Please Sid - NO DLC

[Yakk]

Maybe I'm unusual here, but I don't see why you would want to mod that way for anything other than "add in civ x" type mods. IMO big mods should edit copies of the original files in the mod's folder.

Add in civx.
Change civx.
Add in unitx.
Change unitx.
Change game rules (like tech spread, etc).

My personal mod adds a bunch of new animals, changes a bunch of unit balance, etc. Having a complete copy of an XML file that includes things I don't change seems like a bad idea to me -- no need for redundant data, because if it changes, I'll have to support it.

Instead, I support changes only to the units/rules/etc I change, and use the "upstream" mod (in my case, BetterAI) for everything else. If we both change something and I don't notice their change, I override theirs silently (which is less than ideal, but what can you do!).

Now, if you are reaching the point where you completely rebuild the tech tree, this isn't practical.

But even there, you can do things like keep individual units as mini-mods that you patch together into a full mod. This only works to a limited extent, because civ4s modular XML loading still has issues, but ...

 

[Duuk]

With what is currently in Civ4, you can ship a civilisation as a "self contained" set of directories, right now, that can be drag-and-dropped into another modular mod and appear in the game.

No you can't. Audio defines doesn't load from modules properly.

Also, modular religions is a plain impossibility due to the fonts.tga file. This also goes for resources/bonuses.

 

[TC01]

No you can't. Audio defines doesn't load from modules properly.

Also, modular religions is a plain impossibility due to the fonts.tga file. This also goes for resources/bonuses.

That is definitely one thing I hope Civ V doesn't have. It would have been so much more convenient if they used a <Font> tag in the XML.

Although since Bonuses have a <FontButtonIndex> in BTS (letting you choose which graphic in the gamefonts.tga file is used), modular bonuses are possible- although not with new "fonts".

In the same vein, you can add new civs without adding audio defines to get them to work as modules.


Hopefully Civ V has something more like the WoC modular loading system.

 

[The_J]

The WOC system would sure appear confusing to noob modders, i think :/.


What scares me now: With the semi confirmation of only one leader per civ, we'll probably get DLC .
A good 3D modell with custom sound, custom animations, etc. is sure something, which the modding artists will sure not be able to produce in the first half year (my guess).
I'm sure, they'll release a bunch of second or third leaders for every civ in this time.

 

[OwieB2003]

I wouldn't mind DLC if it were something like £2.99/$4.99 for a civ-pack of 10-20 civs and their related units, buildings, and art styles; or a era-pack which added in, say, an "official" future era with walker mechs and the like. Don't want the stuff, don't download. What I do not want is Dragon Age: Origins or Assassin's Creed II-styled DRM on the DLC. I don't want to play this game with the DLC added and then find myself staring at a dialog box that popped up saying if I wanted to continue playing the game, I'd need to reconnect to the Internet, just because someone tripped over the cable or turned the microwave on.

 

[deanej]

I wouldn't mind DLC (if fairly priced) if it weren't for the fact that I don't see how it can be done without hurting modding.

 

[Disgustipated]

I hate DLC. Dragon Age is one of my favourite new games, but I have not paid for any dlc. It seems to be little value for the price you are paying. The price is low, but all those $5 add up quickly! surpassing the price of the game itself.

I would be happy with what they did with civ4. Main game- 2 expansions. It's a proven formula that worked well in the past. Why deviate from this?

 

[The_J]

I wouldn't mind DLC (if fairly priced) if it weren't for the fact that I don't see how it can be done without hurting modding.

Hey, it's done in MP shooters all the day .
I don't see the problem, how it should not be possible, that one player plays with a civ, which another one doesn't have.
In MP shooters, the players have different weapons. It's the same.

It you play with DLC, it would maybe need a central server, with to checks with a checksum for the original game files and the DLC, to confirm, that both are original, unmodified files.
Should not be a problem at all.

 

[deanej]

I was talking about modding, not multiplayer.

 

[The_J]

Sorry, thought you've been talking about MP problems with DLC.

But just for modding, you're right, that could become a problem.

 

[NBAfan]

How can they take the DLC path if they are saying Civ 5 will be very moddable?

 

[Duuk]

How can they take the DLC path if they are saying Civ 5 will be very moddable?

Read this thread.

Short answer: Just because BobbyFan can make a user mod version of Poland as a civ doesn't mean that people wouldn't pay $3 for a Firaxis-released Poland that is fully functional.

 

[Disgustipated]

yes see Neverwinter Nights 1. The game was highly moddable, that was its selling point. But they also released dlc (which was relatively new at the time, at least for Bioware). The selling point is the content made by developers is generally of superior quality and has things like voice acting.

 

[kivanc]

very few of gamers are interested in mods.
most gamers (especially college students) download the games for free so don't pay any money. and the guys who are more willing to pay for the game generally work all day and can't play the game that much. so they don't want to waste their afternoon free time on surfing the net for the game. they prefer playing it. most of them aren't aware of any mods done by fansite posters. they can just click "check update" in the game starting menu and download the last official patch.
i am unusual on this matter because i can surf my fansite all day while working

well, this situation has begone to change when some games have started to succeed blocking cracked games to work properly. fifa manager 2009 did that very successfully.

but after all, i am not that much pessimistic about civ5 to expect DLCs.

 

[Chalks]

very few of gamers are interested in mods.

I would say that in the case of civilization, this is absolutely untrue.

 

[Duuk]

I would say that in the case of civilization, this is absolutely untrue.

I would say you're incorrect and using the forum as a basis for assumptions, which I've shown in this thread to be a faulty assumption.

The most popular mods (like BUG) have about 300k downloads. Assuming that every single download was a unique user (think about how many times you've downloaded the same mod due to updates or reinstalls and you'll realize this is very generous), then less than 10% of people that bought Civ4 downloaded the most popular mod available.

 

[kivanc]

I would say you're incorrect and using the forum as a basis for assumptions, which I've shown in this thread to be a faulty assumption.

The most popular mods (like BUG) have about 300k downloads. Assuming that every single download was a unique user (think about how many times you've downloaded the same mod due to updates or reinstalls and you'll realize this is very generous), then less than 10% of people that bought Civ4 downloaded the most popular mod available.

yeah. 10% of people that bought
and probably
2% of people who play it

i disagreed with Duuk in most cases on this thread in means of DLC. But we agree on this matter that mods aren't comparible to EPs. most people eitehr don't time for surfing the net or they don't trust unofficial mods.

 

[Chalks]

I would say you're incorrect and using the forum as a basis for assumptions, which I've shown in this thread to be a faulty assumption.

The most popular mods (like BUG) have about 300k downloads. Assuming that every single download was a unique user (think about how many times you've downloaded the same mod due to updates or reinstalls and you'll realize this is very generous), then less than 10% of people that bought Civ4 downloaded the most popular mod available.

10% of people who bought Civ4 downloaded the most popular mod available from this website. And if you take into account every single mod, and the fact that this site isn't the only place you can get mods from - I'm sure you'd see a figure closer to 20-25%. Maybe even higher.

Perhaps we need to define "very few", but I'd say a quarter of all players is not very few. That's a pretty significant chunk. And if you make the distinction between fans and people who bought the game but didn't play it very much - perhaps more than half the people who do more than simply dabble in the game have played with a mod.

There's a lovely trip down the "pulling statistics out of the air" road, but you get my point. The Civ franchise has a disproportionately large modding metagame compared to most games and quite frankly I think you're doing the modding community a disservice by trying to imply that "nobody cares".

Even if only 10% of all players had ever used a mod - a statistic that even your own estimates imply is woefully under-representative - 10% is not "very few". 1% is very few, perhaps, but if you released a game that crashed on "very few systems" I think you'd have trouble justifying that 10% was an acceptable failure rate.

A significant proportion of the fans of this genre are interested in its modding capabilities - a fact that is clearly shown by the way that the developers are spending time improving this aspect. If nobody cared, it's not like Civ would be the only franchise with no modding tools.

 

[kiwitt]

When Sims 3 came out with DLC it was quickly prirated and available all over the net. I think DLC content should be available, but only to those people who pay for the actual game. i.e. some kind of Licence Key check where the content is bound to the install key when you download it and it must match the install key

 

[Duuk]

yeah. 10% of people that bought
and probably
2% of people who play it

i disagreed with Duuk in most cases on this thread in means of DLC. But we agree on this matter that mods aren't comparible to EPs. most people eitehr don't time for surfing the net or they don't trust unofficial mods.

That's the 2nd or 3rd time in this thread that you've insinuated that 80% of people pirate the game. I find that offensive.