris has the excellent Star Trek: New Horizons mod.
 
Depends on what you're wanting. I would say that they sort of go in a spectrum from simulator to 4X. I would say Hearts of Iron is the furthest toward the simulator end of the spectrum. Stellaris is probably furthest on the 4X end of the spectrum. Crusader Kings is a fun hybrid between a grand strategy game and an RPG and I wouldn't say that it is a 4X game. But, if you're a fan of Game of Thrones, you'd probably like it (it has an incredible mod called AGOT, which puts you in that world).

For someone coming from Civ, I would probably recommend Stellaris or EU4. I personally prefer Stellaris between the two. I'm not a big mod person, but if you're into Star Trek, Stellaris has the excellent Star Trek: New Horizons mod.

Thanks! I've read all the ASOIAF books and I love ST Next Generation. I'll probably be looking into Stellaris once I'm ready to give civ a break. Any good forum like this for the game or is the reddit one the best?
 
Thanks! I've read all the ASOIAF books and I love ST Next Generation. I'll probably be looking into Stellaris once I'm ready to give civ a break. Any good forum like this for the game or is the reddit one the best?
I'd just do the Paradox forums. They have sections for each of their games there.
 
Big questionmark: Why Civ VII is not on Gamepass???

I have watched some E33 videos, and there's plenty of people that says that after they played it on Gamepass, they went straight to Steam and bough it.
Maybe they were bots, idk. If I can play or "rent" a game on Gamepass for one month for 11$... and the game can be finished in less then a month...
Why would I run buying it off Steam immediately... anyway... I went checking the Gamepass library and Civ VII isn't present...
 
Big questionmark: Why Civ VII is not on Gamepass???

I have watched some E33 videos, and there's plenty of people that says that after they played it on Gamepass, they went straight to Steam and bough it.
Maybe they were bots, idk. If I can play or "rent" a game on Gamepass for one month for 11$... and the game can be finished in less then a month...
Why would I run buying it off Steam immediately... anyway... I went checking the Gamepass library and Civ VII isn't present...

Greed I would guess🤷‍♂️
 
About Paradox, I mentioned Millennia. I hear they made some other 'grand strategy' games but those are not in the same direct genre as Civilisation, which caters to a wide casual audience via its easy to understand gameplay.
My bad, I mixed up who made the Endless series, which are frequently mentioned by 4X gamers as competitors to Civ. But Paradox did also make Stellaris.
Civ7 did innovate, but what it did is try something new, it didn't actually increase the quality of the product.
In other words, yes, the game plays differently now which is an innovation in a way, but it's not a strictly higher quality product.

Why? Well besides the obvious stuff like UI, QOL and Balancing. We have no "standout" features. For example, my favourite part of Civ is immersing myself in the colours and sounds (the atmosphere if you will) of History.
But these games have no way for me to zoom into my city and enjoy the people walking around and going about their business in the Empire that I built?

You could city zoom in older games. You could view and build your palace. Your advisors literally talked to you! You could customise and have fun. These features aren't gameplay and they aren't 'important' but they are that cherry on top that I miss.

And this isn't nostalgia talking, because I never played those games until recently. So this is the innovation I'm talking about.
This quality talk seems highly subjective.
 
Not accurate information IMO.



Older ones (and there are dozens of these, the creators aren't doing civ 7 vids anymore so you're not going to get much new negative opinion anymore):



Spiffing Brit hasn't done a Civ 7 video in a long time. Potato has drifted away. Boesthius is MIA.

Ursa, Potato and One More Turn have all done "Wow this 1.20 patch changes everything whao this is so fun now guyz". Feels very forced to me, like a last ditched good faith effort to support enthusiasm for a game their careers half depend on. Well Ursa doesn't feel forced, but that's because he seems like a generally happy go lucky guy.

My point is, can we stop just lying about this and stop acting like the stark reality of the state of the game is disinformation or doomscrolling or something? Firaxis needs to apologize and heavily update the game just to get back to the starting line. Otherwise, the way things are, the game is over. They cannot save a pattering of a few fixes for a paid expansion. My opinion, but a disinterested unbiased analysis that doesn't reflect my preferences: the game will fail if the community and developers both don't admit that the launch was a failure and turning it around requires massive work.

Little nitpicks on what sales figures really imply, or whether a minor growth scaling update is a big deal or not are perfectly fine discussions, but jeez, let's look at reality here. All I'm saying.

Wasn't going to comment this but I saw this point that "the only creator videos out there right now are really positive" and it was far too incredulous a proposition I just couldn't stay silent.

Some top comments from the 1.20 update dev video on YT:

"I still don't understand how they added floods from Civ 6 but didn't add dams to counter them"

"The absence of some of these features at release is baffling when you consider that Civ isn't a brand new game in a brand new franchise. This development team had a blueprint refined by half a dozen entries over twice as many years to crib from. And not only are staple features missing, but the entire game barely resembles the entries we know and love. I really would love to see an interview with some insight into the design philosophy of this game because I consider it a misstep"

"There are so many basic things missing from this game that's its simply unethical to charge $140 for a game not remotely close to finished."

"You added basic things back and act like you did something. Game is still unfinished and terrible, months after the release. I wish I could get my money back."

"As someone who hasn't bought 7 yet this seems like an awful lot of fixes rather than updates which makes me think my choice to hold off for a couple of years until the game is actually finished was the right one. Can't believe they've been charging so much money for a game that was so unbaked."

"I'm old enough to remember when games were released in a finished state, rather than releasing a broken mess and then somehow gaining clout with the playerbase by gradually making it release-ready over the next few years."

"I would like to let everybody know Firaxis is censoring comments. They just released a video 2 hours ago but then took it down because of the backlash.Here is what I typed: 'I am glad you are getting all the backlash Firaxis. It's kind of deserved based off your tone deafness. It's kind of satire that Ed Beech is still running the studio when y'all fired Jake Solomon. His team poured heart and soul into Midnight Suns, and he was key piece for the Xcom franchise. I truly hope Sid can find Venture Capital to regain control of his founding studio from Take-Two before they ruin your developer anymore. If y'all had just done an honest dev blog and came out and said "Hey community, we are sorry. We messed up. We didn't listen to our Q&A players, we ignored them. We haven't listened to your feedback. You deserve better as a community, longtime fans and consumers. We will make sure to do better on our next game and will work hard over the next few months to do you justice. To sweeten the deal or apologize to all players and fans, we are going to change our pricing and DLC release for a temporary time because we owe it to you.' or at least some half-baked PR speech, you wouldn't receive all the backlash you have. How sad the mighty have fallen."

"I’d like to thank Civ VII for forcing me to buy Civ VI."


Anyway, I'm trying to contribute some substantive content that demonstrates the what and why of negative community sentiment. There's still this sense of incredulity at the notion that there's a problem here, so in between discussing sales figures, let's just make sure we have the context behind the sentiment driven the outcome we're analyzing.
Is your argument from now on going to be that everyone who says good things about the game is being untruthful?

And what happened to the last hurrah?
 
Is your argument from now on going to be that everyone who says good things about the game is being untruthful?

And what happened to the last hurrah?
It's called confirmation bias, and it seems that those who defend this release are just as guilty as those who critique it. The problem is that without any constructive criticism this release is going to wallow even further into mediocrity. Personally, I think the fundamental design of the game is broken and it I dont think they will fix it because they would need to acknowledge their mistakes.
 
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