Poor, poor rapists... WTH!?

[caketastydelish]

Downtown is right, and it addresses a bigger problem here. Call me unpatriotic, but I'm blaming would I'd call 'american culture' (not being sarcastic).

Even in my town, its not much different than what Downtown described. In Japan for example, it's academics that are worshiped. In America, it's the football players. That's why Japanese kids have the highest grades, and American kids are constantly failing behind (even the non-rapist).

America needs to get with the rest of the world and remove sports from the grade school level entirely.

 

[downtown]

Well I can get behind torching the entire town too in that case.

I can't think of many people who would disagree with you. The town's unemployment is staggering, and their drug problem significant. It's really one of the worst places in the entire rust belt. Their football team is THE ONLY THING they have going for it.

 

[ace99]

I just find it hard to imagine a place where a highschool football coach can become the most powerful man in the world.

Now a college football coach on the other hand....

 

[Cheetah]

No. As much as I disagree with CNN here, they are supposed to do whatever they want. CNN is privately run; they have the right to insert whatever bias they like. When I tune into CNN I am allowing myself to see things from their views. Same with any privately run news.

[...]

The news is biased all the time. If you don't like it, do your own primary research. Again, for the record I disagree with CNN's bias here, but they can be biased if they want.

Decent human beings are not supposed to try and drum up support for two guys who just got sentenced for raping a girl in public.

I expect the journalists at CNN to be decent human beings.

Oh, any sympathy I feel for them is decidedly mixed with a loooooooooooooooooooooooot of disgust.

But no amount of disgust erase the over-the-top nature of for-life branding.

On the other hand, they're 16. People do some really stupid things at 16 that are in no way reflective of the person they might be at 46. I think sex-offender status might be something subject to renewal or, maybe better, review.

Alright, about this life-long sex offender mark.

I think it's a bit like the prison-question: Can we be reasonably sure that they won't commit the crime again after they are released? If they now have learned (learning) their lesson, and won't do this again, then sure, they shouldn't be on a list. But the whole reason that list exists is to help protect potential future victims.

Personally, I read some evidence that might indicate that indicate that the potential/willingness to commit rape has a strong genetic component, and might really be hereditary. That it is in fact a remainder of an evolutionary strategy to procreate, and is therefore hereditary to some extent.

If that is indeed the case, I strongly believe that they should remain on such a list forever. Because they have in fact done it once, and are more than usually likely to do it again. Not to put this too general of course: It's one thing when people are sentenced with little evidence, but in this case it's no doubt about what's happened or who did it.

If this rape is simply a "phase" they'll grow out of, then I suppose they could be taken of the list, but I really don't think it is that easy.

 

[downtown]

I just find it hard to imagine a place where a highschool football coach can become the most powerful man in the world.

Now a college football coach on the other hand....

You should read Friday Night Lights. This is not a super uncommon arrangement in the South, Ohio, parts of California and Florida, or PA.

 

[caketastydelish]

Decent human beings are not supposed to try and drum up support for two guys who just got sentenced for raping a girl in public.

I expect the journalists at CNN to be decent human beings.

That's the way capitalism works, people are not even required to be 'decent human beings'.

If you really want to hurt CNN quit watching them and organize a boycott for others to do the same. Don't buy products that are advertised on CNN.

 

[Cheetah]

Let me preface this by saying that I obviously think the girl deserves the most sympathy. She is the victim here.

HOWEVA, I honestly DO feel some measure of sympathy for the football players. Here is why:

I'm pretty familiar with Steubenville. I grew up maybe an hour away, and I've covered their high school football team before (they're pretty famous around Ohio). The town is hopelessly backwards, and has 100% completely fostered a culture where young football players feel they are completely above the law.

The most powerful man in town, the football coach, is in cahoots with the sheriff. The administration and local law enforcement have covered up rampant academic fraud, drinking and drug trafficking for years. You have kids who are taught from fairly early on that women are prizes that they are entitled to thanks to their athletic exploits, not actual human beings. When you add all of that up, plus alcohol, plus being dumb teenagers, you get tragedy.

I'm not saying these kids should not be punished. They have committed a horrible act and they ought to be punished. I do think it is sad that they've basically thrown their lives away on a terrible mistake, and most importantly, that they've grown up in a culture and community that has enabled this behavior before.

The kids should be punished, but they aren't the only guilty party here.

That is a fairly good point, but it still doesn't make me see these two rapists in a much better light. It feels dangerously close to an argument that goes something like "They were given everything in life, and nobody ever denied them anything, so they just didn't know any better". I'm just not buying it.

I can agree that there might be a cultural problem involved here however.

And I wouldn't really say that it's just affecting this town. The same "Athletes are demigods!" problem seem to exist around all the good high school and college teams in the US. And professional sports are not entirely different.

That's often been a partly explanation for many rape and sexual assault cases around schools in the US.

 

[Leoreth]

Rape is more of a people issue than a 'woman's' issue. Of course, unless you believe men can't get raped to.

Or better yet, there are no 'men's issues'.

Yes, men can be raped. But if you want to imply that the rape of men is as much of a social problem as the rape of women then you're out of your mind.

That's the way capitalism works, people are not even required to be 'decent human beings'.

If you're a horrible person, it's not a valid excuse that you're a horrible person to make a profit. In fact, that's even worse.

 

[Evie]

Alright, about this life-long sex offender mark.

I think it's a bit like the prison-question: Can we be reasonably sure that they won't commit the crime again after they are released? If they now have learned (learning) their lesson, and won't do this again, then sure, they shouldn't be on a list. But the whole reason that list exists is to help protect potential future victims.

There is an argument to be made to that effect, yes.

But when that argument is applied to people who are at a stage in life where the ability to feel empathy for others, and the pain you cause them especially; the age of your life where the consequences of your own actions isn't something you learned to properly handle yet?

An age whose lower ability to handle such things we recognize by limiting certain rights?

Sorry. Minors should not be permanently registered. Not acceptable.

 

[Cheetah]

The age of majority for different things vary from country to country (and state to state).

Many places are considering letting 16 year olds vote, and many other places allow them to drive cars or get married.

I would argue four points:
1. A 16 year old knows that rape is wrong, and that it hurts the unwilling partner psychologically, if not physically.
2. A 16 year old guy knows that a 16 year old girl does not generally want to have sex in public while unconscious (even if he is of the belief that she would wish to have sex with him).
3. A 16 year old knows that drinking can lower their inhibitions and increase their willingness to do stupid stuff.
4. A 16 year old knows fully well that if they do somthing wrong, they risk getting punished for it.

These two knew what they were doing, and they knew that it was wrong. They still did it. Whether they're 16 or 18 is irrelevant in this case.

 

[Zack]

You should read Friday Night Lights. This is not a super uncommon arrangement in the South, Ohio, parts of California and Florida, or PA.

Or watch the TV show on Netflix. It's really good.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Sorry. Minors should not be permanently registered. Not acceptable.

For violent rape, gang rape and violent crimes minors should be permanently registered.
They drugged this girl, and then gang raped her.

 

[caketastydelish]

Yes, men can be raped. But if you want to imply that the rape of men is as much of a social problem as the rape of women then you're out of your mind.

Yes, in the same way that if you think suicide of women as as much of a social problem than the suicide of men then you're out of your mind.

If you're a horrible person, it's not a valid excuse that you're a horrible person to make a profit. In fact, that's even worse.

Seems you missed my point. I'm saying if you really want to hurt CNN, quit watching them and never watch them again. On the other hand, bashing them on an online forum for a little bit and then forgiving/forgetting them a few days later won't make a difference; they'll continue their ways.

 

[Zack]

Yes, in the same way that if you think suicide of women as as much of a social problem than the suicide of men then you're out of your mind.

Saying something sarcastically does not automatically render it valid, fyi.

 

[Gucumatz]

Let me preface this by saying that I obviously think the girl deserves the most sympathy. She is the victim here.

HOWEVA, I honestly DO feel some measure of sympathy for the football players. Here is why:

I'm pretty familiar with Steubenville. I grew up maybe an hour away, and I've covered their high school football team before (they're pretty famous around Ohio). The town is hopelessly backwards, and has 100% completely fostered a culture where young football players feel they are completely above the law.

The most powerful man in town, the football coach, is in cahoots with the sheriff. The administration and local law enforcement have covered up rampant academic fraud, drinking and drug trafficking for years. You have kids who are taught from fairly early on that women are prizes that they are entitled to thanks to their athletic exploits, not actual human beings. When you add all of that up, plus alcohol, plus being dumb teenagers, you get tragedy.

I'm not saying these kids should not be punished. They have committed a horrible act and they ought to be punished. I do think it is sad that they've basically thrown their lives away on a terrible mistake, and most importantly, that they've grown up in a culture and community that has enabled this behavior before.

The kids should be punished, but they aren't the only guilty party here.

My former roommate used to play against Steubenville when he was in high school. He says he wasn't surprised at all that something like this happened.

Party Drunks + Rapists + Drugs is never a good mix. Heck why stop at the town? Why not torch all three, a bunch of ebrios anyways

 

[sophie]

Saying something sarcastically does not automatically render it valid, fyi.

Guys, this is Oldschooler, the man who literally argued for 20 pages about how rape is not that big a deal and women's studies is rendered invalid because occasionally it's men being raped rather than women.

(As in we've already done this before. You're just feeding his ego)

 

[Formaldehyde]

Let me preface this by saying that I obviously think the girl deserves the most sympathy. She is the victim here.

HOWEVA, I honestly DO feel some measure of sympathy for the football players. Here is why:

I'm pretty familiar with Steubenville. I grew up maybe an hour away, and I've covered their high school football team before (they're pretty famous around Ohio). The town is hopelessly backwards, and has 100% completely fostered a culture where young football players feel they are completely above the law.

The most powerful man in town, the football coach, is in cahoots with the sheriff. The administration and local law enforcement have covered up rampant academic fraud, drinking and drug trafficking for years. You have kids who are taught from fairly early on that women are prizes that they are entitled to thanks to their athletic exploits, not actual human beings. When you add all of that up, plus alcohol, plus being dumb teenagers, you get tragedy.

I'm not saying these kids should not be punished. They have committed a horrible act and they ought to be punished. I do think it is sad that they've basically thrown their lives away on a terrible mistake, and most importantly, that they've grown up in a culture and community that has enabled this behavior before.

The kids should be punished, but they aren't the only guilty party here.

That's a very good point. Those who idolize and glamorize what amounts to a very silly sport in the grand scheme of things at the high school level, and even the collegiate or pro level, and who thereby set up a culture where many such travesties go completely unreported on a very frequent basis, are very much to blame as well.

But feeling sorry for the football players who committed this act is beyond absurd, except for the fact that they will now publicly be known as sex offenders no matter where they go or no matter how much time transpires.

Ironically, it is largely those who extol and glamorize football and other sports to the point where many of the players get free passes to commit heinous crimes are the very same ones who have no problem at all making public those who are sex offenders.

There is simply no way "the most powerful man in town" should ever be a high school coach, or any other coach for that matter. Therein lies the real problem here.

 

[Evie]

The age of majority for different things vary from country to country (and state to state).

Many places are considering letting 16 year olds vote, and many other places allow them to drive cars or get married.

I would argue four points:
1. A 16 year old knows that rape is wrong, and that it hurts the unwilling partner psychologically, if not physically.
2. A 16 year old guy knows that a 16 year old girl does not generally want to have sex in public while unconscious (even if he is of the belief that she would wish to have sex with him).
3. A 16 year old knows that drinking can lower their inhibitions and increase their willingness to do stupid stuff.
4. A 16 year old knows fully well that if they do somthing wrong, they risk getting punished for it.

These two knew what they were doing, and they knew that it was wrong. They still did it. Whether they're 16 or 18 is irrelevant in this case.

I've seen first hand how much 16 years old have yet to learn about empathy and causing pain to others (ie, me), and how much difference an extra ten years make (ie, them lining up unprompted at the school reunion to apologize). No, it wasn't rape, or even close, but it was an object lesson in how much people learn between 16 and 26.

The notion that they're anywhere near where they will be, as full adults, in terms of responsibility and empathy, has less to do with reality than the Lord of the Rings does.

Did they know it was wrong? Yes. But knowing you shouldn't do something, and having the degree of empathy to truly understand why, and how horrible that something is, are two things. And of course, doing things despite being taught repeatedly it's wrong and you shouldn't is, uh, teenagehood in a nutshell. Again, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be punished. Punishment is part of teaching them those things. But it must be reasonable. Not lifelong branding.

The idea that teenagers should be put before the adult system is not justice. It's appeasement for revenge-thirsty, media-fueled angry mobs (And we all know how much collected braincells an angry mob has), aimed at people who have deluded themselves into thinking they were far better than they really were as teens.

 

[caketastydelish]

Guys, this is Oldschooler, the man who literally argued for 20 pages about how rape is not that big a deal and women's studies is rendered invalid because occasionally it's men being raped rather than women.

(As in we've already done this before. You're just feeding his ego)

Wrong. I didn't do that.

Saying something sarcastically does not automatically render it valid, fyi.

I was making a point that suicide is a men's issue.

 

[Zack]

I was making a point that suicide is a men's issue.

With the implication being it's okay if females kill themselves?