Pmod01 - A lightly modded SG

[silk1976]

Cahokia was his capital!

I went after poverty point and then cahokia to protect our flanks in the event he decided to come out after us once the war started. I've found it easier to start towards and edge, like a coast, where the enemy has fewer retaliation options, rather then going straight up the gut of their territory, where you are essentially surrounded.

I disagree that cats being promo'd for barrage is . Time saved on our side is fewer chances for the AI to pump out extra units. Besides, cannot get barrage until you get CRI anyway. So it just means that you barrage with the CRI/Barrage units, then do initial attacks with cats that are CRI/CRII, and once the defenders are weakened, finish cleanup with the slightly weaker CRI/Barrage units.

 

[cripp7]

Got it! Good start for a war. As far as BarI on cats, I like doing a mix also of CRi/CRII&CRi/BarI and when longbows are in having BarI/Acc for faster defense dropping.
Dropping to 0% is what I usually do also. I'll suggest pumping out some settlers to settle the spots marked for cities instead of keep those in the south

Spoiler :

Pic is kinda small but you can see what's marked

 

[silk1976]

Got it! Good start for a war. As far as BarI on cats, I like doing a mix also of CRi/CRII&CRi/BarI and when longbows are in having BarI/Acc for faster defense dropping.
Dropping to 0% is what I usually do also. I'll suggest pumping out some settlers to settle the spots marked for cities instead of keep those in the south

Spoiler :

Pic is kinda small but you can see what's marked

I have to laugh - Isn't it thy's turn?

 

[pnaxighn]

Argh. I'm confusing barrage and accuracy. I'm a lot more willing to accept barrage than accuracy. Apologies, Silk.

 

[cripp7]

I have to laugh - Isn't it thy's turn?

I'm a dumba$$ yes I saw 'on deck'..I need a

 

[silk1976]

Argh. I'm confusing barrage and accuracy. I'm a lot more willing to accept barrage than accuracy. Apologies, Silk.

Nope - I don't think you are confusing them.

I confuse them all the time - so I may have misstated. In fact, I'm pretty sure I did. I said I promo'd to barrage, when I actually meant accuracy.

Reviewing promotions:
Accuracy - increases bombard damage
Barrage - increases collatoral damage
City Raider - increases % during city attacks.
Drill - +1 first strike

First promotions available to cats are: barrage I, CRI, Drill I
Accuracy requires CRI or BarrageI

The first promo's I did were CR1. A few of the catapults that gained experience, I promo'd to accuracy to increase their ability to take down defenses.

Regardless of what promo's were mentioned in previous posts - all the arguments still stand, because we both described in words what we prefer to do strategically. You're argument was that you prefer to wait an extra turn or two for the defenses to come down with default accuracy, and would rather do more damage to an individual defender once the cats attack. My argument is that with accuracy, the defenses come down more quickly, lowering the chances of the AI units, and also since maint costs during early wars tank an economy - the fewer turns spent in enemy culture borders = money saved in the bank. Then you attack with barrage promo'd units, and when the defending units are weak, you continue attacking with the weaker accuracy units, since they'll likely survive against such weak defenders.

In the case of SB, at least with PP, he didn't have walls or a castle (that I am aware of) to minimize bombardment damage - so that lends credibility to your arguement being the better one in this particular case. I'm just in the habit of always having a few super-defense busters in my stack that dont to anything but destroy defenses and mop up weak defenders after the main collatoral damage attack.

 

[pnaxighn]

Nope - I don't think you are confusing them.

I confuse them all the time - so I may have misstated. In fact, I'm pretty sure I did. I said I promo'd to barrage, when I actually meant accuracy.

Reviewing promotions:
Accuracy - increases bombard damage
Barrage - increases collatoral damage
City Raider - increases % during city attacks.
Drill - +1 first strike

First promotions available to cats are: barrage I, CRI, Drill I
Accuracy requires CRI or BarrageI

The first promo's I did were CR1. A few of the catapults that gained experience, I promo'd to accuracy to increase their ability to take down defenses.

Regardless of what promo's were mentioned in previous posts - all the arguments still stand, because we both described in words what we prefer to do strategically. You're argument was that you prefer to wait an extra turn or two for the defenses to come down with default accuracy, and would rather do more damage to an individual defender once the cats attack. My argument is that with accuracy, the defenses come down more quickly, lowering the chances of the AI units, and also since maint costs during early wars tank an economy - the fewer turns spent in enemy culture borders = money saved in the bank. Then you attack with barrage promo'd units, and when the defending units are weak, you continue attacking with the weaker accuracy units, since they'll likely survive against such weak defenders.

In the case of SB, at least with PP, he didn't have walls or a castle (that I am aware of) to minimize bombardment damage - so that lends credibility to your arguement being the better one in this particular case. I'm just in the habit of always having a few super-defense busters in my stack that dont to anything but destroy defenses and mop up weak defenders after the main collatoral damage attack.

I have two tendencies that are important here:

1) I tend to go in with a LOT of units and a LOT of siege.
2) I tend to not attack unless I can attack with EVERYTHING.

So round 1 is always "bombard with 10ish cats, 20 cannons, or whatever", and round 2 is "attack with everything". Hence accuracy is of 0 use, but city raider helps keep my stack big. With a M3 GG this is very, very efficient.

 

[cripp7]

so after you drop the defenses you Stack attack your CRI cats, basically throw all of them at the same time against the defenders? That's probably the one weakness is the Stack attack, which I usually dropped the defenses and then just use one by one

 

[pnaxighn]

so after you drop the defenses you Stack attack your CRI cats, basically throw all of them at the same time against the defenders? That's probably the one weakness is the Stack attack, which I usually dropped the defenses and then just use one by one

Typically the cats are CR2, at least, and I don't have stack attack turned on (though as far as I know it doesn't change the math). The idea is that I always take the city in one turn, rather than having some enemy units have a turn of healing.

 

[silk1976]

Typically the cats are CR2, at least, and I don't have stack attack turned on (though as far as I know it doesn't change the math). The idea is that I always take the city in one turn, rather than having some enemy units have a turn of healing.

My understanding is the same as yours - the math is no different with stack attack rather than picking units one by one. But with one by one, you have a bit more control, and sometimes this can be advantageous.

Taking a city in one turn is always beneficial for the reason you mention - less time for the enemy to heal or get reinforcements. We just have different methods of accomplishing that goal

So - can we discuss next moves? Thy - are you out there for your turnset, as you are up next?

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

I'm sorry for keeping you waiting..
But I'm back and will hopefully find the time to play and report within a few hours..

So got it!

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

So, here we go...

Pre:
Some MM to get our econ back online.. I think our forces are strong enough to take down SB by only using Nottingham for troops building.

900 AD:
Changed production in Hastings and in Canterbury to a lib.
The stack in Cahokia got split to speed up this war a bit.. The healed units went for Chaco Canyon while the rest kept healing and will head for Mesa Verde. To bring down Mound City I decided to send the "settler counter stack" into the war!

940 AD:
London finished it's cat and went on with a market.

940 AD:
York finished it's cat and went on with a market as well. And we born a GG in London.

960 AD:
Cahokia got out of resistence.

980 AD:
Lib in Hastings finished and a temple gt started. Our mighty forces next to Chaco Canyon started the attack and after loosing one cat and one sword (at 90% ) the city is ours:

Spoiler :

1010 AD:
The Curch of Nativity wbidl.
The charge onto Mesa Verde broke loose and after loosing another cat we burned only let ruins behind. Encouraged by the victory at Mesa Verde our troops outside Mound City prepared to charge as well.. And they won:

Spoiler :

1020 AD:

Spoiler :

Good job for now!
And once again we struck and won! Moundville got burned at the loss of 2 cats and one Axe (once again at 90 % ):

Spoiler :

In Cahokin the temple got whiped and we continue with a court.

1030 AD:
On my final turn Hasting finished it's temple and went on with a forge, and another city had to burn. This time it was Spiro

So we're right about to take down SB. We should discuss whether we want to sign peace for ten turns just to get some techs (I'm not sure what SB will give us for peace but it might be an idea), or just go on burning down his cities..
And there's still the GG in Nottingham. I think best would be to settle him, as we don't need a Medic right now. But the decision is up to the team!

Roster:
silk
thy - just played
cripp - up next
pnaxighn

 

[pnaxighn]

We should build some settlers, since we want to burn/resettle much of SBs land, as well as settle the (now safe) SW.

We should consider techs from SB, but with our continent to ourselves we'll take very rapidly from here on out.

The only reason for a medic now might be to unlock west point, though I suppose we may want to have one in the future. A mil instructor wouldn't be bad, but we could also save the GG for a academy once we have the tech. This will be our last war for a bit, as we now have lots of land, I think.

Once SB is gone and our land is settled, we'll want to head towards optics and find out who else is out there.

 

[cripp7]

got it..i'll take a look and play tomorrow probably.

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

We should build some settlers, since we want to burn/resettle much of SBs land, as well as settle the (now safe) SW.

Hmm I'm not sure whether settler spamming in times of crushed economy would be the best idea! Ther's noone around to take away our land. So we do have all the time we need to rebuild our econ before we settle all the land!

The only reason for a medic now might be to unlock west point, though I suppose we may want to have one in the future. A mil instructor wouldn't be bad, but we could also save the GG for a academy once we have the tech. This will be our last war for a bit, as we now have lots of land, I think.

Good point, but it's bit too long until we may build West Point. Therefore I still prefere settling..

Once SB is gone and our land is settled, we'll want to head towards optics and find out who else is out there.

 

[cripp7]

Just making sure it's my turn I looked at the save and I'll finish out SB, beeline optics. I agree on not settling the whole island until our economy is better cuz right now we're -10gpt@0% Our cities can stop producing units and work on infrastructure and getting back on track, maybe switch to caste after SB's captured cities are done with courthouses to run merchants/scientists

 

[silk1976]

All together -

Cripp, it's your turn now!

Coupla thoughts:
- I screwed up before DoW on SB because we could have traded currency for a lot of back-fill techs. Well, 3 of them. But thats three more than we had. At the time though, I didn't want to give up currency to SB - but seeing how quickly we are mowing through him - I should have gone ahead with it.
- Keep in mind that our economy is tanked because our army is in another culture border. Once SB is out - it'll suddenly spring back up. At least, somewhat. So while we may be -10 gpt@0%, it'll get better.
- I agree with pnax - we hve to get to optics to see who else is out there. There is a slight chance we can get to the northern continent without optics - but I doubt it, otherwise someone else would have come along already.
- For our GG - my vote is to settle. It'll be a while, but I suspect we will be at war again once we determine who is on the northern continent and can get over there. I think the extra XP trumps increased production at the moment, because if I recall correctly, we'll have a couple good military pumps, so the additional production will be less important.

 

[cripp7]

Actually got time tonight. SB is gone, we have the whole continent to ourselves

Pre-Turn
Nottingham switch to forge the gem,silver will give +2
London market for 2pop, growth in 1t
Need to delete the warriors once SB is gone, they're just costing
Drop slider to 20%(-18gpt) Machinery 12t

Turn 164
London market>forge hire 2 scientists
3axe,2cat go towards the south city. Big stack ready to move to Snaketown

Turn 165
Nottingham forge, hire 2 merchants
Slider to 30%(-18gpt) 275 in the bank, Machinery 5t

Turn 166
Nottingham forge>library

Turn 167
Canterbury library>court
Mound City out of revolt
Slider to 80% Machinery 1t

Turn 168
Machinery in, dial Sailing 2t with slider @30%(-24) 265

Spoiler :

Hastings forge>market
Mound City granary
York market
Snaketown razed

Spoiler :

Notice some more border to the west of Nacodoges, possibly another city there

Turn 169
York market>wealth
Mound City granary>court
Cahokia courthouse
Canterbury hire 2 scientists
SoD moving to Naco, 2 CG3 archers on a hill
Sorry Marty(warrior) had to go(deleted), spear there named Marty

Turn 170
Sailing in, Compass 7t

Spoiler :

Cahokia court>library
Chaco Canyon granary
Slider @50%(-20)

Turn 171
Nottingham library>monastary (1t from growth, then settler)
Chaco Canyon granary>court
Barb axe pops up SE of Cahokia move C2 spear to mine. Need to keep some units on fog control
Another SB city on the coast E of Nago

Turn 172
Naco razed 2 free workers

Spoiler :

Barb axe loses to spear
GG is born, put to sleep

Spoiler :

SoD moves to last SB city
Nottingham settler
Hastings market
WW is starting to creep up

Turn 173
Hastings market>aquaduct
Bye-bye warrior in London(delete)

Turn 174
Waiya raze (actually would be good location but can't afford it right now) free worker

Spoiler :

Slider to 60%(-34) Compass 2t
SoD moving back to borders, some chariots are on fog duty
Barb sword snuck in on cow by Cahokia

Turn 175
zz

Turn 176
Compass in, Optic due in 7t

Spoiler :

Barb pilliaged cow, killed him with a sword and worker ready to rebuild

save here
A settler will be ready next turn, another in 4t to settle the west. I marked a couple more (possible) city spots. Once Optics is in we can load some missionaries up. Need OR civic, hopefully we can make some trades soon.
View of the lands

Spoiler :

 

[Thy_Spellcraft]

Good turnset cripp!!

About the cityspots: There's only one location I'd move.. The one the western coast NE of the clams I'd propose to settle this on the ruins. We'll pick up clams as well but wouldn't overlap with the southern rice/cow location.

And after the last two courts in Mound City and Chaco Canyon we need to build the Forgotten Palace very soon. I'd purpose Cahokin or the western City next to the clams.

 

[cripp7]

Good turnset cripp!!

Thanks!

About the cityspots: There's only one location I'd move.. The one the western coast NE of the clams I'd propose to settle this on the ruins. We'll pick up clams as well but wouldn't overlap with the southern rice/cow location.

And after the last two courts in Mound City and Chaco Canyon we need to build the Forgotten Palace very soon. I'd purpose Cahokin or the western City next to the clams.

I think Cahokin(sp?) would be decent too, that would help a LOT!