Pre-EkoNES: Fall From Heaven

[Adrogans]

Ah, I was trying to avoid the age issue with the whole fallen angel angle...

 

[Terrance888]

There is a good Dynastic Rise and Fall in the New Neses Ideas and Development post my Lord Joakim that I can conjure up. Will be right back.


Here it is if anyone is interested. Eat your soul out!

Spoiler :

lord_joakim presents:​

The Magnificent Dynasty and New Economical Sytems​

version 2.0b

Yes. Flaws are there. Problems with NES rules have always been plentiful. It is difficult to find the balance between easy interface (That means few numbers) and somewhat effecient realism. One of the most well-known economical models, NES2, was probably the most effecient of the simple economical system. Having revolutionized the NESing world, it was meant to make NESing more strategical and game-alike. There were some flaws though - it didn't really allow for Terrific Downfalls of the world nations, as long as the player owning the nation played at least reasonably. The initial SerfNES ruleset allowed for projects to be built passively, but that only made economy much easier to get through projects than ordinarily. Some other NES rulesets are too technical (for my taste, at least) or too detailed for Mods to update properly. The sole purpose of NES rulesets are to make an economical model which is a) easily accessable b) realistic and c) fun.

I have attempted another ruleset, once again. My own Lords of Sicily ruleset was... Well, not good enough. Even though it was okay, I mean, provincial economy was represented, it was too technical and required an aweful lot of micromanagement. This is the new beta system:

~ --- ~​

Blank stats:

Nation name/Player:
Government/Dynasty (Strength):
Culture/Religion:
Population (Ethnicities):
Stability/Infrastructure:
Agriculture:
Industry:
Trade (Partners):
Army/Navy:
Military details:
Other:

Filled stats:

Nation name/Player: France/Insane Panda
Government/Dynasty: Absolute Monarchy/Napoleonic (Brilliant)
Culture/Religion: French/Catholicism
Population (Ethnicities): 10.3 (French-Catholic), 3 (French-Protestant), 2 (Gallic-Pagan)
Stability/Infrastructure: 2.7/4.1
Agriculture/Balance: 32.3/1.0
Industry/Balance: 13.8/-0.2
Trade (Partners): +0.2 Stability/turn (Spain); -0.1 Stability/turn, +0.1 Industry/turn (England);
Army/Navy: 26 Levy (French-Catholic), 10 Infantry (French-Catholic) / 4 Carrack, 10 Galleon
Military details: Galleon +0.4 strength
Other: Levée en Masse (x1.3 Number Modifier for Levy), Versailles (+0.1 Dynasty/turn obsolete w/Government change)

Explanations

Nation name/Player
Should be self-explanatory.

Government/Dynasty
A government is of course the system that rules the nation. It has a good importance on exactly how much influence you have on your nation, and how things work in your nation. Fx., an absolute despot has absolutely all power in your nation but is on the other hand very depending on the ruler, and internal struggles is almost a certainity, while a democracy allows for quick and painless dynasty exchanges if your ruler is not very good.

The dynasty system is something new to the NESing community - I am new, and I invented it, so of course it's new. It is a number defining your current royal dynasty/leading party's effeciency ruling your nation. It is working as a simple subtraction/addition stat, giving your investments from a shared boost of 5.0 or take away a shared price of 5.0 (As -5.0 is the lowest a Dynasty point can get whilst maximum is 5.0). The levels of your Dynasty Effecience are named as:

Dreadful (-5.0 to -4.1) - Terrible (-4.0 to -3.1) - Bad (-3.0 to -2.1) - Problematic (-2.0 to -1.1) - Improper (-1.0 to -0.1) - Average (0 to 1.0) - Good (1.1 to 2.0) - Effecient (2.1 to 3.0) - Ingenious (3.1 to 4.0) - Brilliant (4.1 to 5.0)​

So when you do two improvements fx. - one reforming agriculture, the other improving the rifles of your military, you will get to give an extra of x investment depending on your dynasty. For an instance, you pay 3.8 industry into both, and have a Dynasty with the level of Ingenious - then you have about 3.5 extra industry to put into both. You can assume what you want - just tell the mod to spend heavily into one thing and lightly into another. From that the mod will spend whatever he felt that the player was stating.

Of course, old dynasties suffer from being old. Not all empires remain great, in fact all ancient empires have fallen (Perhaps except China in some people's eyes, but I think the different dynasties were different states - nvm, another topic...) and we would of course need a system to implement that. The system is, of course, already somewhat simulated in this ruleset

After each turn, your Dynasty points decrease by a decimal. Initially this decimal is 0.2. This simulates that old dynasties have an tendency to be quite... well, narrowminded, and therefore ineffecient and obsolete. You can, however, at any time do a revolution - government or royal house change - or in modern democratic nations, switch governmental parties - which will reroll you a new dynasty strength. This will cost stability however, and beware, you can be unlucky and get a -4.2 strength dynasty. Of course, switching governmental type costs more stability than switching dynasty.

Culture/Religion
Displays your state culture and religion. This is important to some nations, fx OTL America, who has several cultural minorities.

Population (Ethnicities)
The display displays how many people that lives in your nation as well as their cultural background. It can of course be problematic to host several cultures in one nation for your stability. Population is used for working in your industry as well as being drafted into soldiers and naval crew and requires food to be withstood without losing stability or population.

Stability/Infrastructure
Displays your national stability as well as your infrastructure. The two stats have nothing to do with each other, but put together becaue both are represented with a number. Infrastructure represents your internal development, and a good infrastructure means that your dynasty has it easier improving your industry, moving troops etc. A bad stability means more revolts yadda yadda. Both are displayed with a word, representing the same values as in Dynasty:

Dreadful (-5.0 to -4.1) - Terrible (-4.0 to -3.1) - Bad (-3.0 to -2.1) - Problematic (-2.0 to -1.1) - Improper (-1.0 to -0.1) - Average (0 to 1.0) - Good (1.1 to 2.0) - Effecient (2.1 to 3.0) - Ingenious (3.1 to 4.0) - Brilliant (4.1 to 5.0)​

Agriculture/Balance
Displays the current strength of your national food economy. Food is required to feed your population and military. The balance displayed to the right displays whether you have a surplus or famine - lack of food, of course, leads to loss of population as well as internal problems in your nation, leading to loss of stability or even industry sometimes.

Industry/Balance
Displays the current strength of your national industry economy. Production is required to improve any part of your national stance, ie. Stability, Agriculture, buying troops and increasing Industry aswell. The balance displays whether you have industrial surplus or industrial loss - this is determined by whatever numbers of military you have, as military lower your military capacity. Therefore, more military, lower balance.

Trade (Partners)
This is a tricky one. Whilst Trading Agreements in other NESes meant nothing, in this they will mean much more. You agree with each other what the conditions of the trade means - you can actually transfer stability from a nation to another. The same with dynasty strength, Agricultural capacity etc. The Trade system in this game is meant for teamplay and diplomacy. And yes, it does make sense.

Army/Navy
Displays the current numbers of your army/navy regiments and flotillas.

Military details
Any specifics of your military is displayed here. Instead of unique units you can get special feats from your army through projects.

Other
General projects and effects for your nation. Anything can be displayed here.

----

What about this one, then? The updated areas are bolded. And I was *this* close naming the lowest word value (Dreadful) "Like a DwarfNES".

The Main point is possibly Dynastic Strength and then maybe the abilities will be affected by that. Then the Dynasties will have a ratio of Military/Social Families that you can use as leaders in the early parts of the game.

Lurking and dying with interest.

 

[LDiCesare]

Dynasties are not appropriate unless you're in a feudal model. Roman Republic, Athenian Democracy, the Pope, Republic of Venice, for instance can't be represented with a dynastic system. Reducing the dynasty to a single fiure also adds zero flavor in my opinion.
What can be interesting is not so much Leaders as Characters. You could use your Character as a leader, general, inventor, explorer, adventurer or whatnot and get a bonus because you used him/her this way. The character may not live more than a few turns, or if you have a long lived race, you would get fewer which means the number will remain constant.

 

[Ekolite]

It would have been good of you to ask before you advertsied in my thread, Charles Li.

 

[Immaculate]

I don't think he was advertising- he was showing you someone's model of dynasties in case you wanted to try and implement something similiar.

EDIT: i think its been a bit since lord joakim was 'new'.

 

[Ekolite]

Oh right, sorry I only scanned through it quickly.

I don't think dynasties is the answer unfortunately, most government types in this NES wouldn't work with it.

 

[Terrance888]

Dynasties are not appropriate unless you're in a feudal model. Roman Republic, Athenian Democracy, the Pope, Republic of Venice, for instance can't be represented with a dynastic system. Reducing the dynasty to a single fiure also adds zero flavor in my opinion.
What can be interesting is not so much Leaders as Characters. You could use your Character as a leader, general, inventor, explorer, adventurer or whatnot and get a bonus because you used him/her this way. The character may not live more than a few turns, or if you have a long lived race, you would get fewer which means the number will remain constant.

Then a bonus for being a short-lived race is adaptability: When there is more war you get more militaric orginated Characters while with longer lived race you get stabler bonuses but fewer flexibility and characters in general. I like this Idea alot.

Sorry If I post my feelings all of a sudden. I am just like that.

IIRC I once made a theory about settled Great People: Their disendents and close diciples continue his work under his name when you settle him while by building a acadamy for example is just a storage for his and his generational Ideas which inriches the future. That is what I ment by my Dynastic Post: a series of related people who have similar ideas about something.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

I actually do agree with what Charles Said about different bonuses for short or long lived races... differnet bonuses: stability vs adaptability

 

[Ekolite]

Bad News.

Exams have reared their ugly head, and I have approximately 6 weeks to prepare. For this reason, EkoNES will be postponed until around late april to early may.

I'm very sorry, as I was really looking forward to starting this. However, it may in fact be a blessing in disguise as it will give me a great deal of time to even out all the little problems and balance issues that would no doubt be plagueing the NES had it started in March.

I know May is a long time to wait, but I am confident that it will as a result nbe a much better NES, as not only will there be less mechanical problems, but I will have more time for writing updates and maintaining their quality.

Appologies.

Ekolite.

 

[Immaculate]

Damnit!
Now where's that tantrum smiley?

:tantrum:

 

[Diamondeye]

You mean like the one?

Anyway, bad luck. Looking foward to getting this running (and get those stupid exams done ). So long, Eko

 

[Ekolite]

I will still be on the forums fairly regularly so if you have any questions or ideas related to EkoNES then PM me or post in this thread. I'm going to be developing this NES during this time.

 

[MasterofDisasta]

Would it be possible for me to reserve a spot as the Elohim? I posted a few pages back but I think it might have gotten missed.

 

[Ekolite]

Added to the list.

 

[kenkrajen]

any spots left?

 

[Ekolite]

Technically no, but I may decide to add a few players. If I do would you want a spot?

 

[kenkrajen]

yeah def. but i'd like a choice of some civs. i join immac's NES and the last spot was a custom civ. it's cool, but second time around i'd like to pick.

 

[orangelex44]

I think you should be able to; Immac's NES was a special case since it had already begun when you wanted to join.

 

[Immaculate]

Like for me and orange when we joined thejopa's.

i.

 

[KillerClowns]

So, what are your present plans regarding religions? Will we be limited to the original seven, or am I free to devise a horrific Cult of Ceridwen with which to pacify my serfs and manipulate my foes? I'm assuming the main way of founding religions will be through research in Culture and Society, but will other lines (e.g. the Arcane) help?