Political Philosophy discussion

What I can't figure out for the love of everything is why the US don't just go and nuke China and call it a day.
I mean, just think about this statement. The whole goal of all policy right now outside of pandering to the oligarchs is to do everything necessary to keep nukes from being used anywhere by anyone. We've sacrificed a lot of our values to try to keep this genie in its bottle over the years.
 
Rich and/or powerfuil people are never going to give up their respective positions of power. Look at someone as inconsequential as the president of Kazhakstan or Belarus, killing hundreds of his people just to preserve his position of power. Conflict between China and the US is unavoidable as long as the economic system doesn't change, and that's not happening either. As much as it sucks, it'd be better to be proactive about it, the longer the US wait the bigger the mess when it finally happens.
If it was me, I'd disarm all nukes and put an end to consumerism right now. End globalization next, and people can go back to live meaningful lives in their homes. But they're not willing to do either, so just go on and deal with the eventual consequences sooner rather than later. There might be a civilization to salvage if one power can still overcome the other, if they're equal there's not going to be anything left once they duke it out.
For the record I despise the US as global overlords, but that position comes with responsibilities, responsibilities they've not fulfilled for the sake of enriching oligarchs even more. China isn't playing along anymore, they've taken all they could from globalization and now they're doing their own thing, claiming their vital space, their cultural space, their identity as different from the rest of the world. We've seen this happen a few times already to pretend we don't know what's next. Difference is, China was entirely enabled by the US to do this. It's baffling, honestly. Again I can't figure out what on earth are they thinking by letting this all unfold. In a few years, we are all going to be so, so sorry China was let free to become the global dominant power.
 
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The only thing that the long term effects of that policy did is give China tens of millions of excess, disposable, not marriable military aged males. For now they seem content forcing Uyghur women into marrying Han males, but an excess of 80+ millions of men to marry off is going to require a lot more than that.
Not only that, but instead of embracing things that could ease this tension, such as LGBTQ+ values, pornography, polygamy... they're banning them, and they're enforcing a masculinity cult and withdrew the one child policy with the goal of further growing their population. Expansionistic and aggressive demographic policies.
Incidentally, it's not like there isn't a war with China due to lack of motivation or fear of loss of life. It's just because some very rich people would lose money if it happened. That's all that's holding the global peace. If there wasn't a bunch of billionaires standing to lose a lot of money war would've already happened a while ago. We (as in our worth as human lives) and our idealistic values of peace and tolerance are completely irrelevant in this regard.
 
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China was entirely enabled by the US to do this. It's baffling, honestly. Again I can't figure out what on earth are they thinking by letting this all unfold
This is because the global oligarchies underneath it all absolutely love lending to both sides in the biggest conflicts they can arrange so that no matter what, they continue to grow the inescapable financial obligation to them by all participants. Therefore, they do all they can to arrange these kinds of emerging balances of power and resulting warfare.

Rich and/or powerfuil people are never going to give up their respective positions of power.
Nope. But if and when the system collapses, we need to be prepared with an understanding of how we can build a government that is actually for, of and by the people rather than the $, and how to keep it that way by enforcing that nobody can get a runaway snowball effect through a system of taxation and redistribution that works very similar to our 'win for losing' option - the further you're ahead, the more others are empowered to keep up with you. No loopholes in progressive taxation on additional income. Let us not ever allow $ to influence gov policy and find ways to keep the benefit of the people more important than raw profit alone.

At some point, the rich and powerful will implode the system with how much power they amass. It's an inevitability.
 
Incidentally, it's not like there isn't a war with China due to lack of motivation or fear of loss of life. It's just because some very rich people would lose money if it happened. That's all that's holding the global peace. If there wasn't a bunch of billionaires standing to lose a lot of money war would've already happened a while ago. We (as in our worth as human lives) and our idealistic values of peace and tolerance are completely irrelevant in this regard.
A smart enemy never destroys the works of his foe - for he wishes instead to steal them.
 
how we can build a government that is actually for, of and by the people

We can only hope. Marx believed that communism would be the unavoidable outcome of capitalism. Neomarxists had to deal with the various failures of communism, and moved on to say that communism is not, in fact, the unavoidable outcome of capitalism, but rather an opportunity that must be seized by raising political awareness. And it would be those who are outside of any power dynamic that would lead this change, ie marginalized groups. Instead, marginalised groups adopted the same power structures used by majorities and now not only use the same power structures, but pretend to do so righteusly. Perhaps Foucault and Adorno were right: escaping power structures is simply not possible, at best you can keep trying in a revolving cycle of ups and downs. Either way it's funny that people started arguing about gender issues, or at which specific point of the supply chain should we burn oil, precisely at the highest point of wealth inequality in history. It's not like a political sciences professor couldn't present you with a better government system that could theoretically work for a long time, it's that to enact it you would need a complete wipe of absolutely everything that is. That's why post-war periods tend to be so "good" for those who are born in them, ie baby boomers these days. They weren't only rebuilding the economy, they were rebuilding every aspect of life.

Let us not ever allow $ to influence gov policy and find ways to keep the benefit of the people more important than raw profit alone.
Money is a power token, it enables you to get someone else to do, give or perform something. In that regard, it's hard to imagine we could ever move beyond worshipping money, even in a post-scarcity scenario. On the other hand, money these days seem to be both as important as ever, and completely worthless. There's more money than ever, and yet there's also more inequality than ever. The UN says that overall the world is improving, but I have to question just how good the life of the hundreds of millions of new "middle class" people are. Living on 200$ a month might be well above poverty line in many countries, but my standard for overcoming poverty would be more than having a bedroll and a bowl of rice a day, environmental considerations aside. Either way since we are not in post-scarcity yet, though close, we can't even fathom a different use of money, and whether we'll be able to post-scarcity remains to be seen. Humans love exerting power, be it as little as paying a dollar to get someone else to whip you up a coffee on your break time. In that regard, money makes the whole ordeal much less of a mess. However, when money is completely detached from reality, ie finance, and becomes a game, even to the point of being devoid of its normal use as power exchange token (anyone cares anymore about public debt now that we've seen all it takes to deal with it is to pretend it doesn't matter?), that's an entirely political failure indeed. Finance, fractional reserves, compund interest, credit default swaps, "sovereign debt", "central banking"... this whole stuff is possibly the greatest evil we've ever concocted.
 
Then we have this: https://ourworldindata.org/history-of-poverty-has-just-begun
So some of you are afraid that Western countries will be reverted to what was 50 if not 100 years ago.
Then again income inequality in USA is very high.
https://ourworldindata.org/income-inequality
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/...=1970..latest&country=SGP~AUS~USA~SWE~CHE~NOR

https://ourworldindata.org/breaking-the-malthusian-trap
Science and technology do improve quality of life.
So if you spread misinformation like vaccines, nuclear power, 5G bad or climate change doesn't exist, then you want return to subsistence farming - exactly what you are afraid of (rich ensuring that everyone is poor).
 
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escaping power structures is simply not possible
This has to be true. Nature hates a vacuum and hates a vacuum of power above all. Again, absolute freedom quickly means the freedom to exploit for those who would deign to do so. Someone quickly sees that there is nothing to keep that from happening if they can only organize the effort to make it happen. We can, however, try to support mostly the majority voice, which is most often the most disadvantaged among us crying out for what will help them to survive and get a foothold on sustainability. I don't think a money-free system, or a system in which all economic development is managed purely by a state are inevitable conclusions, nor are they necessarily even desirable outcomes because if we make everyone equal no matter what they do or achieve, we make everyone a slave owned by the greater everyone, which is also not a great situation at all. We do also have to recognize that as much as we don't need a militarized police force getting up in our business and spreading stress and enforcing obedience everywhere, we do need one to exist to serve the need to deter exploitation of others, aka, criminal behavior. And it may need to be powerful to do it. Just as the military needs to be powerful to ensure security but also must be guided with wisdom.

Obviously money is power and power is like any 'currency', just like electricity, the more one has, the more one can use it to obtain more. This is why you must let it motivate society and the people in it, but not be a reflection of the right to survive nor of any outstanding right to live above the law or guide policy determinations more than any other person. Our net worth is NOT our actual value as people and somehow we must divorce this idea.
 
The vast majority of Canadians are vaccinated and there is more covid in Canada then ever before.
It should be clear to everyone that masks and vaccines are not effective enough to stop the spread of corona virus.
Everyone will end up getting the virus.
Introducing new mandates and lockdowns is stupid at this point. There is no logic to it.
We have had the worst response to covid of all countries because of our leaders and media. And it's far from over.
Justin Trudeau needs to go next election. CBC needs to go in the trash too, and so does the opposition leader Erin OTool.
Go truckers!
 
The vast majority of Canadians are vaccinated and there is more covid in Canada then ever before.
It should be clear to everyone that masks and vaccines are not effective enough to stop the spread of corona virus.
Everyone will end up getting the virus.
Introducing new mandates and lockdowns is stupid at this point. There is no logic to it.
We have had the worst response to covid of all countries because of our leaders and media. And it's far from over.
Justin Trudeau needs to go next election. CBC needs to go in the trash too, and so does the opposition leader Erin OTool.
Go truckers!
They should let run virus run wild globally - that is no restrictions or anything.
Pension crisis would be solved and global average IQ would increase. :sarcasm:
I bet everyone would get covid by now :D
 
The virus has run wild globally. Pretty much everyone will get it. Covid did rip through nursing homes and cleared them out.
The politicians have convinced us that they have ways to control it and we just need to listen to them.
Their plan didn't work. It must be abandoned because it hurts many canadians in different ways (not me though).
 
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The virus has run wild globally. Pretty much everyone will get it. Covid did rip through nursing homes and cleared them out.
The politicians have convinced us that they have ways to control it and we just need to listen to them.
Their plan didn't work. It must be abandoned because it hurts many canadians in different ways (not me though).
There was no speedrun though :D
 
Trucker from WoodStock drives to Ottawa on his own dime to support freedom in Ottawa, Canada - YouTube
This guy is right - the vaccine is to protect the vaccinated person, it does not protect the people around that person.
Everyone can spread the virus.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has tried so hard to divide us, but it's backfiring. I never seen so many Quebec flags in Ottawa. They usually don't like us English much.

Edit: Everyone needs to prepare to get covid. Anyone who is old or not healthy should get vaccine and unhealthy people need to work towards improving health if possible.
 
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Anyone who is old or not healthy should get vaccine and unhealthy people need to work towards improving health if possible.
I strongly believe anyone and everyone SHOULD get the vaccine because even if you are young and healthy and likely to survive it, this is not a cold or flu. What happens is the virus, as most viruses do, enters the cells of the tissues it likes in the body that it can access and it reprograms the cell to become a manufacturer of the virus, hijacking not only the normal function of the cell but making it an enemy of the body that is very difficult for the system to sort from the healthy cells.

The problem with Covid, and this varies a lot throughout all the variants we hardly even can say we understand, is that it has shown the ability to get deep into the body into the core organ structures which is what it likes most to infect. Lungs, Heart, Liver, etc. So then the body figures out where it's under attack and it goes to attack those cells with the precision of a nuclear bombing raid, uncaring which are and which are NOT healthy because it doesn't have time to make that determination, or even possibly the ability to. So it wipes out a huge fraction of your most exposed cells in your primary survival organs, leaving permanent scarring and damage. At the same time, the anti-bodies are doing what they can to deny the ability of the virus to get to other cells and enter them as well, which is largely what the vaccines are there to help with, which is sometimes a benefit, sometimes failing because Covid is so highly mutagenic that the body may not be as ready as we think for this or that particular variety. The RNA thing so many are so afraid of is a brilliant strategy to try to make a more adaptive vaccine based on longstanding research into theories on how to create a more generic flu vaccine and of course it's not a perfect shield like less mutagenic diseases can be prepared for. AIDS has a similar problem which is why it's been so difficult to create a true cure - or if they have they at least have the excuse that its still proven elusive which gives the profit motive based maintenance drug solution instead.

My point is, Covid is not often a direct killer. It lets the body do it for you by wrecking your organs. Many of those who died from it were perfectly healthy and had a heart attack weeks after getting 'over it', not realizing they were in any further danger. I've known gym rats to pass suddenly this way and the most aggressive form in China had people falling over dead left and right for this reason - thinking themselves functionally recovered.

TRY to avoid getting it to begin with. I'm the last one to dodge the bullet at my place of employment, presumably because I've been working out of the home since just before this all got underway.

I do think it's kinda interesting that MAYBE the whole fantasy fix of Ivermectin has shown some actual scientific value. Even a broken clock is right a few times a day and sometimes what looks like snake oil sales, whether snake oil or not, may actually work now and then. Still a bad idea to take the horse pills... just a touch too much there. By a mile.
 
Don't listen to Canadian media or government (bottom videos). If anyone wants to see what's goin on all we got are cell phones and youtube and stuff (top videos).

Yeah, thanks to cell phone cameras, the whole world knows that the "protesters" carried Nazi flags, Confederacy flags, and 3% flags. Really good crowd you're associating yourself with.

This is why discussions should always be kept focused on the mod itself, otherwise someone will hijack it to soapbox about their personal ideologies, usually with pretty awful results.
 
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