Poland should apologise for starting the Second World War?

[Patroklos]

The Geman claims on Danzig were valid, far more so than some of their others. I don't blame Poland for to ceding the territory outright (though they should have allowed for the proper links between the two parts of Germany), I blame the victors of WWI for creating such a territorial monstrosity that was the corridor.

I am not really sure how things would have gone down if Poland had allowed the annexation of Danzig. The restoration of lost territory was the carrot Hitler had to goad the populace into supporting such things, after getting the corridor back I can't see what else would be readily available to kick the war off.

 

[Winner]

The Geman claims on Danzig were valid, far more so than some of their others. I don't blame Poland for to ceding the territory outright (though they should have allowed for the proper links between the two parts of Germany), I blame the victors of WWI for creating such a territorial monstrosity that was the corridor.

I am not really sure how things would have gone down if Poland had allowed the annexation of Danzig. The restoration of lost territory was the carrot Hitler had to goad the populace into supporting such things, after getting the corridor back I can't see what else would be readily available to kick the war off.

Alsace-Lorraine? Other parts of Poland?

 

[Patroklos]

Alsace-Lorraine? Other parts of Poland?

Naw, the German's never considered that a real part of Germany, just a big f-you to hold over the French. Plus directly declaring war against France over that would not have flown politically in Germany.

I guess they could ask for more of Poland, but after having gotten the corridor and made Germany look whole again on a map, I really don't see that either.

 

[Winner]

Naw, the German's never considered that a real part of Germany, just a big f-you to hold over the French. Plus directly declaring war against France over that would not have flown politically in Germany.

I guess they could ask for more of Poland, but after having gotten the corridor and made Germany look whole again on a map, I really don't see that either.

They could stage provocations, rise new claims and so on. The war would come, though it would be very different from that which Hitler got in 1939. AFAIK the Nazis believed they wouldn't be ready for war until mid 1940s or so.

If Poland had caved and was included in the German sphere of influence (like Slovakia, Bulgaria or Romania), then they'd have surely invaded the USSR at some point in the future, which was what Hitler dreamed about the whole time.

 

[REDY]

Well Patroklos talks about Germans, no nazists. Giving any part of land to nazists was shame, nevermind how German would area be. It would mean that all non-german and non-nacist population would be in danger.

With access to sea had Poland theoretically chance to get western help (in case of war againist soviets), therefore it was strategically very important.

 

[red_elk]

When an arsonist shouts "Help, fire!" after he started it, then it's nothing but a pure hypocrisy. But I do realize that for Russians, hypocrisy is their daily bread.

So, you claim that people are not allowed to express their opinion on certain topic if these people have wrong nationality (or ethnicity)?

 

[warpus]

Polish army was defeated by Germany solely. Poland didn't want help from the Soviet side. Allies did not help them as well. The only difference the Soviet army made, is preventing part of Poland from German occupation.

While most of the fighting was between Polish and German army units, Polish and Soviet units did engage, quite a bit.

We've already gone over this. If it was soooo obvious, why did Poland sign an NAP with the Nazis in '34 and happily help themselves to a little Teschen on the side?

I suppose hindsight is 20/20.. However.. what was Poland supposed to do? We were surrounded by enemies - sometimes making the best of a bad situation is all you can do..

I am not really sure how things would have gone down if Poland had allowed the annexation of Danzig. The restoration of lost territory was the carrot Hitler had to goad the populace into supporting such things, after getting the corridor back I can't see what else would be readily available to kick the war off.

Hitler would have continued to make demands until Poland was wiped off the map - like he did with Czechoslovakia.

 

[Winner]

So, you claim that people are not allowed to express their opinion on certain topic if these people have wrong nationality (or ethnicity)?

No further comment is necessary.

 

[Yeekim]

then they'd have surely invaded the USSR at some point in the future, which was what Hitler dreamed about the whole time.

"The whole time?" I hardly think that Hitler had plans for invading USSR much before he gave orders to work out "Barbarossa".
He knew full well the consequences warring on two fronts were doomed to bring to Germany and only finally did so as a desperate, all-out last resort.

 

[red_elk]

No further comment is necessary.

"Russians should shut up"
Indeed, no comments.

 

[warpus]

"The whole time?" I hardly think that Hitler had plans for invading USSR much before he gave orders to work out "Barbarossa".

"Lebensraum" required an invasion of the S.U.

 

[Winner]

"The whole time?" I hardly think that Hitler had plans for invading USSR much before he gave orders to work out "Barbarossa".
He knew full well the consequences warring on two fronts were doomed to bring to Germany and only finally did so as a desperate, all-out last resort.

Concrete plans no, but I think he'd always had the general idea of expanding to the East and he certainly didn't mean just Poland or Czechoslovakia.

As far as I understand WW2, Hitler never really wanted a war in the West. He believed that Britain and France would cave in the case of Poland as they had caved before, and he would then be free to do whatever he wants in the East.

When it became clear that war with the Western powers was inevitable, he made a short-term alliance with the Soviets to keep them out of the game while he would neutralize the West, and when that was accomplished (almost completely), he turned on them.

 

[Yeekim]

"Lebensraum" required an invasion of the S.U.

I think it was one of these cases where ideology was tailored to suit real-world necessities, rather than other way round.
But there are two theories per every historian, of course.

 

[warpus]

I think it was one of these cases where ideology was tailored to suit real-world necessities, rather than other way round.
But there are two theories per every historian, of course.

I'm not sure what you mean here exactly, but Hitler's vision for Germany (i.e. an eastward expansion and acquisition of land) was well documented.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Indeed. He knew he wanted to invade the USSR, but the actual planning of how to do that didn't begin until 1940. His generals were quite horrified (and justifiably so) at the initial suggesting of such a venture.

 

[Danielos]

As much as I despise Hitler and Nazi Germany, I think Germany had some valid reasons for wanting Danzig and link Germany to East Preussia. Wasn´t those regions "legal" parts of Germany with mainly German citizens but lost to Poland after Versailles treaty?
I think Hitler mainly was interested in uniting all German-speaking citizens in a "Great Germany" and restoring the borders from before the Versailles treaty. I think the popular view of Hitler as a megalomaniac "world conqueror" is exaggerated.

I hate to defend the Nazis, but nothing is just black and white...

 

[warpus]

I think Hitler mainly was interested in uniting all German-speaking citizens in a "Great Germany" and restoring the borders from before the Versailles treaty.

Yeah... that's why he incorporated Bohemia and Moravia into greater Germany, right? Because the Czechs are German, obviously.

That's obviously why he also invaded the Soviet Union, right? To unite all the Germans who live in Moscow, huh?

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

As much as I despise Hitler and Nazi Germany, I think Germany had some valid reasons for wanting Danzig and link Germany to East Preussia. Wasn´t those regions "legal" parts of Germany with mainly German citizens but lost to Poland after Versailles treaty?
I think Hitler mainly was interested in uniting all German-speaking citizens in a "Great Germany" and restoring the borders from before the Versailles treaty. I think the popular view of Hitler as a megalomaniac "world conqueror" is exaggerated.

He had a plan to literally wipe out the Slavs except for a small slave labour force and colonize the whole of Eastern Europe as a new German super power. How can you possibly call it anything but megalomanaical world conquering? He might not have had every step of a coherent plan worked out in the beginning, but his goals were very real from the beginning.

 

[Winner]

Yeah... that's why he incorporated Bohemia and Moravia into greater Germany, right? Because the Czechs are German, obviously.

And even the Sudeten German regions had never been a part of Germany before, yet it mattered little to Nazis and their ideology and also to the idiots in Britain and France.

Hitler made his plans for Czechoslovakia clear whole years before the war - he spoke of one unified German bloc in Central Europe, and when you look at the map, you see that the Czech-inhabited lands kinda spoil the picture. He made it clear he wanted to destroy Czechoslovakia, which makes the magnitude of Britain's folly even harder to comprehend.

 

[Dachs]

And even the Sudeten German regions had never been a part of Germany before, yet it mattered little to Nazis and their ideology and also to the idiots in Britain and France.

Sure they had. It was called the 'Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation'.