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Pmod01 - A lightly modded SG

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by pnaxighn, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. pnaxighn

    pnaxighn Warlord

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    Sorry this took so long. On to the turn set!

    Inherited, in no particular order:

    GP farm is using 1f/3h mines. Only one spare food, though, so move one of them to engineer. More GP points, and GEs are always good. Switch build from market (huh?) to National Epic.

    SE whale city has no defenders. Send our army over there.

    Check diplo status. Hm. Charly and Mao want only edu. Obsolete wants nothing. Toku wants...tons of stuff. All of them have engineering and guilds, which we lack. Ow.

    Toku hates us from our war. Charly hates us for our religion. So we can trade with Obsolete and Mao, and have already given Obsolete edu for filler techs. Alright.

    Gift literature to Toku for +3. He still won't trade anything. Sad. Well, no harm done, at least.

    Good news on espionage screen -- we're <100% cost on all opponents. Redirect all EP to obs/Mao. Will decide on one or the other this set.

    Find a pretty good place for future national park. Mark it.

    Do a little bit o' micro in the SW whale city. We had a unimproved whale...and a bunch of guys working 2f/2c tiles?

    Turn 1:

    Lib! Yay! Grab nat. Move on to constitution. I want spy points (easy way to grab tech from foreign powers), plus democracy (we have a lot of cottages) and emancipation (we shoudl put pressure on the buddhist love-in).

    Cahokia: uni->research

    Nottingham: Switch off settler to Taj.

    Turn 2:

    Finally get tech visibility on all our opponents. Obsolete is going divine right (for the wonders, of course) while Mao is going for PP. That elects Mao are tech-thieving target. Switch all espionage to him.

    London: Caravel -> spy.

    York: Uni -> Wealth. Not much infra we really want here.

    Hastings: Uni -> Research. Same deal.

    Start wishing I could build "health".

    We meet Wang Kon. He's in last place. At war with Mao, Charlie, AND Toku. And hates us. Not much use to us.

    Turn 3:

    Do some worker actions. Will that be it?

    NO! Call up Obsolete and get just the trade I wanted: Nat + 25g for Guilds + Engineering. Prereqs for banking and chem, respectively. Excellent.

    Sadly, this sends Mao into WFYABTA. Also, we now must be careful of obs beating us to the Taj -- that would be saddening. Hopefully, some chops will make sure things come out in our favor...

    Turn 4:

    Hm. Mao, Charly, and Obsolete ALL cancel open borders. WTF? The power graph doesn't look TOO bad, but with London's spy done I start it on military, just in case something funny is being planned.

    I start thinking if switching to free religion, solely for the diplo bonus, is worth it. Bring up the civic screen to see what we'd be giving up...

    ...HOLY HELL! We're PAGAN?! Free religion. Now. Screw turns lost revolutin', this is insane. Stick with bureau over free speech...for now at least. Lack of religion improves our diplo somewhat, but nothing remarkable.

    Turn 5: Lighthouse -> courthouse in SE whale city ("Warwick"). Operations have begun on chopping up the Taj.

    Charly is willing to trade. Woot! He has banking: double woot! He won't trade gunpowder: ugh. Wait on this one -- I wanna snag banking + gunpowder for nat or edu (neither is a monopoly anymore, but both are enough bulbs to make this work).

    Really want Taj to finish so Nottingham can build a grocer. The health would be good for it, and we could use the cash.

    Turn 6: London finishes a longbowman and starts a grocer. I just can't bring myself to skip this, as it will pull in 7 cash/turn. Back to military after it, but that's the next player...

    Newcastle's courthouse comes in, which is nice. This could actually be a great production city, but it'll need some irrigation chaining. I sign as appropriate.

    Our exploration is starting to get pretty complete.

    Check up on our EP target ("Mao"). Researching sci meth. Sweet. Sadly, he's trying to counter our espionage. Not as sweet. Constitution will turn this in our favor. Democracy will make it crushing.

    Turn 7: WK caps to Charlie. Woo. With a score of 560 to our 1769, I don't see him swinging the game.

    More worker fun. Other than that, not much going on.

    Turn 8: Obsolete finishes the Taj. And the Sisten Chapel. Holy crap. He then goes WHEOOHRN. Lovely. Drop Taj for grover in Nottingham.

    I guess trading Nat to Obsolete was a serious error on my part. We have massive production in Nottingham, a 2 turn head start, and were chopping forests. We were still 13 turns (~50%) from completion when he finished it. Hot damn.

    Turn 9: Harbor -> grocer in Chaco Canyon. It needs the health, and we could use the money.

    Granary -> courthouse in Liverpool. That'll save 3.5 cash/turn. The Taj turns into a bunch of cash. Obsolete founds Islam...and has a GP born. Expect the shrine soon, I suppose.

    Release a spy on Mao's land. Head for his capital, where we can start consider tech-thievery.

    Turn 10: Consitution comes in. I hold off on rep, figuring we'll skip straight to universal suffrage. No one will trade us PP, so start researching it, sadly enough (no beakers yet, though, so we can change this if desired). Switch a couple cities that were on wealth/research to grocers/jails.

    We will want jails EVERYWHERE. This will produce a ton of EP, with which we can steal techs from Mao.

    We should get OB with Charlie/Mao ASAP. This will let us get our missionary into Mao's land. If we can convert him, that would rock.

    Other than that, I think we're doing OK. We're behind in tech, but once Charlie is willing to trade gunpowder we should be able to get it + banking from him easily. Also, while we're behind, we have the fastest research rate, so we'll pull back ahead as the game wears on. One good thievery from Mao will be huge, too.

    I think we're in fairly good position. The next question is how do we win. Space seems like the obvious choice, here, as the other continent is inconvenient and we lack religion. Between London, Hastings, and Newcastle, we should be able to pump space parts faster than anyone else.
     

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  2. pnaxighn

    pnaxighn Warlord

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    Also, that puts Silk up.
     
  3. Thy_Spellcraft

    Thy_Spellcraft King

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  4. pnaxighn

    pnaxighn Warlord

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    Good point. I didn't check the victory condition screen.

    I also didn't check the unit screen. What kind(s) of great people do we have sitting around? Take a look at that during your set, please, Silk.
     
  5. cripp7

    cripp7 Playin' Bored

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    wonder why they all closed borders? Mao is the only one right now that'll only OB, can trade corn,incense,wine,8gpt > clam,rice,gems,silk. That'l give some +2:health: & +1:) I would suggest doing them one at a time, that way if he cancels one it doesn't cancel them all.
    Good call on the NP city. Looks like Mao is going for culture, his top city is 5361,4361,4085. So keep an eye on him. We have a GS and 2GG sitting around.
    Which city is going to be our HE city?
    Building castles for the 25%:espionage: and +1:commerce: trade route until Economics comes in will help bring in some spy points.
     
  6. silk1976

    silk1976 Building empire

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    Basic goals:
    - Get jails and castles up for :espionage:
    - No need to get spy to mao's capital - in fact, stealing from Beijing is more expensive than perimeter cities. BTW current costs are in the 900 :espionage: range - we have about 350.
    - OB with charlie/mao to spread religion
    - corn, incense, wine,8 gpt for clam, rice, gems with mao.

    Lets see what kind of damage I can do here:

    Turn 237
    - corn from mao for clam
    - incense from mao for rice
    - wine from mao for gems
    - 8 gpt from mao for silk

    Turn 238
    - Noone wants to OB with us yet
    - Take a look at our power. I'd say we are in the danger zone - with everyone else being 50% higher than we are. We need gunpowder soon - I hope charlie will trade it away in the near future

    Turn 239
    - Obsolete demands 290 gold. Deny.
    - Coventry: forge > jail
    - Still, noone wants OB

    Turn 240
    - Mao asks for OB. Deny
    - Nottingham: settler > jail
    - move new settler to NP city (do we want to settle this spot next?)

    Turn 241
    - London: grocer > jail
    - Mound City: university > grocer
    - Oxford: courthouse > forge
    - We are up to +16 :gold:/turn. When did that happen!?
    - Charlie will trade away gunpowder! Unfortunately, he wants (constitution) or (education + 245 :gold) for (banking + gunpowder). He *really* wants constitution, as he'll trade away (banking + guns + music + theo + PP) for (constitution + education). This trade could save us 3 turns for PP, 3 turns for banking and 5 turns for guns.

    Stop here - need to discuss trade. Everyone else wants constitution - do we want to trade it away? AI doesn't go with SE very much, so constitution is only a step towards demo and ultimately eman - and we are going in the same direction. So seems like we mine as well do the trade that saves us 11 turns of research - since it doesn't give the AI anything we're not going after anyway.

    Attached save. Once we decide on trade course, I can continue with set, or next person can continue.
     

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  7. pnaxighn

    pnaxighn Warlord

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    Should've checked these. Good call.
    Sorta. We're inconvenient to invade, being all on our own.
    After all that? :lol: By the way, I'm fairly sure the closing of borders was from an AP vote. From Obsolete. That bastard!
    Seems fine. It'll be a bit until NP is ready, but it's a city we definitely want.
    When Nottingham finished its grocer, I'd guess.
    I'm fine with you continuing.

    As to the trading: Constitution is a monopoly tech. I'd like to trade it around. We can probably get PP/Gun/Bank from Charlie for edu+const even if it's no longer a monopoly tech, and theo/music are worthless -- what will Mao give us for const while it's monopoly? He has astro, which might be of interest to us, since we could then steal sci-meth from him once he's researched it.

    Also, we should try not to trade wonder-techs (demo) to Obsolete, since he will swipe the wonders, guaranteed (as I learned the hard way with nat/Taj :sad:).
     
  8. Thy_Spellcraft

    Thy_Spellcraft King

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    Hmm.. I won't understand why we denied the 290 gold demand after doing the best we could to get some diplo plus with obsolete (war with toku + tech-trade), as well as I don't understand why we denied OB with mao..

    About the NP City: It's ok with me but I'm not sure how we're going to feed it..

    About the deal I'd rather do the first trade (education + 245 :gold for banking and gun) as we want to get a bit more ahead to democracy so we should keep it. And as we need really lots of EPs to steal we should reallocate at least enough on everybody to see what he's researching. So we can trade it away a few rounds before we're loosing the monoply on it.

    BTW: for stealing techs we definitly should sign OB to increase the chance of success!!
     
  9. silk1976

    silk1976 Building empire

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    Mao asked for OB - us denying him doesn't preclude us from asking for OB from him if we decide we want that.

    As for denying the 290 :gold: - at the time we were running deficits and didn't have 290 :gold: to just throw around. As it turns out, we may be better served having that money to do a tech trade, as opposed to giving it away for nothing.

    From what I recall - noone would trade us anything - not even for constitution. That is part of the problem. We really only have charlie to trade with at this time.

    We are 3 turns away from PP - so I'm thinking edu + 245 :gold: for banking and gun. That way we keep constitution. So I am on board with Thy's thinking there - any other opinions or thoughts?

    For espionage - does OB really increase chance of success with stealing techs? Right now, we have a whole 4 :espionage: earned every turn - we dont even have enough to distribute 1 to every AI out there. So we're either going to need to sacrifice tech progress, or decide that espionage at this point is not the way to go, and keep teching normally.
     
  10. pnaxighn

    pnaxighn Warlord

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    Agreed...except on spy point distribution. Trying to keep track of everyone isn't worth it.

    For some reason I didn't consider the edu + 245 for bank/gun option. That's clearly better, since it lets us keep the monopoly. It may also open up further trades...
     
  11. cripp7

    cripp7 Playin' Bored

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    i think you should have taken that, since he has astro it would help with trade routes

    i understand about not having :gold: to throw around, but the diplo points are needed.

    Agree

    Yes OB does increase the chance, don't know the % though. Also
    Nationhood +25% per city
    Castles +25% per city
    Jails +4 +50%
    Security Bureau +8 +50%
    Intelligence Agency +8, +50% (once Communism is in)

    having +12:espionage: points with 150% per city would dramatically help our spies! Go ahaed and continue
     
  12. silk1976

    silk1976 Building empire

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    Continuing the turn set:

    Turn 241
    OB with Mao
    Education + 245 :gold: to Charlie for Banking, gunpowder

    Turn 242
    Mao wont trade with us because we are too advanced. Loser.
    Settle Dover, our NP city

    Turn 243
    cahokia: jail > walls (to get castle)

    Turn 244
    PP in - brings us from -5 :gold:/turn (after settling Dover) to +13 :gold:. Tech demo next

    Nottingham: jail > walls
    cahokia: walls > castle
    newcastle: forge > jail

    Turn 245
    York: grocer > jail
    nottingham: walls > castle
    hastings: grocer > jail

    Turn 246
    london: jail > walls

    Turn 247
    nottingham: castle > stock exchange
    cahokia: castle > grocer

    End here.

    Current status:
    Research slider @ 50%, giving us 304 :science: per turn and 31 :gold:
    Noone wants to trade with us yet.
    Up to 60 EP's per turn. All going to Mao. We are a couple turns from being able to steal tech from him
     

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  13. pnaxighn

    pnaxighn Warlord

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    Sounds good. Getting demo ourselves, and astro from Mao, we should be in excellent shape! :goodjob:
     
  14. cripp7

    cripp7 Playin' Bored

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    Moving on up!
     
  15. pnaxighn

    pnaxighn Warlord

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    I believe Thy is up.
     
  16. Thy_Spellcraft

    Thy_Spellcraft King

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  17. Thy_Spellcraft

    Thy_Spellcraft King

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    Here my ideas:

    We're still in buro but with more than 10 cities it's getting too expensive.. So we need to think about a civic change.. And as we want to get our EPs up Nationhood would be best. And as we've got no foreign trade routes a change to Mercantilism would be worth it. And doing so and going for the staure representation should be a no brainer..
    There are two possible ways to go:
    1. Use the GS (why we didn't use him for now) for a golden age and switch civics. This we could do immediatly.
    2. As far as I see noone got Economics. So we could try for this and use the GM on the GA. And the GS could build an academy or buld something.. (sorry forgot to take a look what he could bulb..)
    So teamdecision!!!

    Nonetheless what we decide do do economics should be next and corporation for the WallStreet afterwards.
    And I'll settle one or two filler cities. Overall this will become a nice builders set.. ;)
     
  18. cripp7

    cripp7 Playin' Bored

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    Obsolete has Economics, the GS should be used for an academy in London IMO. He can bulb +1926:science: of Chem. Definitely Nationhood:)
     
  19. Thy_Spellcraft

    Thy_Spellcraft King

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    you're damn right.. Should use my glasses bit more offen.. :lol:

    Not the best idea I think. We should rather build it in Hasting 'cause the raw commerce it will produce will be a bit better..

    But I've got another idea concerning the civic changes:
    London will produce another GPerson (57% GS; 43% GP) within 4 turns. With a bit MM and changing to resurch/wealth in a few cities will drop the duration for demo to 4 turns as well.. So with the GS we have we're going to build an acadamy right away. The second one we'll use for a GA (no matter what he'll be) to change civics to Rep, Nation, Eman, Merc, free rel. So I think until the end game we need no more changes.. This will save 3 turns of anarchy and we'll start with the stature from the first turn we can AND the help of an full GA.

    BTW: We didn't start Oxford yet. I'd propose Hastings once again, 'cause it will be able to run 13 cottages + a gold mine, what will be best within our empire!!

    So in case the team agrees I'll play the set tomorrow afternoon.
     
  20. cripp7

    cripp7 Playin' Bored

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    Sounds good to me!
     

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