[Extension] [POLL] More Wonders for VP

[Tekamthi]

Like many of these ideas, but voted other: serpent mound in neolithic or ancient

 

[adan_eslavo]

modinfo file for the most recent More Wonders for VP (v0.14.8) is labeled as v1
Not sure if affecting anything but I couldn't add the planner for Wonders (but it is okay I don't use)

It's v1, because it's still in "alpha" stage numbered v0.X. It doesn't affect anything.

Do you use this planner for Wonders? IT's completely fine. I use it all the time.

 

[JohnnyNT]

I asked in "quick questions/quick answers" but will also here. Playing new VP 2.1.1 with More Wonders for VP and Wonder Planner. Wonders are becoming obsolete when I'm 2 or more eras ahead, is there an easy switch to stop this behaviour? I'd love to get myself more wonders.

EDIT: I think I found it, MW-MAX-ERA in line 37 of MainRulesForWorldWonders.sql

 

[adan_eslavo]

I asked in "quick questions/quick answers" but will also here. Playing new VP 2.1.1 with More Wonders for VP and Wonder Planner. Wonders are becoming obsolete when I'm 2 or more eras ahead, is there an easy switch to stop this behaviour? I'd love to get myself more wonders.

EDIT: I think I found it, MW-MAX-ERA in line 37 of MainRulesForWorldWonders.sql

Exactly. This is the one of the new mechanics that should prevent yield spam and late game problems when you build too many WWs and end the game in Industrial Adding tons of new WWs shouldn't mean the balance is broken. I want to keep it, but add the diversity.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Like many of these ideas, but voted other: serpent mound in neolithic or ancient

By "other" I meant other in Enlightenment Era. I can add your suggestion to the op (I have there a list for such WWs).

 

[Tekamthi]

oops my poor reading skills... i will change mine

 

[gwennog]

I can add your suggestion to the op (I have there a list for such WWs).

I think you used the Serpent Mound as an UI in the project Unique City-States finally, no ?

 

[adan_eslavo]

Nope? There's still base Mound that were added by E.

 

[gwennog]

Nope? There's still base Mound that were added by E.

OK sorry, reference to this conversation:

@adan_eslavo the Tiwanaku CS proposed by pineappledan features the Sunken Courtyard that has the same model of Leugi's mod UTI so better to use the UTI from Poverty Point as suggested by Padre.

I thought you included it.

 

[adan_eslavo]

How many votes Old Bridge in Mostar gives?
Seems in my game - large, epic it gives 6 votes which seems too much. Kamehameha has no other WW that gives extra votes, Buddhas of Bamyan gives for DoF.
View attachment 622217 View attachment 622218

Ok, I asked on dicord. It's based on CS number, so if you started with 24 CSs or more then it was multiplied by 3 (per 8 CSs). So it's all correct.

 

[adan_eslavo]

OK sorry, reference to this conversation:


I thought you included it.

Nah, Sunken Courtyard is in distant plans. I must look closer on that mod and choose the improvement for Mound too @pineappledan talked about.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Ok, so crack in my eye is finally removed. v0.14.9 only on Github. I updated More Wonders with some small patch removing +1 Culture from most of World Wonders. You may say: It will break the balance! The truth is that balance has already be broken. Nah just kidding. The reason why I did that is:

• all new WWs added by this mode are sort of specialized (if they do not rely on culture, they just don't have it);
• most of base VP WWs have tons of other bonuses, smaller or greater, so this one yield becomes annoying addition, which just doesn't fit the theme;
• some World Wonders, especially early ones, doesn't use any of the "unusual" yields added by VP, and that's sad;
• I added so many Cultured WWs, that any player pursuing the Cultural Victory will have a choice; all those +1 shouldn't make any difference.

If any World Wonder will suffer the change seriously, then I will decide what to do with it (add another yield either readd the removed ). But from what I saw, most WWs are strong enough to handle the change.

This means I substituted the +1 with other yields for some WWs, better for the particular WW theme. The full list of changes is here:

Removing Culture with Substitution:
- Terracota Army ==> +1 Production (for better theming; massive army need production; and it already has culture-based bonus)
- Forbidden Palace ==> +1 Gold (whole wonder uses gold, so why don't add flat one?)
- Stonehenge ==> +1 Science (science fits better and themes with the free Council)
- Pyramid ==> +1 Golden Age Point (it already has a GAP bonus, so matches better)
- Chichen Itza ==> +1 Golden Age Point (it already has a GAP bonus, so matches better)
- Statue of Zeus ==> +1 Great General Point (better theming for warmongers)
- Kremlin ==> +2 Great General Points (this wonder was just weak from what I saw; that's why it got +2)
- Great Lighthouse ==> +1 Great Admiral Point (early or even earliest (?) wonders with that yield; not many having that)

Just removing Culture:
- Machu Picchu
- Temple of Artemis
- Great Library
- Colossus
- Great Wall
- Himeji Castle
- Summer Palace
- Notre Dame
- Porcelain Tower
- Red Fort
- Slater Mill
- Brandenburg Gate
- Palace of Westminster
- Pentagon
- CN Tower
- Bletchley Park
- CERN
- Great Firewall
- Hubble
- ISS
- Grand Canal
- Crystal Palace
- UN
- Motherland Calls
- Prora Resort
- all HQs

MW Wonders that lost their Culture:
- Great Zimbabwe
- Darjeeling Himalayan Railway

 

[Olmer]

I don't sure, is it functionality provided by this mod, or by main VP mod, but I have a problem. As you can see at screenshots below, I have only 10 WW from different eras, but my penalty for new WW is 300% !!! Why?

 

[notaspambot]

The numbers have indeed been changed around, but looks like the localisation wasn't updated to go with it.

This is the current localisation by the way- you can see how the numbers are flat and aren't automatically updated:

		<Row Tag="TXT_KEY_WONDER_COST_INCREASE_METRIC">
			<Text>Additional [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production cost due to owned World Wonders: [COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]{1_Num}%[ENDCOLOR].[NEWLINE][ICON_PRODUCTION] Production cost increase metric:[NEWLINE][ICON_BULLET] Wonders from the same Era: [COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]25%.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][ICON_BULLET] Wonders from the previous Era: [COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]15%[ENDCOLOR].[NEWLINE][ICON_BULLET] Wonders from two Eras earlier: [COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]10%.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][ICON_BULLET] Note: Wonders three Eras earlier or more do not count towards the cost.</Text>
		</Row>

 

[adan_eslavo]

Current factors are even higher, reaching even 40% (I cannot exactly remember the numbers, github will tell you the truth). This change is to prevent late game yield inflation caused by too many WWs built by the player compared to standard VP. Here, the number of available WWs is so big you must choose what build, instead of building everything researched. Another cause is the chance given to the weaker players to build something and catch up with the leader.

Remember, the biggest penalty is for WWs from the same era, lesser for those from previous, and the least from all other. If you change the Era, you may meet the situation, where total penalty instantly drops from 300%, to let's say 220%. But if you build another WW, then it will start increasing again.

 

[adan_eslavo]

The numbers have indeed been changed around, but looks like the localisation wasn't updated to go with it.

This is the current localisation by the way- you can see how the numbers are flat and aren't automatically updated:

        <Row Tag="TXT_KEY_WONDER_COST_INCREASE_METRIC">
            <Text>Additional [ICON_PRODUCTION] Production cost due to owned World Wonders: [COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]{1_Num}%[ENDCOLOR].[NEWLINE][ICON_PRODUCTION] Production cost increase metric:[NEWLINE][ICON_BULLET] Wonders from the same Era: [COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]25%.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][ICON_BULLET] Wonders from the previous Era: [COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]15%[ENDCOLOR].[NEWLINE][ICON_BULLET] Wonders from two Eras earlier: [COLOR_POSITIVE_TEXT]10%.[ENDCOLOR][NEWLINE][ICON_BULLET] Note: Wonders three Eras earlier or more do not count towards the cost.</Text>
        </Row>

I must update the text. I thought it will do that automatically.

 

[adan_eslavo]

@Olmer Actual values are now 40%/35%/30%.

New version released. v0.14.10:

- buiding tooltips now show correct values for WW Production Cost penalties;
- penalties now marked red instead of green (because they are penalties, hello!)
- slightly improved that text.

 

[notaspambot]

Aw, I liked the green. I like defaulting to green because the contrast is just easier to read.

Also, PROMOTION_THULE has a RCS bonus in its description, but it doesn't seem to be part of the actual promotion.

EDIT: The internal TR bonus from Plain of Jars doesn't work. It's technically still functional, but looks to need a faith TR to apply its effects, which basically means never. Same as how you don't get production from food TRs if you build a stable.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Also, PROMOTION_THULE has a RCS bonus in its description, but it doesn't seem to be part of the actual promotion.

Good catch. Correcting.

EDIT: The internal TR bonus from Plain of Jars doesn't work. It's technically still functional, but looks to need a faith TR to apply its effects, which basically means never. Same as how you don't get production from food TRs if you build a stable.

Do you think changing it to other yield while moving faith as a base yield would help?

 

[adan_eslavo]

v0.14.11 released:

- fixed missing +5% RCS in Thule promotion;
- reworked Plain of Jars to work properly:
         ==> food bonus moved to Internal TRs
         ==> base faith boosted by +1;