Post a (tough) Deity map for me to play

[shakabrade]

barb cities can only pop from barb units

Wut? Did not know that and never in many years stumbled upon that information. Always thought barb cities spawn by their own mechanics. I even had an experience that barb cities spawned on the only fogged tile, surrounded by unfogged. But maybe it was not spawnbusted. Do you remember the source?

 

[Fippy]

No source, just personal experience (and i also tested many things back then)
I have never seen a barb city spawn on fogged tiles in 100% spawnbusted (but still partly fogged) areas,
but as soon as a barb ran around i saw them pop up. I could be wrong ofc, but am 99%.

 

[shakabrade]

@Fippy. I am sure you have much more games to draw your experience from. I always occupy the food + luxury city spot I want to take with a unit, but this new knowledge could allow more greedy play.

 

[Qactus]

Hmmm, DanF taught otherwise though. In a thread where he answered many questions about barbs spawning, entering borders, teching, etc he showed one example of an efficiently and completely spawnbusted island, and then made this statement regarding barb cities still being able to spawn:

...
Note that barb cities CAN appear 2 tiles away from my units if the tile is in the fog though.

Later in the same thread he doubled down on that statement:

Assume the special case of a lonely heart start. So does this mean that even though I've got barb-busters within 2 tiles of every land tile on my continent outside my cultural borders, a barb city can still spawn on my continent if the tile is in fog?

Yes, I recommend actual fogbusting in the juicy areas with high founding values (lot's of resources, often coastal) where you plan to get a city up via a settler. It's interesting to note that the likelihood for an early barb city spawning on your LHC island is rather low -- the game prefers to spawn them on the continents with the highest number of owned tiles, even if these places are much crappier than the sites on your continent.

 

[Fippy]

In a time where i played many Iso maps, i have never seen a barb city pop up after i had everything fogbusted & cleared off barbs (but ofc without vision on all tiles, which is usually impossible on larger islands).
Maybe it's possible, but i cannot remember even 1 case.

 

[sampsa]

My experience is the same as Fippy's. That doesn't guarantee that it 100% works like that of course.

 

[Fippy]

Found it interesting and made a test
Edited enuf fogbusters in for a whole (big) continent, and gazillions of juicy resis and areas.

Start:

Spoiler :

..and after 70 turns:

Spoiler :

No barb cities in this test.

 

[sampsa]

IIRC the continent needs more (3?) non-barb cities in order for barb cities to spawn.

edit: hmm, maybe I'm just confusing it to when the barbs start to enter human/AI culture...

 

[Qactus]

In a time where i played many Iso maps, i have never seen a barb city pop up after i had everything fogbusted & cleared off barbs (but ofc without vision on all tiles, which is usually impossible on larger islands).
Maybe it's possible, but i cannot remember even 1 case.

Yes, I posted that reference mainly out of curiosity for the game mechanics, in case anybody reading it has a definitive answer.
But for my actual play your experience from so many games will indeed be more valuable and certainly reason enough to drop the habit of fogbusting important settling sites in addition to spawnbusting them.

 

[Fippy]

Fair enuf, second test with 4 cities (also improved some areas and fogbusters to allow more space).
T1

Spoiler :

T70

Spoiler :

 

[Lain]

Great test and good to know, thanks Fippy . I also remember many situations where I saw some barb wandering around and then barb city popped up there. And in isolation after fogbusting everything never had a city pop up.

 

[Major Tom]

Thanks for test @Fippy . I am not sure, but isn’t it something about a certain average size of cities on the map they can appear?
Could you care to take last test with your cities at size 3?

 

[Fippy]

Sure will do at some point.

 

[regoarrarr]

@Lain - first post in 9 years on CivFanatics to say that I think that in your latest Justinian Deity game didn't Qin found Mining Inc? If so, that's probably why he wouldn't trade Silver

Thanks for all the Civ IV Deity game streams - you got me back into Civ IV and I started streaming it over on Twitch

 

[Anysense]

On the next page DanF said

Although MIN_BARBARIAN_CITY_STARTING_DISTANCE = MIN_BARBARIAN_STARTING_DISTANCE = 2, the rules are different. Barb cities can definitely spawn in a units BFS as long as no non-barb player has active vision for that tile. (That's also why the AI sends there GUARD_CITY units out to the chosen city sites.) It has happened to me before.

When do barbarian units enter cultural borders

Edit: it is not clear what he meant by "AI sends there GUARD_CITY units out to the chosen city sites". Probably that within 2 tiles of any players units barb cities can't spawn unless guard is already in place?

 

[soundjata]

@Lain - first post in 9 years on CivFanatics to say that I think that in your latest Justinian Deity game didn't Qin found Mining Inc? If so, that's probably why he wouldn't trade Silver

Thanks for all the Civ IV Deity game streams - you got me back into Civ IV and I started streaming it over on Twitch

I had the same reaction for Qin not wanting to trade silver

 

[Fippy]

I've not further tested this yet, sowy but as mentioned it's almost 100% certain that barb units are needed for barb cities.
At least i would be if not true.

 

[Jarno]

Did Lain stream last weekend or was it postponed? On youtube it says that we're still waiting for Lain Civ 4 Deity

 

[Lain]

Had to cancel it on short notice . Next saturday again

 

[Jarno]

Ok no worries, now I'll just have to work today instead of watching youtube. My boss will be delighted