(Post) Launch DLC schedule

[TheGrayFox]

What’s with the attitude chief? If you’re going to misrepresent facts (let’s say lie for brevity’s sake) to support an argument you’re making, then it’s incumbent on anyone involved to make sure the actual facts are represented correctly.

I actually editted my post because I realized after the fact that it came off as a lot more rude than intended. I apologize

Again I've already admitted you were right and I was wrong about existence of the two day one dlc packs for V (one of which no one cares about), now lets get back to the point I was originally making which was about the SCALE of the day one dlc and Firaxis' dlc model in VII

Fact is, this is nothing new. Did earlier civ games have Cosmetic DLC for Fog of War tiles? No, sure. But is it predatory of the devs to offer that as an option? No. This isn’t Diablo, this isn’t Assassin’s Creed. You’re tilting at windmills when there are actual dragons elsewhere.

For the Civilization series having 16 seperate piece of DLC available as either day one DLC and preorder bonuses to be released within the month of release is something new.

I didn't even call the model predatory. I'm someone who buys and supports Paradox games . So hilariously you're the one tilting at windmills in that regard, all I said intially was that the amount of day one DLC and extensive DLC model was "worrying". You tried to assuage my worry about the scale of Firaxis' planned DLC model by pointing to the fact that Civ V had a single piece of day-one DLC that anyone cared about or wanted.

 

[pokiehl]

I didn't even call the model predatory. I'm someone who buys and supports Paradox games . So hilariously you're the one tilting at windmills in that regard, all I said intially was that the amount of day one DLC and extensive DLC model was "worrying".

If you like Paradox DLC models what specifically is “worrying” to you here?

 

[TheGrayFox]

If you like Paradox DLC models what specifically is “worrying” to you here?

I wouldn't go so far as to say I like Paradox's DLC model... I may understand their model and I may suffer their model but i don't particular like it as a consumer.

Even looking at Paradox though, 16 seperate pieces of month 1 dlc is a lot. CK3 has that many pieces of DLC so far and was released in 2020 (and handful of these DLC are mini expansion packs with brand new mechanics, characters, etc). That's my worry

 

[moysturfurmer]

Again I've already admitted you were right and I was wrong about existence of the two day one dlc packs for V (one of which no one cares about)

…

For the Civilization series having 16 seperate piece of DLC available as either day one DLC and preorder bonuses to be released within the month of release is something new.

I didn't even call the model predatory…. all I said intially was that the amount of day one DLC and extensive DLC model was "worrying". You tried to assuage my worry about the scale of Firaxis' planned DLC model by pointing to the fact that Civ V had a single piece of day-one DLC that anyone cared about or wanted.

I’m not denying that there’s more DLC at launch than in the past, but let’s look at the salient facts here:

You say 16 pieces of DLC Day One. Where are you getting that number from? By my count, that’s 7.

Tecumseh & Shawnee Pack Feb 6
Leader Persona 1 Feb 6
Leader Persona 2 Feb 6
Leader Persona 3 Feb 6
Leader Persona 4 Feb 6
Deluxe Cosmetics Feb 6
Founder Cosmetics Feb 6

Now you mention Civ V launched with one DLC that anyone cared about, Babylon, purchasable serparately or as part of the Deluxe edition. Let’s call Tecumseh/Shawnee the equivalent of that. It’s a new leader and a new civ. Well you don’t even have to pay extra for that. It’s a preorder incentive, so one could get it free just buy buying the game on release day. Is this not more consumer friendly than the Babylon model?

Let’s address “nobody cares about the Cradle of Civilization Map Scripts.” First off let’s be clear that it wasn’t One DLC, it was 4, with each vendor providing the buyer with 1. The other three, from other vendors had to be purchased separately. And nobody cares? Well I certainly didn’t. But I’m sure there are many TSL players who would disagree.

But let’s run with the nobody cares thing. Are Personas and “Deluxe Cosmetics” not equally as inconsequential? The cosmetics have less of an impact on gameplay than the map scripts, and the Personas, while nice, are more or less variations on a theme. You certainly aren’t left wanting if you don’t get the cosmetics. The personas are a bigger thing than the UI cosmetics, I’ll grant you, but they’re hardly as impressive as a new leader or civ.

And regarding the distinction between “predatory” and “worry.” If it’s not predatory, what exactly are you worried about?

 

[AntSou]

As long as the products are good and reasonably priced, as they have overwhelmingly been since Civ 5. Though I understand why people may be wary of DLCs. The model has often been used to pump out overpriced, half baked products.

 

[Linklite]

I must be blind. What Civ 7 menu? What DLC tab? What's Nintendo Wahoo? I type that into google, nothing shows up.

Go to the website, scroll down slightly:

Spoiler :

Hit menu. It'll bring up this pop up menu:

Spoiler :

Hit DLC, and it will show you the various DLCs:

Spoiler :

Select one, and it will bring up the details for that pack. Then scroll down and it will show you the release dates:

Spoiler :

Moderator Action: Added spoiler tags for better organization and to help those with slower connections.--Zaarin

 

[Linklite]

As long as the products are good and reasonably priced, as they have overwhelmingly been since Civ 5. Though I understand why people may be wary of DLCs. The model has often been used to pump out overpriced, half baked products.

I kinda agree with this.

My issue with DLC oriented methods of sale is that they tend not to be additions really, but parts of the main game that they hacked off (but kept the base game the same price), then packaged them as DLCs and charged ten times the price compared to what you would have paid for them as part of the base game. SSBU (which did still deliver a very full base game to be fair) was charging £5 for a character, when the base game had 72 characters and selling for £50. Insane prices. An example of cutting out base game content and charging extra for it is EA's Battlefront. I was shocked how little came with it (originally at least, they seemed to cave to the outrage).

However, if they deliver a full game bursting with content, then I don't mind getting reasonably priced DLCs for additional content. I recognise that the distinction is not completely objective, but I think it's valid.

 

[TheGrayFox]

I’m not denying that there’s more DLC at launch than in the past, but let’s look at the salient facts here:

You say 16 pieces of DLC Day One. Where are you getting that number from? By my count, that’s 7.

Tecumseh & Shawnee Pack Feb 6
Leader Persona 1 Feb 6
Leader Persona 2 Feb 6
Leader Persona 3 Feb 6
Leader Persona 4 Feb 6
Deluxe Cosmetics Feb 6
Founder Cosmetics Feb 6

Tbf I didn't say there were 16 pieces of day one DLC. I said there were 16 pieces of DLC as either day one DLC and as deluxe edition bonuses to be released within the month of release... I realize now that I counted wrong, its 11 within the first month and 14 within 2 months. (I counted the cosmetic packs listed twice)

Now you mention Civ V launched with one DLC that anyone cared about, Babylon, purchasable serparately or as part of the Deluxe edition. Let’s call Tecumseh/Shawnee the equivalent of that. It’s a new leader and a new civ. Well you don’t even have to pay extra for that. It’s a preorder incentive, so one could get it
free just buy buying the game on release day. Is this not more consumer friendly than the Babylon model?

Yes a civilization/leader pack is pre-order bonus DLC... How kind of Firaxis.... now are you forgetting that the equivalent to V's deluxe edition includes a DLC pack that will have 4 civilizations, wonders, and 2 leaders all to be released within the first month of release?

Let’s address “nobody cares about the Cradle of Civilization Map Scripts.” First off let’s be clear that it wasn’t One DLC, it was 4, with each vendor providing the buyer with 1. The other three, from other vendors had to be purchased separately. And nobody cares? Well I certainly didn’t. But I’m sure there are many TSL players who would disagree.
But let’s run with the nobody cares thing. Are Personas and “Deluxe Cosmetics” not equally as inconsequential? The cosmetics have less of an impact on gameplay than the map scripts, and the Personas, while nice, are more or less variations on a theme. You certainly aren’t left wanting if you don’t get the cosmetics. The personas are a bigger thing than the UI cosmetics, I’ll grant you, but they’re hardly as impressive as a new leader or civ.

And regarding the distinction between “predatory” and “worry.” If it’s not predatory, what exactly are you worried about?

1) If I'm remembering correctly (feel free to correct me, it's been a decade), the map packs that no one played didn't have TSL and most people used better map scripts/mods for their TSL games

2) I'd argue that 4 alternate leader personas complete with new gameplay bonuses, backrounds, and agendas (in a game where your leader now defines your civilization) are no where near as inconsequential as a map pack that no one actually plays or cosmetics.

3) Outside of DLC models that targets children like Fortnite, I don't think its possible to create a "predatory" DLC model. Firaxis isn't holding a gun up to my head to force anyone to buy their DLC cosmetics, however that doesn't mean I still can't be worried about the sheer quanity of DLC and pricing already being marketed.

 

[pokiehl]

1) If I'm remembering correctly (feel free to correct me, it's been a decade), the map packs that no one played didn't have TSL and most people used better map scripts/mods for their TSL games

2) I'd argue that 4 alternate leader personas complete with new gameplay bonuses, backrounds, and agendas (in a game where your leader now defines your civilization) are no where near as inconsequential as a map pack that no one actually plays or cosmetics.

Weird to call out “agendas” as some big ticket item there. Makes it seem like you’re just trying to pad your list to make a point.

At any rate, your point here seems to be…DLC of stuff you want to play with (leaders) is bad and concerning enough to make you worry, but DLC of stuff that you don’t want to play with (maps) is good? I’m confused. I thought the point of DLC was to give us more content that we want.

Somehow I think you’d be condemning this even more if the DLC were just maps like in Civ 5, but I digress.

 

[TheGrayFox]

Weird to call out “agendas” as some big ticket item there. Makes it seem like you’re just trying to pad your list to make a point.

How is it weird...? I hate agendas as a mechanic but the reality is that they flavor leader personalities in VI and VII. Getting a new alternate leader with different gameplay bonuses and personality is essentially getting a new leader. (and we're talking about a sequel which has made leaders an even more prominment feature by seperating them from their civs)

At any rate, your point here seems to be…DLC of stuff you want to play with (leaders) is bad and concerning enough to make you worry, but DLC of stuff that you don’t want to play with (maps) is good? I’m confused. I thought the point of DLC was to give us more content that we want.

Somehow I think you’d be condemning this even more if the DLC were just maps like in Civ 5, but I digress.

That wasn't my point at all. I don't want to be rude but you might want to try rereading my posts if your main take away was " maps bad, leaders good."

also I'd care a lot less if everything we were talking about was all superfulous cosmetic dlcs and map packs no one actually plays tbh

 

[Atlas627]

Good DLC is optional content that people may not care about, which works nicely with the game production cycle because certain departments may end up ahead of others and have spare time to work on something. For DLC, we've got several cosmetic things (map tiles and other such things as listed in the Deluxe/Founder packs). The gameplay things (2 Personas of Napoleon, a Leader, and a Civ) seem to be provided for free if you preorder and link your 2k account. There are 2 more Personas released day 1 that I can't find mention of elsewhere, but I imagine these will be similar.

1 full month later they'll be releasing half of the Crossroads of the World. We don't know what the content is, but it is probably 1) not stuff we all wanted so badly we wanted the whole game delayed a month to wait for it and 2) stuff not everyone will want to buy. How is this a bad thing?

 

[Siptah]

Good DLC is optional content that people may not care about, which works nicely with the game production cycle because certain departments may end up ahead of others and have spare time to work on something. For DLC, we've got several cosmetic things (map tiles and other such things as listed in the Deluxe/Founder packs). The gameplay things (2 Personas of Napoleon, a Leader, and a Civ) seem to be provided for free if you preorder and link your 2k account. There are 2 more Personas released day 1 that I can't find mention of elsewhere, but I imagine these will be similar.

1 full month later they'll be releasing half of the Crossroads of the World. We don't know what the content is, but it is probably 1) not stuff we all wanted so badly we wanted the whole game delayed a month to wait for it and 2) stuff not everyone will want to buy. How is this a bad thing?

I don‘t think that Napoleon is in this list. He can‘t be bought. The 4 personas are probably from the deluxe and founders editions (2 each).

 

[Fummy]

Imagine buying something that will be revealed after you pay for it. Pig in a poke.

 

[Kev1916]

Really ! people here defending 120€ games because it has day-1 "DLCs"? predatory pricing and gutting of the primary product in favour of DLC bombardment, aye sure

That content that is already inside the game developed months ahead and you just need a hex code to unlock it! yeha, keep defending this ideology, this trend keep's getting worse.

And the potential for denying base game mechinics, like what is this ??

"New game play bonuses , alternative agenda different personality !

Is both worrying and insidious

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I don't mind a DLC model. If it's a game that I like then I want new content, I want long term support, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to pay for it without concern.

I must admit that I've never liked pre-order bonuses, launch DLC, and different editions, though. I find it confusing and mostly just a bit irritating. I understand why they do it, but it's not for me; I'd rather see one basic launch edition, supported by patches for the first few weeks and months, followed by a clear roadmap for DLC.

I don't think this is anything new for Civ, but the amount of DLC coming so soon after launch is... suspicious. I'll obviously buy it (if Civ VII lives up to my hopes), but I won't be able to shake the feeling that they could have put a lot of this content in the base game.

 

[Gorbles]

People like to see updates to the game after release, but they don't like to see content held back from the initial release so that more money can be charged for it.

I will (as usual) try to keep this short, but content releasing shortly after release doesn't mean it's being held back from the main release. I understand how folks can see it as being that, but games development doesn't work that way. If this content wasn't going to be sold as DLC later down the line (even days / weeks / months after release), it would not be made, and the developers would be retasked onto something else instead. DLC in studio terms is a way of keeping developers on a project internally without being reassigned (often to a completely different product or project within a product, which will have their own commitments - once reassigned, going back is more difficult until your current responsibilities have been fulfilled).

Whew, short. For me.

 

[_hero_]

Regardless of where anyone stands on monetization, I think everyone should do themselves a favor and watch the "Let's Go Whaling" talk for context on how companies think about monetization these days.

 

[smvalentine]

Have they said yet how many leaders/civs are included in the base game?
I don't see it on the official web site or Steam.

CiV had 18?
Civ VI had 19/18 (not counting Aztec that everyone got free after 3 months).

To match that, VII base will need to have 18+ leaders and 54+(!) civs (18+ for each of 3 ages).

The 4 DLC promised in the Civ VI Deluxe gave us 4 leaders and 4 civs (that lasted the whole 8 eras), plus. They wound up delivering 2 extra DLC for that price bringing the total to 7 leaders and 7 civs, along with 5 natural wonders, 4 world wonders, 6 scenarios, and 6 city-states.

With that in mind, the DLC "collections" seem light at only 2 leaders and 4 civs each, plus 4 wonders and other fluff.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Have they said yet how many leaders/civs are included in the base game?
I don't see it on the official web site or Steam.

CiV had 18?
Civ VI had 19/18 (not counting Aztec that everyone got free after 3 months).

To match that, VII base will need to have 18+ leaders and 54+(!) civs (18+ for each of 3 ages).

The 4 DLC promised in the Civ VI Deluxe gave us 4 leaders and 4 civs (that lasted the whole 8 eras), plus. They wound up delivering 2 extra DLC for that price bringing the total to 7 leaders and 7 civs, along with 5 natural wonders, 4 world wonders, 6 scenarios, and 6 city-states.

With that in mind, the DLC "collections" seem light at only 2 leaders and 4 civs each, plus 4 wonders and other fluff.

I don't think the leader/civ rate is correct (or whether there's such rate at all). From what we've seen so far, exploration era has 11 civs (of course this could change), so we could expect total number of civs to be between 30 and 40. As for leaders, we've seen probably 10 so far, but there surely will be significantly more.

 

[TheGrayFox]

Good DLC is optional content that people may not care about, which works nicely with the game production cycle because certain departments may end up ahead of others and have spare time to work on something. For DLC, we've got several cosmetic things (map tiles and other such things as listed in the Deluxe/Founder packs). The gameplay things (2 Personas of Napoleon, a Leader, and a Civ) seem to be provided for free if you preorder and link your 2k account. There are 2 more Personas released day 1 that I can't find mention of elsewhere, but I imagine these will be similar.

1 full month later they'll be releasing half of the Crossroads of the World. We don't know what the content is, but it is probably 1) not stuff we all wanted so badly we wanted the whole game delayed a month to wait for it and 2) stuff not everyone will want to buy. How is this a bad thing?

the 4 leader personas are paid deluxe and founder edition bonuses. not preorder bonuses like the Shawnee/Tecumseh and we do know what the Crossroads of the World pack will include, just not specifically. The content is 4 new civilizations, 2 new leaders, 4 new natural wonders, and a cosmetic bonus. So most of the paid DLC content is gameplay related and not superfulous cosmetics.

Again DLC itself isn't a bad thing and should quite expected these days but I won't lie and say 14 pieces of seperate of mostly gameplay related DLC within months of release and the seemingly exhurberant pricing isn't worrying (remember the founders edition of VII is literally $40 more than the deluxe edition of VI, which gave access to 6 dlc packs over half a year)