[RD] Policing High-Fives

[Bamspeedy]

Definitely, if there is a cop on the premises who's job it is to patrol the premises, then to me that signifies that several incidents must have occurred in the past to warrant that, or the school is in a bad enough part of town.

If it's just a regular ole security guard, then that's normal and I wouldn't care. A cop patrolling a school is definitely not normal.

Then Toronto is pretty bad, eh?

https://www.thestar.com/life/parent/2009/06/30/more_schools_to_have_a_good_cop_patrolling_halls.html

 

[Lexicus]

I guess I can be corrected if somebody knows the comics better, but I'm thinking it would be "take off his helmet and fraternize."

Alright, then I think your argument poses a false dichotomy.

 

[warpus]

Then Toronto is pretty bad, eh?

https://www.thestar.com/life/parent/2009/06/30/more_schools_to_have_a_good_cop_patrolling_halls.html

near Toronto's often troubled Jane-Finch community

Yeah man, I wouldn't want my kids attending school in that part of town! Toronto is pretty safe overall, but Jane/Finch is known to locals as a shady part of town not worth visiting. Watch your back when you're near there

Not surprised they have armed police officers patrolling schools there, it's a crappy part of town.

 

[EgonSpengler]

A New York Times article from a few years ago makes a couple of good points, I think:

While schools may bring in police officers to provide security, the officers often end up handling discipline and handing out charges of disorderly conduct or assault, said Michael Nash, the presiding judge of juvenile court in Los Angeles and the president of the National Council of Juvenile and Family Court Judges.

“You have to differentiate the security issue and the discipline issue,” he said. “Once the kids get involved in the court system, it’s a slippery slope downhill.”

Mo Canady, the executive director of the National Association of School Resource Officers, defended placing police officers in schools, provided that they are properly trained. He said that the negative impacts had been exaggerated, and that when the right people were selected and schooled in adolescent psychology and mediation, both schools and communities benefited.

“The good officers recognize the difference between a scuffle and a true assault,” Mr. Canady said.

So with proper training, the proper selection of officers for the duty, and a clear definition of their role and responsibilities, liaison officers can be a benefit. As it is with everything the police do, I suppose.

 

[Farm Boy]

Alright, then I think your argument poses a false dichotomy.

I don't know how else to react to a nationwide criticism on a core tenant of community policing. I mean, if you think community policing is not a positive we have very different outlooks on what effective law enforcement looks like.

 

[Lexicus]

I don't know how else to react to a nationwide criticism on a core tenant of community policing.

There are more choices than status quo or status quo but the police give the children high-fives. Community policing, as I understand it, entails a lot more than police giving children high-fives.

I mean, if you think community policing is not a positive we have very different outlooks on what effective law enforcement looks like.

We probably do. Ideally we could do without the police entirely. I would draw on events like the Seattle General Strike for inspiration:

Army veterans created an alternative to the police in order to maintain order. A group called the "Labor War Veteran's Guard" forbade the use of force and did not carry weapons, and used "persuasion only."[3] Peacekeeping proved unnecessary. The regular police forces made no arrests in actions related to the strike, and general arrests dropped to less than half their normal number. Major General John F. Morrison, stationed in Seattle, claimed that he had never seen "a city so quiet and orderly."[3]

 

[Bamspeedy]

Yeah man, I wouldn't want my kids attending school in that part of town! Toronto is pretty safe overall, but Jane/Finch is known to locals as a shady part of town not worth visiting. Watch your back when you're near there

Not surprised they have armed police officers patrolling schools there, it's a crappy part of town.

From the article it is clear that at least 3 of the schools are in that part of town (Jefferys, Westview Centennial and Emery Collegiate). What about the other 20 schools? Are they in that area, too?

Jefferys, whose name has become almost shorthand for school violence in this city, joins two other schools near Toronto's often troubled Jane-Finch community – Westview Centennial and Emery Collegiate – on a list of 20 more to get the "school resource officers," a program the police chief says "gets positive reaction in spades.

 

[Farm Boy]

Playing games at recess and saying "Hi, good morning" are literally about the cheapest, least confrontational, and least political relationship building activities I can think of that involve kids.

It even removes from the context any smoking parents or siblings might do on their own time, etc.

 

[warpus]

From the article it is clear that at least 3 of the schools are in that part of town (Jefferys, Westview Centennial and Emery Collegiate). What about the other 20 schools? Are they in that area, too?

Toronto has 451 elementary schools and 110 secondary schools, and that doesn't include the Catholic and private schools.

So yeah, if I was signing up my firstborn for school, and it turned out that the school in question has a cop patrolling the hallways.. I would assume that the school is either in a particularly bad part of town, that there's some history of violence and/or crime, or something similar. Why else would they need a cop patrolling the hallways? It's a sign of a problem.

You are correct, I would not want my kids to attend any of those 23 schools. If there weren't any issues with crime or violence, there wouldn't be a cop on duty. If there is, I'm sending my kids elsewhere.

 

[NovaKart]

K- 12 means kindergarten through 12th grade, so that includes high schools. In some high schools you may have students as old as 19 and some could be bigger and stronger than the teachers. There are instances of teachers and other staff getting seriously injured. I don't think it's unreasonable for there to be police or security guards in a school and the 17,000 figure doesn't tell us how many are in elementary schools specifically.