Pope officially endorses Same Sex Civil Unions

[Farm Boy]

He said non-hetero people deserve to have families.

 

[Patine]

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1318917841404497923



Not quite marriages, but basically the best to honestly expect of the Catholic Church. This pope is such an improvement on the last one.

There are still quite a few Catholic countries without even Civil unions, so this could be good for pushing LGBT rights. And hopefully, this means pressure from the church to allow adoption.

However, Trad Catholics and conservative third world Catholics have long been okay with ****-talking the Pope to various degrees. So this possibly just accelerates them doing more of that, or switching to an Evangelical Protestanism, Orthodoxy or Catholic heresy. Trad Catholics are already basically another religion to modern Catholicism.

The Roman Catholic Church has not been in the spirit of the Ministry or Teachings of Christ and properly shepherding it's along the Path to Salvation since Pope Gregory I (590-604), at the very latest. However, the great majority of Protestant and Non-Trinitarian Churches that later emerged in the Western World, with only a very few exceptions (such as, arguably, the Quakers and a few others) did not truly regain touch with the proper mission and role Christ and the Apostles intended for the Church that was just being founded in their day and age. Theocratic judgement of sin by flawed mortals upon the Earth was obviously never the intention, and was abrogated as a necessity, or even mandate, by the Sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Christ. "Judge not lest ye be judged," and "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," applies equally to clergy and lay preachers as does to the rank and file of the flock. Although mortal governments are recognized by Christ as having power of law and order in their own demesne, "then render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's," claiming that such laws and punishments are done in the name of, and on behalf of, Christ and the Father, is hubris and using the Lord's Name in Vain. Also, "call no man upon this Earth Father," is not a prohibition from addressing your biological or adoptive father by a respectful and/or affectionate paternal term, but not to regard anyone on the Earth as being, acting in lieu of, or speaking for Christ or the Father - which illegitimatizes the Pope's entire office and base of perceived power in any case. @El_Machinae's eunoch quote, as well as the many quotes of being forgiving and loving to one's neighbours in the same way the God shows an undeserved Grace and Forgiveness out of His eternal love belies the hateful, vindictive, bigoted, and socially vicious and cruel "social conservatives," who claim their views are backed by Christian doctrine (more using of the Lord's Name in Vain), and I why I have no time for then, and neither should any other truly pious Christian who follows the Ministry of Christ and Path to Salvation, and not some self-proclaimed Church "intermediary."

 

[Cutlass]

Assuming the couple indulge in sex IMHO the Pope is wrong. He is speaking as a Catholic and the Catholic Church sees sex outside the sacrament of Matrimony is a sin.

Then maybe they should teach that to their priests.

 

[Farm Boy]

Ah, leave the theologians out of it? That certainly is very evangelical, in the NA umbrella sort of tradition. My observations differ, somewhat, on the value of enduring intermediary theology.

I mean, you can toss around social conservative here and there and dunk on Protestants in general/call the Pope illegitimate, but I'm going to stick with both my chosen label and a chosen intermediate theology, a traditional(conservative, therefore) summary of which would be:

All need to be saved.
All may be saved.
All may know themselves saved.
All may be saved to the uttermost.

 

[Patine]

Ah, leave the theologians out of it? That certainly is very evangelical, in the NA umbrella sort of tradition. My observations differ, somewhat, on the value of enduring intermediary theology.

I mean, you can toss around social conservative here and there and dunk on Protestants in general/call the Pope illegitimate, but I'm going to stick with both my chosen label and a chosen intermediate theology, a traditional(conservative, therefore) summary of which would be:

All need to be saved.
All may be saved.
All may know themselves saved.
All may be saved to the uttermost.

Yes, but only the Father, and NO ONE ELSE, decides, who, in the end, who will be saved and how long it will take. No mortal on the Earth is empowered to make that decision, or even make a "binding advisory," on it.

 

[Farm Boy]

Well, I wouldn't even take excommunication from the Pope himself as really claiming that anymore. Theirs is their method, and to their method they adhere. They recognize off-brand Christians as Christians, and those are certainly outside the Roman Miracle of Communion and Forgiveness of Sins. Certainly more grace extended, on average, then say... Baptists? generally seem to have in backwash. Binding advisory, tho. That's pretty interesting. Even a method, an icon, or a ritual is sort of a binding advisory, within a church, on how to pursue a more perfect union.

 

[Patine]

Well, I wouldn't even take excommunication from the Pope himself as really claiming that anymore. Theirs is their method, and to their method they adhere. They recognize off-brand Christians as Christians, and those are certainly outside the Roman Miracle of Communion and Forgiveness of Sins. Certainly more grace extended, on average, then say... Baptists? generally seem to have in backwash. Binding advisory, tho. That's pretty interesting. Even a method, an icon, or a ritual is sort of a binding advisory, within a church, on how to pursue a more perfect union.

Did you even understand the point I was making in my original post above?

 

[Farm Boy]

Pancake. Definitely.

Sounds like you were taking aim at the theology of Rome. No? Specifically at the Papists' head of church?

There was an aside in there about Protestant trinitarians and non-trinitarians too, at which point it's like - well, they fixed a lot of the bad theology with the second Vatican council, and a lot more of the other crap actually winds up getting fixed by the bureaucracy of Rome, regionalized. People of all stripes can suck or touch little kids or whatever, but I'd put a greater degree of faith in the stogy love of Rome than whatever I'm going to get if I walk into some nondenom random standalone. Those land sort of all over the place. Even if they're pretty open, a lot of times they seem to rock that gospel of wealth crap.

 

[Patine]

Pancake. Definitely.

Sounds like you were taking aim at the theology of Rome. No? Specifically at the Papists' head of church?

There was an aside in there about Protestant trinitarians and non-trinitarians too, at which point it's like - well, they fixed a lot of the bad theology with the second Vatican council, and a lot more of the other crap actually winds up getting fixed by the bureaucracy of Rome, regionalized. People of all stripes can suck or touch little kids or whatever, but I'd put a greater degree of faith in the stogy love of Rome than whatever I'm going to get if I walk into some nondenom random standalone. Those land sort of all over the place. Even if they're pretty open, a lot of times they seem to rock that gospel of wealth crap.

Not just for a deconstructionist "stick it to the man," reason. These large Churches have had a very significant "theological drift," if you will, from the Ministry of Christ, for a Pope, who has specifically no right to an office of Church infalliblity anyways, took this long to declare homosexuals were not guilty of a "worse," sin than murderers, thieves, adulterers, fornicators, liars, etc. and that they should be respected as gaining family rights within the laws of Caesar, if not the Sacrament, without facing automatic "excommunication," (based on a threat to deny Salvation that is not within the power of the Church anyways), a position on homosexual families that various parables, such as I mentioned, show Christ very likely would have endorsed himself, if asked.

 

[Arwon]

For all the Catholic Church calls itself the Universal Church it's got nothing on the totalising know it all doctrinal certainty of select kinds of protestant

 

[Farm Boy]

With Vatican 2, the expansion of recognized Christianity renders a lot of the salvation denier talk mostly antiquated. They might put you out of church, or just be hardnosed about parts of it. But they let Methodists marry thier Marys in the church these days. Closed communion bothers me, but it's thier ritual, and to them it's a miracle every time. They aren't wrong when they point out I don't believe in transubstantiation, and that's the show they're running. I can get my symbolic miracles in my own house of worship.