[Extension] [POLL] More Wonders for VP

[m0nk3yst1ck]

How did you noticed, that Ranged unit bonus is applied otherwise?

In your screenshot, if you calculate the final ranged attack strength manually, it's supposed to be 10.5 with the rough terrain bonus, not 9.9. Unlike melee land units, it seems that a ranged land unit gets the bonus only when it itself is in rough terrain.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Can you verify if this still applies with latest release 0.12? I zeroed one paramter.
Maybe you should post it to Github of VP?

 

[adan_eslavo]

It means that this second 10% paramter is also not counted to the calculation.

 

[adan_eslavo]

I think both types should be calculated same way.

 

[m0nk3yst1ck]

In v12, for melee units imperial army continues to work fine, both in terms of the final strength calculation and the strength bonus breakdown. For ranged units the strength bonus breakdown continues to appear the same as it does with melee units, but there is still no boost to the final ranged strength against enemy units that are in rough terrain. In the attached screenshots, the composite bowman attacking the unit in rough terrain should have a final ranged strength of 12.1, not 11. In this version, when manually calculating, a friendly ranged unit in rough terrain no longer receives the bonus against all enemy units no matter their terrain, which is good. But now if you manually calculate the final ranged strength of a ranged unit, you'll see the bonus is not given in any circumstance.

Spoiler :

Fleet of the sun works properly now in accordance with its description. For a more encompassing promotion, maybe you could give +1 visibility range instead? I'm not sure.

Kamikaze works perfectly now, on the same turn as the wonder is built in fact. If forcibly spawning the wonder and the two dummies using IGE, I still need to reload the game and then wait a turn, but there are no bugs this time.

 

[adan_eslavo]

So maybe this parameter RoughRangedAttackMod is needed? Huh. I will revert this small change then.
Nevertheless, you should post this issue on github.

1. they should cut unnecessary bonusses shown in strength comparison, which are not used in the current battle;
   
2. show bonus for archers when it is actually calculated;
   
3. they should fix/explain why melee and ranged units use different methods.

So we know one thing for sure. RoughAttack is used on melee and works when enemy is on rough terrain. RoughRangedAttackMod works for Ranged and when your unit is on Rough. RoughDefense works probably for both, when your unit is on Rough, because both types use to defend, even ranged units.

I will post v0.13 soon with 2 new WWs and this fix.

What about IsNoCoast now? Should be fine like before using database field. Now I use lua like many versions ago.


@pineappledan: you can look at brief history of my country and even current situation, to see how religion can seriously impact on country politics, diplomacy, interior, decisions etc. Even in XXI century.

Your mod will be standalone mod, right? You have only plans to use his victory types extension. Is it working now (victory types mod), or is it still in developement phase?

 

[pineappledan]

@pineappledan: you can look at brief history of my country and even current situation, to see how religion can seriously impact on country politics, diplomacy, interior, decisions etc. Even in XXI century.

There are no countries in the world today where religion and belief don't have a strong influence over modern geopolitics. I'm looking forward to adding a little religious flavor back into the margins of the 'Secular Ages'

Your mod will be standalone mod, right? You have only plans to use his victory types extension. Is it working now (victory types mod), or is it still in development phase?

The plan I have right now is to split the underlying mechanics (a new specialist/GP, belief rework), the new victories, and the new ideologies into 3 separate mods that need to load in that order.
The Beliefs rework builds off of me and HungryForFood's New Beliefs mod, which is finished and can be found here, but I am working to expand it
@amateurgamer88's Victories mod is operational and can be downloaded here, but not feature-complete.
The New Ideologies mod has not been started, but I have spent a lot of time working on the design proposals for each ideology, which can be looked at here

Edit: If you want to help, you should totally join us! It's me, @amateurgamer88 and @InkAxis right now, but there's a bunch of unresolved UI issues to get new victory and ideology stuff into the game, and you have far more experience/talent at those things. And this time when we collaborate I won't be so much dead weight

 

[adan_eslavo]

There are no countries in the world today where religion and belief don't have a strong influence over modern geopolitics. I'm looking forward to adding a little religious flavor back into the margins of the 'Secular Ages'

The plan I have right now is to split the underlying mechanics (a new specialist/GP, belief rework), the new victories, and the new ideologies into 3 separate mods that need to load in that order.
The Beliefs rework builds off of me and HungryForFood's New Beliefs mod, which is finished and can be found here, but I am working to expand it
@amateurgamer88's Victories mod is operational and can be downloaded here, but not feature-complete.
The New Ideologies mod has not been started, but I have spent a lot of time working on the design proposals for each ideology, which can be looked at here

Edit: If you want to help, you should totally join us! It's me, @amateurgamer88 and @InkAxis right now, but there's a bunch of unresolved UI issues to get new victory and ideology stuff into the game, and you have far more experience/talent at those things. And this time when we collaborate I won't be so much dead weight

I would really like to participate, but I have some other work to do. I updated 2 mods (PO, ANW) and I'm much closer towards v0.13 of MW. Then I would like to play my first game for about 2 years? Huh, that would be a milestone!

Why do you make new Belief mod, when beliefs in VP are in constant change and balance? What is the point?

 

[adan_eslavo]

The Victories mod is at "stuck" state atm, right? I was observing it for a while, but no progress was made.

 

[pineappledan]

AG got really busy, so the extra victory is on pause right now.

re: new beliefs. I know, they keep changing every other version. That’s why I originall just had the mod add new beliefs and not touch old ones, but then G touched my new beliefs first by incorporating some of the code we implemented for the new beliefs into base VP

 

[adan_eslavo]

Seems complicated. Why don't they incorporate all your mod then? It's not that big.

 

[m0nk3yst1ck]

So maybe this parameter RoughRangedAttackMod is needed?

To avoid ranged units not getting any bonus at all, I suppose it's necessary for now. Perhaps if it's possible you could change RoughAttack to be granted when your melee unit is in rough terrain for the sake of consistency? Such a change would make RoughAttack consistent with RoughDefense as well.

Nevertheless, you should post this issue on github.

1. they should cut unnecessary bonusses shown in strength comparison, which are not used in the current battle;
   
2. show bonus for archers when it is actually calculated;
   
3. they should fix/explain why melee and ranged units use different methods.

Okay. I don't understand the intricate details about what causes this issue (don't know anything about modding), so I'll try to paraphrase these points as accurately as possible in the bug report. For the first point, are you referring to how in v11 both melee and ranged units in the strength comparison each showed both the melee rough attack and ranged rough attack bonuses? Also, should I use the example of the ranged bonus appearing but not doing anything when your archer is in open terrain and the enemy is in rough terrain?

For the second point, I'll use the example of a friendly archer in rough terrain attacking an enemy in open terrain.

Just out of the blue, I discovered two issues of excessive and lacking flanking bonuses appearing in the strength comparison. The final strength calculation is correct in both cases (based on the final position of your unit after the attack command), but in case one there is an excessive bonus, and in case two there is a lacking bonus. Is this a known bug? Perhaps it is related to points one and two?

Spoiler flanking bonus :

Reading your third point, are you referring to why RoughAttack doesn't work for ranged?

So we know one thing for sure. RoughAttack is used on melee and works when enemy is on rough terrain. RoughRangedAttackMod works for Ranged and when your unit is on Rough. RoughDefense works probably for both, when your unit is on Rough, because both types use to defend, even ranged units.

Yup that looks like a good summary. For RoughDefense, I tested in-game using IGE and confirmed your description.

What about IsNoCoast now? Should be fine like before using database field. Now I use lua like many versions ago.

I think it still doesn't work. I still can't build Red Fort in an inland river and lake city.

 

[adan_eslavo]

To avoid ranged units not getting any bonus at all, I suppose it's necessary for now. Perhaps if it's possible you could change RoughAttack to be granted when your melee unit is in rough terrain for the sake of consistency? Such a change would make RoughAttack consistent with RoughDefense as well.

Okay. I don't understand the intricate details about what causes this issue (don't know anything about modding), so I'll try to paraphrase these points as accurately as possible in the bug report. For the first point, are you referring to how in v11 both melee and ranged units in the strength comparison each showed both the melee rough attack and ranged rough attack bonuses? Also, should I use the example of the ranged bonus appearing but not doing anything when your archer is in open terrain and the enemy is in rough terrain?

For the second point, I'll use the example of a friendly archer in rough terrain attacking an enemy in open terrain.

Just out of the blue, I discovered two issues of excessive and lacking flanking bonuses appearing in the strength comparison. The final strength calculation is correct in both cases (based on the final position of your unit after the attack command), but in case one there is an excessive bonus, and in case two there is a lacking bonus. Is this a known bug? Perhaps it is related to points one and two?

Spoiler flanking bonus :

View attachment 602452 View attachment 602453

Reading your third point, are you referring to why RoughAttack doesn't work for ranged?

Yup that looks like a good summary. For RoughDefense, I tested in-game using IGE and confirmed your description.

I think it still doesn't work. I still can't build Red Fort in an inland river and lake city.

From what I heard from you it seems that these 2 flags are used for 2 different types of units. RoghAttack for melee, and RoughRangedAttack for ranged. Why they are treated differently? That's a question to VP makers.

Strength comparison should be same as actual calculations. Any differences must be posted on VP github. I use only default SQL parameters.

Yeah, I also noticed strange flanking bonuses values in strength comparison. This should be posted too.

About IsNoCoast: I left SQL values and reanimated lua code. I will delete the SQL totally, and check by myself. Thanks for reporting.

 

[adan_eslavo]

@m0nk3yst1ck I tested my latest beta and I think the IsNoCoast problem is gone. Will be fixed with v0.13.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Can someone using VP 7-1-3 post me the 43-civ version of AssignStartingPlots.lua file? I would update it and put into modfolder for others who use such version. Current one is very, very, very obsolete.

 

[m0nk3yst1ck]

From what I heard from you it seems that these 2 flags are used for 2 different types of units. RoghAttack for melee, and RoughRangedAttack for ranged. Why they are treated differently? That's a question to VP makers.

Are you referring to why RoughAttack works when enemy is in rough terrain but RoughRangedAttack works when you are in rough terrain? I was wondering, why can't RoughAttack be used for both melee and ranged units (but for ranged affect RCS instead)? Is there really a need for RoughRangedAttack or am I missing something?

 

[adan_eslavo]

Are you referring to why RoughAttack works when enemy is in rough terrain but RoughRangedAttack works when you are in rough terrain? I was wondering, why can't RoughAttack be used for both melee and ranged units (but for ranged affect RCS instead)? Is there really a need for RoughRangedAttack or am I missing something?

It is exactly as you said. It probably could be one promotion. Probably. But maybe people who pragrammed this, intentionally made them different. I don't know.

 

[MostlyLurk]

Can someone using VP 7-1-3 post me the 43-civ version of AssignStartingPlots.lua file? I would update it and put into modfolder for others who use such version. Current one is very, very, very obsolete.

Just a heads up, I mainly lurk and don't usually post. Not sure if I posted the right file, but I got it from the (6c) 43 Civ CP folder. Says it was last modified on 6/8/2020. Sorry ahead of time if it's not correct.

Also, I'm confused on how to install your mod. I'm having problems using the 43 Civ version with this mod because it sometimes it crashes or if it doesn't, luxury and strategic resources don't spawn at all (bonus resources still do). I couldn't find the "ImportantNotes.txt" file like it says in the directions from Known issues for 43 civ. So, I just copied the AssignStartingPlots.lua from your mod into the (6c) 43 Civ CP folder, which didn't seem to do anything. I'm using v.12.

I backed up the original VP file just in case and that's what I'm uploading now. I'd appreciate help with how to use your mod for the 43 Civ version thank you.

 

[adan_eslavo]

It is really outdated version inside my mod folder (more than a year) and that's why I want to update it to the latest one. What version of VP you're using?
I will clarify the instruction. If 43-civ file was up to date, then you should copy it from the folder Addons/43-civ to 2.NaturalWonders/DefaultFiles and substitute.
If you use wrong or outdated version with 43-civ installation, then crashes may occur.

EDIT:
OP updated with more detailed info.

 

[MostlyLurk]

It is really outdated version inside my mod folder (more than a year) and that's why I want to update it to the latest one. What version of VP you're using?
I will clarify the instruction. If 43-civ file was up to date, then you should copy it from the folder Addons/43-civ to 2.NaturalWonders/DefaultFiles and substitute.
If you use wrong or outdated version with 43-civ installation, then crashes may occur.

EDIT:
OP updated with more detailed info.

Thank you for the instructions, it worked with just your mod and VP installed. I am using version 7-1-3 of VP and I uploaded AssignStartingPlots.lua from the (6c) 43 Civ CP folder of the VP mod.