[NFP] POLL: Civilization: historical or fantasy game?

[ehecatzin]

Man I had just written about how much I hate vampires in civ....and how I can rationalize every other secret society but the vampire one being to blantant, but the more I think about it, It's an optional mode, if I just get in the mood I'll just play civ with a fantasy flair to it...sort of like if it was Fullmetal Alchemist ,Eberron, or Assasins Creed world.

I guess Mods that just rename the stuff to historical counterparts is surely expected. tho it would be nice if the devs did this as an option, because mechanically they seem so cool, it would be a shame if they put away too many people due to the fantasy elements.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I guess Mods that just rename the stuff to historical counterparts is surely expected. tho it would be nice if the devs did this as an option, because mechanically they seem so cool, it would be a shame if they put away too many people due to the fantasy elements.

I can understand the names to be immersive breaking. I would prefer the name Gothic Castle over Vampire Castle and it would still fundamentally stay the same mechanically.
That being said I also have problem with other names for infrastructure in the game as well such as Water Park, which clearly isn't a water park at all but a boardwalk/pier.
Warlord's throne is another good example when all you have to do is make it a Throne room.

 

[Mr. Shadows]

There are times when good game mechanics are more important than historical accuracy but the setting, tone and atmosphere should be historical. The franchises that specialize in sci fi, fantasy and horror are always going to be better at their respective genres. Civ should concentrate on it's own strengths and give us an epic historical setting. Trying to be all things to all people robs the game of it's identity. I don't understand why they aren't leaning into the things that make Civ great. The fact that we're having this conversation means something is very wrong with the franchise.

 

[Zaarin]

Alchemy was practiced in the middle ages and ley lines make about as much sense as trying to figure out who built Stonehenge.

I mean, we can't put a name to them, but we have a pretty good idea who built Stonehenge--the same people who built the dolmens in Brittany and structures like Tara and Newgrange in Ireland. We very reasonably call them the Megalith Builders, and we understand them to be the pre-Celtic Bronze Age inhabitants of the British Isles and (presumably) the adjacent Atlantic coast of France.

 

[The Civs 6]

Just a thought - maybe Firaxis screwed up their market research???

 

[GenyaArikado]

unlikely. This is a small poll in a dedicated fansite and even then more than half of the people don't care. Also the biggest Civ4 mod that everyone wants recreated is a fantasy mod lol

 

[oSiyeza]

I added it in another post already, but this needs to be posted here as well.

From Civilization 1:

No room for SF stuff in Civ?... I think you may be thinking in the wrong franchise.

 

[Jewelrunna]

I'm fine with less historical stuff, or some Sci-Fi stuff in the future eras of the game. I'm also ok with this fantasy stuff we're seeing in the NFP, provided that it's locked behind an optional mode, so that I can always go back to playing "normal" Civ.

Would I prefer more game modes that add stuff that's actually based in history? Certainly, but hey, I won't look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[Gedemon]

I added it in another post already, but this needs to be posted here as well.

From Civilization 1:

View attachment 563090

No room for SF stuff in Civ?... I think you may be thinking in the wrong franchise.

Science Fiction is fine in Civilization, unless you want to stop the tech tree at the date of release of the game, without any anticipation.

The problem is that the pool doesn't allow a choice between the genre (SF/Mythology/Fantasy)

 

[oSiyeza]

Science Fiction is fine in Civilization, unless you want to stop the tech tree at the date of release of the game, without any anticipation.

The problem is that the pool doesn't allow a choice between the genre (SF/Mythology/Fantasy)

I agree, the thing is that civ has never been a hard historical hame. And I think we are as a community overreacting a lot about this. The game is not in any risk of devolving into a fantasy game.

After 4 years, 2 expansion packs, and 6 DLCs the devs have decided to play with the idea of adding some non-historical things they wanted, and as a result, we got the NFP, where only a small optional fraction of the content has been non-historical. And Im greatful for that. This is awesome, and new content is better than no content even if some of it is more suited to the liking of other players. I'm happy that the game is also giving other people nice things to play with together with the content Im looking for the most.

The devs also have said that next we will have more historical modes.

How come there is a panic reaction about a non issue? Nobody is betraying the spirit of the game.

Why can’t we just calm down a bit? Is pretty obvious that Civilization 6 will never be a fantasy game. And no one is treating with making the hypothetical next game a fantasy game either.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Why can’t we just calm down a bit? Is pretty obvious that Civilization 6 will never be a fantasy game. And no one is treating with making the hypothetical next game a fantasy game either.

By next game you mean core game right?
Because I wouldn't mind a fantasy spin off.

 

[oSiyeza]

By next game you mean core game right?
Because I wouldn't mind a fantasy spin off.

I actually think that BE deserves another chance. With more alien creatures and more personality It could have been an awesome game.

About a more fantasy themed one? I wont lie, I'm not as attracted to the idea, but I would still buy it if it looked fun

Unless we Cthulhu and fish people; thing-like body snatchers; or xenomorphs in a terror-strategy spin-off then I will sign first.

 

[8housesofelixir]

If anything, I have bigger complaints that although I can play Ethiopia without vampires, I can't play the Maya/GC without that stupid fountain of youth/paititi wonder pack.

If I remember correctly, Civ5 has King Solomon's Mine as a natural wonder in the BNW DLC, which is basically at the same level of imagination as Fountain of Youth or Paititi - or even worse, since it's mainly based on a modern novel rather than century-long legends. And to my knowledge BNW has a good reputation.

I don't think civ as a franchise is really grounded in "real" history in the first place, so I'm fine with some additional fictitious elements, as long as these elements have a good synergy with other game mechanics. It's a game after all.

 

[Gedemon]

I agree, the thing is that civ has never been a hard historical hame. And I think we are as a community overreacting a lot about this. The game is not in any risk of devolving into a fantasy game.

After 4 years, 2 expansion packs, and 6 DLCs the devs have decided to play with the idea of adding some non-historical things they wanted, and as a result, we got the NFP, where only a small optional fraction of the content has been non-historical. And Im greatful for that. This is awesome, and new content is better than no content even if some of it is more suited to the liking of other players. I'm happy that the game is also giving other people nice things to play with together with the content Im looking for the most.

The devs also have said that next we will have more historical modes.

How come there is a panic reaction about a non issue? Nobody is betraying the spirit of the game.

Why can’t we just calm down a bit? Is pretty obvious that Civilization 6 will never be a fantasy game. And no one is treating with making the hypothetical next game a fantasy game either.

If this were a general overreaction, I'd wish that all of them on the forum were as gentle as this one... But for me there is no mass panic there, mostly opinions on what should or shouldn't be in the game.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I actually think that BE deserves another chance. With more alien creatures and more personality It could have been an awesome game.

About a more fantasy themed one? I wont lie, I'm not as attracted to the idea, but I would still buy it if it looked fun

Unless we a Cthulhu, fish people, and thing like body snatchers, in a terror spin-off then I will sign first.

I'm not a big Sci-Fi person.
I'm mostly interested in a mythology spin-off that can still have historical civilizations but instead lead by mythological gods and have mythological creatures as UUs along with usual historical ones.

 

[oSiyeza]

If this were a general overreaction, I'd wish that all of them on the forum were as gentle as this one... But for me there is no mass panic there, mostly opinions on what should or shouldn't be in the game.

While most people has been gentle and expressed positive opinions of the NFP despite disagreeing with some elements. It is hard to deny that it has been also a very emotional reaction, even if only from a minority of players.

A very vocal minority can easily change the tone of a entire conversation. At least, I was having the impression of that happening. Though my impression can also be biased by some specific comments appearing to me more representative than they really are. In any case, I considered it as an appropiate thing to be said.

Also I think noone has been rude, but more like we were arguing from a wrong perspective.

 

[Xandinho]

There are times when good game mechanics are more important than historical accuracy but the setting, tone and atmosphere should be historical. The franchises that specialize in sci fi, fantasy and horror are always going to be better at their respective genres. Civ should concentrate on it's own strengths and give us an epic historical setting. Trying to be all things to all people robs the game of it's identity. I don't understand why they aren't leaning into the things that make Civ great. The fact that we're having this conversation means something is very wrong with the franchise.

I agree. I know that these unrealistic modes are optional (although they added Bermuda Triangle that teleports ships in the base game), but I still see it as a missed opportunity to include a more historic mode.
If they launched a spinoff with legendary civilizations like Atlantis and creatures like vampires, unicorns and dragons, I would certainly be happy to buy and play. But these elements in civilization are immersion breaks and I'm already afraid that they will add vampirism as a disease in a hypothetical mode of diseases.

Elements of future science fiction bothers me less because we don't know what the future will look like in anyway. But it's still a thing that I'd prefer not having in civilization.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I agree. I know that these unrealistic modes are optional (although they added Bermuda Triangle that teleports ships in the base game), but I still see it as a missed opportunity to include a more historic mode.
If they launched a spinoff with legendary civilizations like Atlantis and creatures like vampires, unicorns and dragons, I would certainly be happy to buy and play. But these elements in civilization are immersion breaks and I'm already afraid that they will add vampirism as a disease in a hypothetical mode of diseases.

Elements of future science fiction bothers me less because we don't know what the future will look like in anyway. But it's still a thing that I'd prefer not having in civilization.

I'm pretty sure that these are going to be the only fantasy like game modes we are getting if I remember correctly. So I don't think there is anything to worry about.

 

[JJOne]

If I remember correctly, Civ5 has King Solomon's Mine as a natural wonder in the BNW DLC, which is basically at the same level of imagination as Fountain of Youth or Paititi - or even worse, since it's mainly based on a modern novel rather than century-long legends.

I would hardly call Haggard "modern".

 

[Xandinho]

I'm pretty sure that these are going to be the only fantasy like game modes we are getting if I remember correctly. So I don't think there is anything to worry about.

I hope so. I really liked the idea of secret societies and I hope they bring it back to Civ7, better worked and without vampires and things like that.