Policy Trees: Jump Around or Close 'em Out?

[eric_]

So, this thread is inspired by slobberinbear's post in this thread:

Consider that the +1 hammer, in conjunction with improved worker productivity from Citizenship, are part of Liberty's grand design -- to allow the civ in question to expand and get productive in new cities while not completely losing happiness (Meritocracy's minor bonus) or new policies (Representation's bonus).

Emphasis mine.

That post kind of crystallized something I've been wondering about more and more: once you open a policy tree, is it best to stick with it until it's completed, or is there no harm in jumping around for specific bonuses here and there? in other words, is there a "grand design" to each tree that you miss out on or whose efficiency is lost if you don't see it through uninterrupted?

 

[sschmalz]

Succeeding in Civilization depends on successful prioritizing. When it comes to policies, whether you choose a policy based off of an immediate need or a long term goal doesnt' matter, you are still prioritizing. Regardless of how your game has been shaped, there are always going to be some policies in various branches that would be more beneficial than all the policies in a single branch.
What I'm trying to say is that completing a branch just to complete it is not prioritizing the needs of the empire.

 

[MadDjinn]

full trees are only needed for cultural VC.

Otherwise, pick and choose what is right for you in that game and at that exact moment. (or current plan)

There's no tree that absolutely must 100% be completed. There's some that get you really close though.

 

[chazzycat]

I will almost always be skipping around and rarely complete an entire tree. While it's true that there is a "grand design" for each tree, there is usually at least 1 policy that doesn't quite fit your strategy for that game. Or, a better policy in a more advanced policy tree is available and too hard to pass up.

For instance, Liberty certain does have the grand design described by slobberingbear. But, by the time I get to medieval I'm usually in need of happiness so I will pursue Piety most of the time without filling out republic.

I think it would be cool if they added an extra bonus for filling out the tree.

 

[eric_]

OK, yeah, that's how I tend to play (jumping around), I just always have this nagging suspicion that sticking to a tree and tailoring my short- to midterm strategy to it might reap benefits in the long run. Even in light of this thread, I think I may try that sometime and see how it goes.

Probably what I should focus on more, though, is coordinating the unlocking of new policies with the attainment of new tech eras. Currently I make almost no effort to do so.

I think it would be cool if they added an extra bonus for filling out the tree.

That could be cool...

Thanks for the feedback y'all!

 

[HalfBadger]

I think it would be cool if they added an extra bonus for filling out the tree.

I like this idea too. Some trees aren't really consistent either. Like "Commerce" only has 2 policies that immediately give you more gold.

 

[bronzeager]

sometimes you need to get a "merely ok" policy out of the way so you can get to something good further down the tree. I'm thinking the +1 sight/movement for ships in order to get the +3 hammer coastal cities one. I'm sure there are other/better examples. But sometimes what could benefit you most in the moment isn't the best thing for your grand strategy.

 

[manu-fan]

Isn't it the fact that some of the more powerful choices are further down the tree? So, sometimes I'll be filling out a tree to get to that really powerful policy. However, I do tend to jump around also. I also don't usually have many policies because I expand and conquer as quickly as possible.

Cheers.

 

[slobberinbear]

Unless I am considering a cultural victory, I don't complete the policy trees simply because (as others have said) there aren't enough policies to go around. That said, I shoot for a policy rate of 1 per 20 turns in most of my games, which adds up to a decent amount. In our Kamehameha Challenge game, I finally have been able to dip into the Order tree which I am finding new and interesting.

I also agree that the game rewards you for staying with a policy in the sense that the higher tier policies are generally more powerful than the opener.

 

[Rittmeyer]

going through 3 libery policies in order to grab meritocracy simply to get early acess to scholasticism is probably the best strategy right now.

 

[slobberinbear]

By the way, I really do think there is a 'grand design' in the policies. The mixing and matching is certainly possible (and necessary), but I think the designers were going for:

Tradition: small, vertical empire with defensive/wonder focus, at least in the early game
Liberty: expansionist
Honor: militaristic
Piety: to produce happiness, especially after expansion or conquest
Patronage: to maximize the CS element of the game
Commerce: naval/maritime/money-making
Rationalism: scientific development
Freedom: specialist
Autocracy: end-game conquest
Order: end-game large empire management

In essence they combined the Leader Types and government types of Civ IV by using policies. think they mostly hit the mark with this.

I am particularly interested in the combinations of various policy trees as they pertain to map type/situation, civ choice, and playstyle.

 

[Tabarnak]

From my experience, going 3-4 policies in a row in a said branch is often the right idea.
Mainly because some of the most powerful policies are deeper.

 

[OrsonM]

In the end you'll probably end up with a lot of points in Liberty and Tradition (at least 3 points each), maybe a few points in Piety (because it's there at the time) and then it's a sprawling toss up. Since you already spent in Liberty or Piety, likely you wont spend any points in Autocracy or Rationalism (too little much too late anyways), Order and Commerce you'll barely notice them or feel their effects (Commerce comes at an odd point and Order just too late). That leaves for Patronage (2 great policies and 4 fairly mediocre policies) and Freedom (all around as good as Liberty and Tradition).

So in the end I guess you'll just end up spending heavily in 3 trees (because they are the best for each age) and have around 4 other trees with a few points here and there (and around 2 you'll never touch).

Oh and Honor has 5 really great skills (4 of them will be helpful till the end of the game), yet since it has to compete with the circumstantial Tradition and Liberty, you'll likely just pass it.

 

[King_Course]

If you are going for a cultural win, it might be a good idea to fill out Liberty first, because you will want to take the policies while they stille have abit of use to you, as in opposed to later when they have no use whatsoever (Free settler mostly, and then the +1 hammer to all cities, I isually skip these 2 policies). This also relies on a swift gain of culture in the beginning of the game, or there might be other policies too important to put off.

 

[snarzberry]

I get what you're saying but I think the best bet is getting into freedom ASAP. It's nice to get more value out of the +1 but at the cost of delaying the policy discount? For me it depends on the timing of my entering Renaissance as to whether I'll go piety or freedom first, this is for a cultural game of course.

For other games I hardly ever fill out an entire tree, I frequently take just the opening policy in freedom in any type of game due to how good it is, but often I take no more. It's hard to argue with the approach of taking the policies that most help you achieve your goals regardless of which tree they're in. I'm pretty much always taking some of liberty and some of tradition etc. Of all the trees the one I think I fill out the most is patronage.

 

[André Alfenaar]

I usually fill out Liberty completely, but only after taking the opening SP of Tradition. Concerning Tradition the first policies (wonder bonus) and oligarchy are very strong. The other more advanced ones get of lesser importance once I have a larger empire. So I usually skip them. Once in Renaissance Freedom has priority. Especially if I have a lot of wonders in different cities. After that I invest in the main path of order and then usually piety during the endgame, granting an almost continuous golden age...

 

[CYZ]

Even if you're going for a Culture win it's still always best to go cherry picking. Taking the policies you want when you want them.

If you want a culture win you can always fill up the leftover policies later. For me it's usually the city attack bonus policies that always keep left over untill the end.

Here is a discussion I started about a new system, giving a bonus upon completing a branch.

 

[OrsonM]

Even if you're going for a Culture win it's still always best to go cherry picking. Taking the policies you want when you want them.

If you want a culture win you can always fill up the leftover policies later. For me it's usually the city attack bonus policies that always keep left over untill the end.

Here is a discussion I started about a new system, giving a bonus upon completing a branch.

Oh I had thought about something similar (but using Diablo 2-like synergies), and that completing a branch would affect diplomacy (either in a positive or negative way).

The entire system could be vastly improved if the game would allow you to save up your points. Originally that was the idea (as heard on the podcast) but for some reason they changed it by release date (perhaps people were exploiting it?).

 

[duxup]

I'd like to jump around but there are some great options deeper in those trees. Unless I'm going for a cultural victory and pounding out the culture (in that case I can always go back) I tend to stick out a branch until I at least get some of the deeper more powerful options.

 

[joncnunn]

Full tree is only for unlocking achievements.
Even if going for a cultural victory where you will need to fill out 5 trees, it's often best to jump around and get what is the most needed at that moment (other than not opening a 6th tree if going for cultural)

So, this thread is inspired by slobberinbear's post in this thread:

Emphasis mine.

That post kind of crystallized something I've been wondering about more and more: once you open a policy tree, is it best to stick with it until it's completed, or is there no harm in jumping around for specific bonuses here and there? in other words, is there a "grand design" to each tree that you miss out on or whose efficiency is lost if you don't see it through uninterrupted?