Poor, poor rapists... WTH!?

[ace99]

There is simply no way "the most powerful man in town" should ever be a high school coach, or any other coach for that matter. Therein lies the real problem here.

Shouldn't be the Sheriff either.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The idea that teenagers should be put before the adult system is not justice. It's appeasement for revenge-thirsty, media-fueled angry mobs (And we all know how much collected braincells an angry mob has), aimed at people who have deluded themselves into thinking they were far better than they really were as teens.

They also shouldn't get what amounts to a free pass for a very major felony, especially at the age of 16. I think in these sorts of cases a middle ground is called for. They should spend 2 years in a juvenile detention facility then be transferred to an adult facility to serve the rest of what should probably be 5-8 year sentences. But they also shouldn't be publicly branded for the rest of their lives as sex offenders. Nobody really deserves that, especially in a matter such as this.

The law should also be changed in the handful of states which don't discriminate between rape and sexual assault. Sexual assault is a very serious felony, but it isn't the same as a rape where the person may quite possibly become pregnant or infected with HIV as a result.

Shouldn't be the Sheriff either.

Amen to that. After all, they are both blue collar professions which don't require advanced degrees or even any great deal of skill.

 

[downtown]

Amen to that. After all, they are both blue collar professions which don't require advanced degrees or even any great deal of skill.

This town has virtually zero white collar workers. Whoever 'the most powerful' guy in town is will be a blue-collar guy.

 

[Zack]

Amen to that. After all, they are both blue collar professions which don't require advanced degrees or even any great deal of skill.

High school coaches often also teach regular classes at the school they coach at. Not exactly blue collar work, and saying coaching football or being a sheriff doesn't require skill is incredibly snobbish.

Aptitude for and/or interest in scholarly pursuits is genetic, and you should not look not down on someone for having a blue collar job or for lacking an advanced degree, just like talented basketball players should not look down on you for being comparatively unskilled at basketball, or an underwear model should not look down on you for being comparatively less attractive.

 

[caketastydelish]

With the implication being it's okay if females kill themselves?

No. I'm pointing out that suicide is a men's issue in the same way that rape is a women's issue.

 

[Gucumatz]

And my post on the lizard brain mob mentality that we haven't evolved from since Biblical stonings disappeared... ah well this brief rehash of a longer post I had will have to do...

The idea that teenagers should be put before the adult system is not justice. It's appeasement for revenge-thirsty, media-fueled angry mobs (And we all know how much collected braincells an angry mob has), aimed at people who have deluded themselves into thinking they were far better than they really were as teens.

Should people be satisfied that the legal system took care of things? I think so. But should we be using this as another excuse to bash a couple of people no matter how terrible a thing they did? I don't think so, but hey looks like we are in the minority on this one.

Anyways I (sincerely) hope that this girl can recover and gets peace of mind and peace from the community and the media. She deserves time and privacy

=====
*Puts Façade back on*

Pitchforks and torches for everyone! But certainly showing empathy to criminals is a heinous, terrible, and assaulting thing to do. Pfft who would ever do that?

 

[madviking]

Why do people care what the media says anymore?

 

[Zack]

No. I'm pointing out that suicide is a men's issue in the same way that rape is a women's issue.

You have a habit of throwing out absurd, brief claims without substantiating them with any explanations or citations whatsoever.

Pitchforks and torches for everyone! But certainly showing empathy to criminals is a heinous, terrible, and assaulting thing to do. Pfft who would ever do that?

What exactly is there to empathize with? Empathy for the sake of empathy? Empathy for the sake of "look at me, I'm so thoughtful and compassionate, even to scumbag rapists"?

(And for the record, "sympathy" is the word you're looking for here, not "empathy".)

 

[Camikaze]

Rape is under reported, under investigated, under prosecuted and under convicted. From that point of view, some might argue that unfortunately, a lot of what we would consider rape is de facto legal by any empirical measure. "It's not illegal if you don't get caught" sounds trite, but it's perfectly true. If you are never going to be reported, investigated, prosecuted or convicted of a particular activity, or are statistically highly unlikely to be so, it can hardly be termed a 'crime', being behaviour that attracts a state imposed penalty, as opposed to being a technical breach of statute and precedent.

With this in mind, it would seem that these two teenagers are the exception to the rule, and that perhaps without the intervention of the media, they would've gotten away with it. That doesn't square with what most of us would understand as due process. And from that point of view, some may feel inclined to feel a touch of sympathy, to the extent that these teenagers may be (deserved) scapegoats for a wider problem (what with the lifelong sex offenders' register thing, which is really just a response to moral panic). I do not think it is wrong to think that something has gone amiss, but I do think that any such sympathy as directed towards these two teenager offenders is a little misplaced. It's not that these teenagers didn't deserve their punishment (apart from the register, perhaps, which could be argued to be very unprincipled), but rather that so many others can engage in the same behaviour without it being a 'crime' in any meaningful sense of the word. That there are so many others who deserve the punishment too. Sympathy would be better directed towards hidden victims.

 

[caketastydelish]

You have a habit of throwing out absurd, brief claims without substantiating them with any explanations or citations whatsoever.

I hope you'll be happy with me defending my 'absurd' claim.

Suicide is a men's issue.

"Most people who commit suicide are men, 74% to 79% of them, according to research from Canada, the U.S. and the U.K."

“Male suicide numbers are higher than female in all 97 countries except perhaps for China, where … the data is incomplete,” writes Synnott. Proportions of male to female suicides vary widely from country to from 10:1 to 2:1"

 

[ace99]

Moreover if I'm not mistaken it's only when those pictures and video started doing tours on social media circuits that they were even investigated and charged.

The girl herself didn't even realize what had happened until she saw those pictures.

 

[Zack]

I hope you'll be happy with me defending my 'absurd' claim.

Suicide is a men's issue.

"Most people who commit suicide are men, 74% to 79% of them, according to research from Canada, the U.S. and the U.K."

“Male suicide numbers are higher than female in all 97 countries except perhaps for China, where … the data is incomplete,” writes Synnott. Proportions of male to female suicides vary widely from country to from 10:1 to 2:1"

Okay, and why is the suicide rate for men relevant to the discussion in the first place?

 

[caketastydelish]

I pointed out that there are men's issues just like there are women's issues. Then I gave the example of suicide.

You called my suicide example an 'absurd' claim with 'brief' evidence. I defended the claim with evidence.

Now after you called me out on my claim, you wish I retracted it now that I proved you wrong. All you had to do was look up the data yourself, but I did it for you and I proved you're wrong, so you're mad at me and wish I never made the claim in the first place.

 

[Formaldehyde]

High school coaches often also teach regular classes at the school they coach at. Not exactly blue collar work, and saying coaching football or being a sheriff doesn't require skill is incredibly snobbish.

Both are clearly blue collar jobs more than white collar jobs, and neither require a "great" deal of skill to adequately perform the job. There are thousands of sheriffs who are mediocre at best, and there are tens of thousands of high school coaches who are.

Furthermore, I have yet to see a high school coach who was above average when it came to teaching. There are probably a few, but there are certainly not very many of them based on my own personal experiences. This is particularly true if they majored in some absurd major like phys ed instead of a legitimate academic subject. I certainly didn't ever have one teaching an honors class that I attended, or any class for that matter when there were no honors classes. They seemed to teach the classes where there were a lot of jocks and other students who had difficulties passing for some odd reason.

Aptitude for and/or interest in scholarly pursuits is genetic, and you should not look not down on someone for having a blue collar job or for lacking an advanced degree, just like talented basketball players should not look down on you for being comparatively unskilled at basketball, or an underwear model should not look down on you for being comparatively less attractive.

Source, please.

It sounds like you are actually the one "looking down" on others and being "snobbish" by claiming that their future is essentially determined by who their parents were, instead of how hard they work to achieve success.

And weren't you just whining about me discussing others instead of the topic, despite them doing so first?

I hope you'll be happy with me defending my 'absurd' claim.

Suicide is a men's issue.

"Most people who commit suicide are men, 74% to 79% of them, according to research from Canada, the U.S. and the U.K."

“Male suicide numbers are higher than female in all 97 countries except perhaps for China, where … the data is incomplete,” writes Synnott. Proportions of male to female suicides vary widely from country to from 10:1 to 2:1"

It doesn't make it a "men's issue" any more than rape is a "women's issue".

 

[History_Buff]

It doesn't make it a "men's issue" any more than rape is a "women's issue".

Indeed, rape is a men's issue just as much as that stat would make suicide a men's issue. It is after all the men who are doing the raping.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Not always. But I imagine even the vast majority of men who are raped are the victims of men as well.

 

[ace99]

^^ If you take into account prison rape, it's possible that in the United State there are more men being raped annually than women.

In January, prodded in part by outrage over a series of articles in the New York Review of Books, the Justice Department finally released an estimate of the prevalence of sexual abuse in penitentiaries. The reliance on filed complaints appeared to understate the problem. For 2008, for example, the government had previously tallied 935 confirmed instances of sexual abuse. After asking around, and performing some calculations, the Justice Department came up with a new number: 216,000. That's 216,000 victims, not instances. These victims are often assaulted multiple times over the course of the year. The Justice Department now seems to be saying that prison rape accounted for the majority of all rapes committed in the US in 2008, likely making the United States the first country in the history of the world to count more rapes for men than for women.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/feb/21/us-more-men-raped-than-women

http://nplusonemag.com/raise-the-crime-rate

The department divides sexual abuse in detention into four categories. Most straightforward, and most common, is rape by force or the threat of force. An estimated 69,800 inmates suffered this in 2008. The second category, "nonconsensual sexual acts involving pressure", includes 36,100 inmates coerced by such means as blackmail, offers of protection and demanded payment of a jailhouse "debt". This is still rape by any reasonable standard.

An estimated 65,700 inmates, including 6,800 juveniles, had sex with staff "willingly". But it is illegal in all 50 states for corrections staff to have any sexual contact with inmates. Since staff can inflict punishments including behavioural reports that may extend the time people serve, solitary confinement, loss of even the most basic privileges such as showering and (legally or not) violence, it is often impossible for inmates to say no. Finally, the department estimates that there were 45,000 victims of "abusive sexual contacts" in 2008: unwanted touching by another inmate "of the inmate's buttocks, thigh, penis, breasts, or vagina in a sexual way". Overall, most victims were abused not by other inmates but, like Jan, by corrections staff: agents of our government, paid with our taxes, whose job it is to keep inmates safe.

And for some fun reading, idiots who think she was asking for it: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/23-people-who-think-the-steubenville-rape-victim-is-to-blame

 

[Formaldehyde]

Actually, I wasn't forgetting it at all. That was primarily my point. I just had no idea that more men might be raped in the US than women. I still doubt that is true based on the number of women in the US versus the size of the prison population, even though the latter is vastly larger than it should be.

 

[Old Hippy]

No. I'm pointing out that suicide is a men's issue in the same way that rape is a women's issue.

it's the 21 century, they are both people issues...

 

[civ_king]

Yes, men can be raped. But if you want to imply that the rape of men is as much of a social problem as the rape of women then you're out of your mind.


If you're a horrible person, it's not a valid excuse that you're a horrible person to make a profit. In fact, that's even worse.

Males are sexually abuse more often than you probably think.


Can we just obliterate Steubenville?