Poll: What new Asian civilizations would you like to see in the Civ franchise?

[TahamiTsunami]

Since there are polls on new civs from Europe, Africa, and the Americas, I figured it's about time to do a poll for never before seen civs from Asia. This poll includes options from the Middle East and Tibet (Tibet may be extremely unlikely but I decided to include it as a choice regardless and other unlikely civs like the Mississippians and Puebloans have been in the polls before). As the name suggests, it will only be never before seen civs so this poll won't include civs from previous games like Babylonia, Hittites, Siam, etc.

With all of that out of the way, what are your top 5 new Asian civs and why?

 

[Imaus]

Sibir fills up a nice area on Earth maps and could be merged with Yakutia for some 'culture-civ' like the Celts.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Most of this voting is with respect to VI and it's generally tendency to want to fill map gaps.

First off, Timurids seem very likely to happen, since we don't have a Samarkand city-state yet, but we do have Kabul (ala Yerevan or Preslav). If we consider them part of the larger Gurkani paradigm, they fill a lot of historical time and geographic space in the same way the Phoenicia incorporates Carthage. I just don't see the Mughals happening as a civ separate from India; but the Timurids have just enough distance and better occupy the "stans" that they could still vicariously rep the Mughals.

Next, we have Burma and Vietnam. Vietnam was rarely imperialistic, and imo missed its opportunity for inclusion when it wasn't in R&F. But it is popular and could just barely squeak by as an "empire." Burma, on the other hand, less popular, politically problematic, but so easy to design. Paya UI, peacock icon, saung ancient theme. Also, very clearly imperial. Both are strong options with specific obstacles to inclusion. Against hope, I would prefer if both were included because SE Asia is one region that really deserves to be as densely populated as Europe.

Finally, Tibet and Yakutia. I find an elegant pattern forming with the inclusion of the Cree and Canada that I wish were continued in other large countries. Where we have the modern imperial power, but also the largest territoried/populous people within that country. We could have America and the Navajo (or Choctaw). We could have had Mexico and the Maya repping the Yucatan (and similarly we could have Brazil and the Tupi-Guarani). And we could have Russia and the Sakha Republic. It's the simplest way to represent the multicultural spectrum contained in each "big nation." Tibet somewhat gels with this paradigm too, and I'm really including it out of solidarity because--aside from the obvious--it's probably the best option for a new civ on the list, period.

(Would Yakutia be interesting as a civ? Probably not. It would aesthetically be very similar to Mongolia. I actually am leaning toward them better being a city-state, especially if we got a bit of a CS makeover with static leader images and some bonus ambience tracks. But I still feel compelled to throw it a bone because northern Asia is so empty and we have no one to really compete with Russia for all that land. This I think is the true appeal of an Inuit or Saami civ, btw. And yes I agree with Imaus that it could be blobbed a bit with Sibir.)

Oman is a close sixth for me so that gets runner up. There's a complicated balancing of interests between Morocco, the Berbers, Oman, and the Swahili and while I ultimately want these cultures represented I am not sure how necessary Oman is to representing Eastern Africa when the Swahili--although not an empire--had a fairly sophisticated trade network for centuries. And if I had to pick between Oman and Morocco, I would probably want Morocco to return, even if it looks like there is a substantial possibility we might actually be getting Oman over Morocco in VI.

 

[Patine]

Most of this voting is with respect to VI and it's generally tendency to want to fill map gaps.

First off, Timurids seem very likely to happen, since we don't have a Samarkand city-state yet, but we do have Kabul (ala Yerevan or Preslav). If we consider them part of the larger Gurkani paradigm, they fill a lot of historical time and geographic space in the same way the Phoenicia incorporates Carthage. I just don't see the Mughals happening as a civ separate from India; but the Timurids have just enough distance and better occupy the "stans" that they could still vicariously rep the Mughals.

Next, we have Burma and Vietnam. Vietnam was rarely imperialistic, and imo missed its opportunity for inclusion when it wasn't in R&F. But it is popular and could just barely squeak by as an "empire." Burma, on the other hand, less popular, politically problematic, but so easy to design. Paya UI, peacock icon, saung ancient theme. Also, very clearly imperial. Both are strong options with specific obstacles to inclusion. Against hope, I would prefer if both were included because SE Asia is one region that really deserves to be as densely populated as Europe.

Next, Tibet and Yakutia. I find an elegant pattern forming with the inclusion of the Cree and Canada that I wish were continued in other large countries. Where we have the modern imperial power, but also the largest territoried/populous people within that country. We could have America and the Navajo (or Choctaw). We could have had Mexico and the Maya repping the Yucatan (and similarly we could have Brazil and the Tupi-Guarani). And we could have Russia and the Sakha Republic. It's the simplest way to represent the multicultural spectrum contained in each "big nation." Tibet somewhat gels with this paradigm too, and I'm really including it out of solidarity because--aside from the obvious--it's probably the best option for a new civ on the list, period.

(Would Yakutia be interesting as a civ? Probably not. It would aesthetically be very similar to Mongolia. I actually am leaning toward them better being a city-state, especially if we got a bit of a CS makeover with static leader images and some bonus ambience tracks. But I still feel compelled to throw it a bone because northern Asia is so empty and we have no one to really compete with Russia for all that land. This I think is the true appeal of an Inuit or Saami civ, btw. And yes I agree with Imaus that it could be blobbed a bit with Sibir.)

Oman is a close sixth for me so that gets runner up. There's a complicated balancing of interests between Morocco, the Berbers, Oman, and the Swahili and while I ultimately want these cultures represented I am not sure how necessary Oman is to representing Eastern Africa when the Swahili--although not an empire--had a fairly sophisticated trade network for centuries. And if I had to pick between Oman and Morocco, I would probably want Morocco to return, even if it looks like there is a substantial possibility we might actually be getting Oman over Morocco in VI.

I'd like to know which Firaxis developer leaked to you, personally and verifiably, the "requirement" that a civilization MUST be an "empire" to be included, because you've repeatedly spoken of this view as though it were an objective design FACT, that you knew for sure over all of us, and not and opinion or estimation. For that matter, who leaked to you this "theme" you always quote as though you KNOW as fact over all of us? Until an answer is given, ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE you say invoking those ideas as absolutes is highly suspect, and potentially bunk and to be disregarded, completely discrediting you.

 

[Xandinho]

To be honest, I have to say that I don't have much knowledge about Asian Civilizations besides China. My choices will be more about personal desire than game's need.

My first choice would be Tibet, but I know that this is kind unlikely, so Nepal could be its replacement. Both civs are very interesting culture, but Nepal is the one that has chance to be included in the game.

I also voted for Vietnam and Burma. Vietnam is more popular, but if they included Burma I wouldn't complain.

Finally, I voted for Judah, a kind of Hebrew represetation would be very welcome. We don't have a Jewish civilization in the game. Also, I need to say that I really want to see the wonder Temple of Solomon in the game, at least .

Oman and Akkad are my honorable mensions here. Oman would be nice in Civ7, but I don't think it is necessary in Civ6, unless we are going to have two more expansions besides the third.

 

[Patine]

Oman and Akkad are my honorable mensions here. Oman would be nice in Civ7, but I don't think it is necessary in Civ6, unless we are going to have two more expansions besides the third.

Other than having a different sect of Islam being dominant, Oman is not really distinct from an Arabia civ (in fact it's even on the Arabian Peninsula, and has been traditionally less culturally distinct than Yemen next door), just as Morocco isn't (despite the fact Civ6's Arabia civ is led by a man who has neither an Arab nor was ever a Caliph, aside).

 

[Playsoneasy]

I think the GokTurks (aka the Celestial or Blue Turks) would be interesting. They were one of the first great Steppe Powers, ranged from the borders of Rome, Persia and China to India, and they controlled the Silk Road for many years too. They're certainly a strong contender for an expansionist, warfare oriented civ that is an alternative to the Huns and the Mongols.

 

[Patine]

I think the GokTurks (aka the Celestial or Blue Turks) would be interesting. They were one of the first great Steppe Powers, ranged from the borders of Rome, Persia and China to India, and they controlled the Silk Road for many years too. They're certainly a strong contender for an expansionist, warfare oriented civ that is an alternative to the Huns and the Mongols.

This is a good idea here. And the Ashina Clan (it's ruling dynasty, as well as that of it's Eastern and Western splinter empires, in two different branches) produced some good leaders, some of whom were downright Machiavellian in nature, and not simple "raze and terrorize mobile cavalry big horde raider" types mostly.

 

[Krajzen]

Timurids (Gurkani?) are imo by far the most underrated civ at this points. Immensely spectacular, powerful, and very influential empire which had not one but two incredible rulers (Tamerlane and Shakh Rukh), mighty army, flourishing of art, culture and science, lasted around century, shaped Greater Iran and Greater India and gave birth to Mughals. It is also by far the best representation of Uzbekistan area I can think of.

Ask someone here about them and people think they are some wild horde eating grass.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I voted for:
Akkad: It would be a great addition. It would have to combine features of both Babylon and Assyria but I think it can work. I also think in a game about Civilization we should have a lot of Ancient Civs.

Burma: Though not my first choice for a new SEA civ, there's no reason that it shouldn't eventually be included.

Judah: However you call it: Judah, Hebrews, Israelites would be a great addition to the game. They are the founder of a great world religion.

Tibet: This is probably unlikely due to China, but still I voted for it.

Vietnam: My favorite out of this bunch. They've had a long and interesting history and it would be great if they could get in this current version of the game.

 

[Krajzen]

Okay so let me trash some suggestions and make everybody hate me

Bhutan doesn't even exist I mean has anyone ever seen it on the map, in any historical period?

Hepththalites should be disqualified based on name alone. No but seriously they are just White Huns and Huns are essence of savage barbarians. But worse because they lack Attila which is the only badass thing about Huns.

Khazaria is trash, the only reason people like it is because supposedly it was exotic Jewish Steppe horde but scholars nowadays consider this writtrn account about Judaism nonsense, there is absolutely nothing to suggest Judaism here, and take this and it is your average boring savage undocumented steppe horde which cannot hold a horse to Mongols

Zenobia of Palmyra is an idiot who got utterly roflstomped into the floor within one year of declaring independence and her empire is three year long ******** offspring of thousand year long Roman empire

Sibir and Yakutia are wonderful primeval forest areas I would really like to visit Siberia one time really the horrible conditions which made it always uninhabitsble worthless piece of wasteland have the upside od preserving bears and wolverines

Tibet is great but Chinese go - just kidding, let's add Tibet, Chinese government can go polish my Hong Kong - made moisturizer

 

[ehecatzin]

I would vote Tibet, but that's never going to happen.

Timurids: I would love too see the Mughals, but Firaxis seems fixated to using them as visual representation for India, so that's not happening, however, I agree in that the Timurids are the better option to fill that gap (as well as the map), and man, just imagine that architecture ingame.

Vietnam: It would be interesting to see them as the ultimate "hit above their weight" civ. I'd love to see Firaxis take on the Trung sisters.

Judah: It's odd they haven't made it into the game after 6 iterations, if they want to avoid any controversy with modern Israel I don't see why they couldn't focus on the ancient kingdom.

Chola: Anything that breaks India makes me happy, besides they have very cool architecture and could bring their own naval flavor.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Okay so let me trash some suggestions and make everybody hate me

Bhutan doesn't even exist I mean has anyone ever seen it on the map, in any historical period?

Hepththalites should be disqualified based on name alone. No but seriously they are just White Huns and Huns are essence of savage barbarians. But worse because they lack Attila which is the only badass thing about Huns.

Khazaria is trash, the only reason people like it is because supposedly it was exotic Jewish Steppe horde but scholars nowadays consider this writtrn account about Judaism nonsense, there is absolutely nothing to suggest Judaism here, and take this and it is your average boring savage undocumented steppe horde which cannot hold a horse to Mongols

Zenobia of Palmyra is an idiot who got utterly roflstomped into the floor within one year of declaring independence and her empire is three year long ******** offspring of thousand year long Roman empire

Sibir and Yakutia are wonderful primeval forest areas I would really like to visit Siberia one time really the horrible conditions which made it always uninhabitsble worthless piece of wasteland have the upside od preserving bears and wolverines

Tibet is great but Chinese go - just kidding, let's add Tibet, Chinese government can go polish my Hong Kong - made moisturizer

Boof. Savage.

I do think there is design space for an Arctic civ. Sibera and Yakutia have just barely enough to cobble together uniques, like reindeer taming and diamond mining. But it's a stretch and I think players would find an Eskimo-Aleut or Uralic speaking leader more interesting instead of another Turko-Mongolic speaker.

The rest, absolutely agree with. Although we have Kristina leading Sweden so Zenobia could feasibly squeak by as a "Syria" leader, as boring as that sounds to me. I personally think the Middle East is complete (except maybe an Arabian alt leader or Oman) but if we are missing anything, it certainly isn't Palmyra.

 

[AsH2]

..
Although we have Kristina leading Sweden so Zenobia could feasibly squeak by as a "Syria" leader..

?

 

[PhoenicianGold]

?

While I don't have any issue with Kristina personally and in fact loved her inclusion, she only ruled as an adult for about ten years, followed by abidcation and fleeing the country. If the point of a leader is longevity, success as a ruler, and generally being pro-nationalistic, Kristina kind of already broke all of those rules, which opens discussion up for other weird flashes in the pan like Zenobia. I wasn't the first person to suggest that she be the leader for a broader cultural "Syrian" heritage, can't remember who suggested it on the boards but she certainly makes more sense leading "Syria" as a culture hero than the short-lived "Palmyra."

 

[TahamiTsunami]

Against hope, I would prefer if both were included because SE Asia is one region that really deserves to be as densely populated as Europe.

I couldn't agree with this more!

Speaking of which, it occurred to me that I should share what I voted on as well!

My first pick for Southeast Asia and Asia as a whole is Burma. It was the largest Southeast Asian empire and once ruled almost the entire region under Bayinnaung. Even when it didn't it was still quite a powerhouse.

Next is Vietnam, the popular choice on these forums for understandable reasons. Most if not all of its history has been spent rebelling against other powerful states and it is the part of Southeast Asia that's been more influenced by China rather than India. How they didn't make it into Rise and Fall is beyond me!

I agree that the Timurids would be a great option for TSL, notable leaders, great influence, etc. I also kinda sorta definitely forgot to include the Mughals in this despite how cool I think they are (though I think they'd probably be an alternate leader for India so I won't worry about adding them unless its suggested more on here) but I think the Timurids are a better choice regardless.

Judah would be a great choice for just how influential it has been for religion and Hezekiah would be an interesting leader to see. Modern Israel could be controversial but I don't see why ancient Judah should be.

Tibet is another one of those civs that I've grown to love the more I've heard and read up about them. It really is a huge shame with how sensitive the Chinese government is otherwise this would easily be one top tier choices for brand new civ from any region let alone Asia. While Tibet is an undoubtedly worthy choice, I'd like to mention why I'm interested in Bhutan. It seems like a very odd choice given that it's a smaller nation but Bhutan is a better choice as a stand-in for Tibet than Nepal is. Bhutan was formerly a part of Tibet until it became it's own kingdom in the 1600s and managed to defeat invading Tibetan armies a few times. Bhutan also has a lot of Tibetan influence in its culture and architecture not to mention the shared Buddhism. Nepal is neat in it's own right but it's also much more heavily influenced by India and Hinduism.

Other shout outs:

Yakutia: No offense to Canada but I was hoping that Yakutia would be the tundra farming civ in Gathering Storm. They had settlements in the extreme cold of Siberia and Tygyn Darkhan had created quite a kingdom/empire for himself.

Akkad: We could use more ancient era civilizations and Sargon would be a very cool leader to have. If Firaxis really wanted just 1 Mesopotamian civ then it would've been the Akkadian empire with all the cities of Sumeria, Assyria, and Babylonia in its city list to leave no room for doubt.

Philippines: A pretty distinct culture that has plenty of pre-Spanish history to draw from.

Yemen: The Arabian peninsula could use more love and a female Islamic leader would be quite different.

Hephthalites: I probably wouldn't vote for them over most of the other choices here and the Timurids are pretty much superior in every way but I do want to say that they sounded pretty cool in that Kings and Generals video and they did have settlements so they at least had that over the European Huns (sorry Attila).

 

[Patine]

Yakutia: No offense to Canada but I was hoping that Yakutia would be the tundra farming civ in Gathering Storm. They had settlements in the extreme cold of Siberia and Tygyn Darkhan had created quite a kingdom/empire for himself.

No offense. Canada doesn't actually farm tundra anymore than Alaska, Russia, or Argentina do. I found that ability a bad stereotype and a bit annoying, actually.

 

[TahamiTsunami]

No offense. Canada doesn't actually farm tundra anymore than Alaska, Russia, or Argentina do. I found that ability a bad stereotype and a bit annoying, actually.

Yeah, when I learned that Canada was happening, a few others and I were hoping that they'd have some abilities centered around railroads. At least Yakutia had tundra farms and at least the hockey rink was a stereotype that most Canadians seemed to like!

 

[Bechhold]

The Philippines would be a great addition. Although who would be their leader is beyond me.

 

[Naktis]

hmm middle east and asian civs could have separate threads , middle east especially fertile crescent holds many ancients civs.
From the list:

Akkad - A good alternative for Assyria.
Judah - Grow some balls firaxis its time to add them in any form. Sadly the way things are now in western world this civ can become a huge scandal...
Philippines - indonessia feels kinda lonely on those islands ,so add some company. (Malaysia works too)
Sikh - coz Sikhism
Vietnam - disccussed way to much in previous threads.