Possible Use of HoF Mod for GOTM - now with POLL!

[LordKestrel]

I don't mind if it's allowed for use, but please don't make it mandatory. I don't use it, and don't ever want to be forced into using it. I don't want to have to use some special mod to play, which is why I never did the Civ3 GOTMs.

 

[AlanH]

I'll repeat:

The Civ3 GOTMs don't require a special mod unless you only have vanilla. That is not a valid reason not to play Civ3 GOTMs, and hasn't been for two years.

For vanilla Civ3 the GOTM mod is a near-equivalent to a PtW expansion pack for free. Pretty good value for money.

 

[Thrallia]

I haven't used the HoF mod yet, but I will to see what all the controversy is about.

I, for one, have no problem with a mod that is fairly easy to install and use for the GOTM if it increases security. I can definitely see why people would be opposed to being required to use a mod to play a GOTM, but isn't it possible to bundle the save so that everytime you download the GOTM save, you download, install, and use the HOF mod? That way people who are bad with software or don't want to have to do anything other than download the save can play without the hassles of installing it on their own.

 

[ainwood]

I haven't used the HoF mod yet, but I will to see what all the controversy is about.

I, for one, have no problem with a mod that is fairly easy to install and use for the GOTM if it increases security. I can definitely see why people would be opposed to being required to use a mod to play a GOTM, but isn't it possible to bundle the save so that everytime you download the GOTM save, you download, install, and use the HOF mod? That way people who are bad with software or don't want to have to do anything other than download the save can play without the hassles of installing it on their own.

There is no way to bundle it with the save, but it is fairly easy to install, and its a one-off installation process (and fairly small, as well, so its easy to download, even on dial-up). Further, the seasoned GOTM staff have almost infinite patience, and are quite skilled at providing tech support for people trying to install these things!

 

[ainwood]

BTW - poll now added (sorry it took me so long!)

 

[Dolphan]

From the looks of it, the HOF mod would make it a lot easier to do detailed spoilers, which is great for people like me who just play through the game and then think about writing the spoiler afterwards.

 

[The-Hawk]

From the looks of it, the HOF mod would make it a lot easier to do detailed spoilers, which is great for people like me who just play through the game and then think about writing the spoiler afterwards.

I think this is a great point. It seems to me that the number of spoiler write-ups from the top players is dropping. Can't say I blame them, it takes time (thanks to all who write them!). Anything to make it easier is a good thing. To me the only question on the mod is optional/manditory. Since it is a competition, I decided to vote for manditory. Maybe a "softer" compromise would be to post both versions, but only consider HOF sumissions for the medals and FF awards. Would allow more to participate, but maintain higher quality control on the top games.

 

[HolyHandGrenade]

I love the HoF Mod for the message "City XXX will become unhappy next turn"

 

[azzaman333]

Actually, after downloading and using the HoF mod for a game, I'll say compulsory. Its a small download (less than 1.5 Mb), and there are advantages like more security and the addition of mods that make some of the aspects less time consuming.

 

[Dolphan]

Plus it doesn't really same fair to make the GOTM team deal with two seperate versions of each one when its not really a massive difference.

 

[Murky]

I like the idea of using the HoF mod. Have been considering make a few HoF attempts in the near future.

Is there a way to insure that people can't hack the mod itself before installing it?

 

[drkodos]

I am in the minority, no doubt.

I am not a fan of the mod. To me, it does a great job of making the game easier to play for many people, but at the cost of dumbing the game down, and seeking to level the playing field by doing the very things that in the spirit of the game would be the true TEST and challenge of the human mind playing it.

If the mod is made mandatory, I will not be "playing" GotMs (not submitting them is a more accurate way to express the likely situation). I also think it would be spitefully fooilish to not play the game without the mod installed even if one cannot submit (unless the mod is automtically attached to the download files -- which would suck for me.... ).

One is always free to compare and contrast between combatants, at least in their own minds....

 

[Denniz]

Is there a way to insure that people can't hack the mod itself before installing it?

Yes.

 

[Nares]

Out of curiousity, has there been any evidence so far of players modifying their saved games via information contined within the SDK?

 

[DaviddesJ]

I am not a fan of the mod. To me, it does a great job of making the game easier to play for many people, but at the cost of dumbing the game down, and seeking to level the playing field by doing the very things that in the spirit of the game would be the true TEST and challenge of the human mind playing it.

Remembering to check every city every turn, to see if it grew and the governor put citizens on stupid tiles? Remembering to check the foreign advisor every turn, to see if the AIs discovered new techs? These are just rote procedures; I don't see how you can call them a "test and challenge of the human mind". Maybe I don't understand your point.

 

[DaviddesJ]

If the mod is made mandatory, I will not be "playing" GotMs (not submitting them is a more accurate way to express the likely situation). I also think it would be spitefully fooilish to not play the game without the mod installed even if one cannot submit (unless the mod is automtically attached to the download files -- which would suck for me.... ).

If the mod is mandatory, then you won't be able to load the save file at all, unless you install the mod. If the mod is optional, then there will be two save files, with and without the mod, and you can choose the latter.

 

[Murky]

Even if the mod is mandatory all it's features are not. You can turn off anything that you think would be a dumbing down of the game.

 

[drkodos]

Remembering to check every city every turn, to see if it grew and the governor put citizens on stupid tiles? Remembering to check the foreign advisor every turn, to see if the AIs discovered new techs? These are just rote procedures; I don't see how you can call them a "test and challenge of the human mind". Maybe I don't understand your point.

Memory, or lack of, is and should be a decisive factor in intelligent games. All those things you mentioned are a part of playing the game, depending on what level of micromanagement one desires in their playing style. Learning to "wipe the blood from one's mouth" during wartime enough to manage new populations and older city development is a major part of the challenge of the game. The mod takes away a lot of this and allows a more myopic effort on the part of the participant. Like sport climbing compared to trad.


I would have loved a little prompt at chess tournaments to remind me when a bad bishop should be traded for a knight, but that would be considered cheating in that regard.

As for people not understanding my point, it is obvious from the polling results that most do not. I'm cool with that, else I would not have even posted.

Since it is merely an opinion about a game, I am sure we will all live on. And, if the mod is part of future GotM's then I guess I will miss out unless there is an option to play without it.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Memory, or lack of, is and should be a decisive factor in intelligent games. All those things you mentioned are a part of playing the game, depending on what level of micromanagement one desires in their playing style.

I agree that checking the foreign advisor every turn is part of the (unmodified) game. I do it. But it's not a "test of the human mind". It's just something that I do automatically every turn, and which adds an hour or two to the length of each game. Once I've developed that habit, memory isn't a factor: this is just something that I (and presumably many other GOTM players) do, by rote, every turn.

To extend your chess analogy, it's as if there's a box next to the chessboard, and every turn, you have to remember to open the box and look into it to see if a coin has appeared there. If you forget to look, then your opponent gets an extra move. You could play chess this way. If you did, then learning to look in the box, every turn, before hitting your clock, would be very important. The players who don't or can't do that, would consistently lose to those who do. But does it really improve the chess game? Is it really a sensible way to "test the human mind"?

Civ4 is better than Civ3: in Civ3 I had to open every individual civ's contact page, every turn. In Civ4, I only have to open the foreign advisor (and click to the Technologies tab). I believe they did this because they didn't think the mechanical checking was an interesting part of the game. Would you prefer the Civ3 model, because it requires more effort from the player and therefore makes the game even more of a "challenge"? To me, it's just tedious.

 

[Civgeek]

Since it is merely an opinion about a game, I am sure we will all live on. And, if the mod is part of future GotM's then I guess I will miss out unless there is an option to play without it.

As noted above, you can install the mod - so you could play the GOTM save - but turn everything off in the Options panel - so you would essentially be playing the unmodified game. However, I suspect it will end-up being optional, with two starting saves, anyway so most 'No Mod' players will still be able to participate.