Pre-EkoNES: Fall From Heaven

I didn't mean faith didn't fit all religions. I ment temples didn't. Councilors of Esus would probably get less credit from their god from praying and more by doing sneaky actions (much like Elan in the Chaosium Stormbringer roleplaying game where you gained favor from your god depending on your actions, they liked prayers but for heroes or priests, they expected "more").
If you played the Ljosalfar/Svartalfar scenario in FfH, or read the text files for the ending when you win as the Ljosalfar, it's got great stuff about the Council of Esus, where clearly the number of followers doesn't matter much, but the sneakiness of the leader matters immensely.
 
This is allowed for. Esus ''temples'' would be something like a Thieves Guild, it would provide Gold to the government (like a kind of tax to allow it to exist unhinderred), but would increase crime. It would alos provide a small amount of culture because all temple buildings do this regardless of what they actually are.

Generally the player will be allowed to design the effects of their temples, as well as what they actually are and what people do there, (and how this earns their God's favour). They also design what kind of things their priests are able to do.

The favour of the Gods is flexible however, and you may lose some favour as a result of your actions or random events, weakening your priests of that religion. Of course you can have multiple religions and multiple types of priest so that should be ok.

There is a spy unit in EkoNES revealed quite early in the game. A priest of Esus could probably have similiar effects to this.
 
Sorry for being late, I sent you a PM last night, Ekolite. With my mail adress and so on. I have not yet recieved anything to my mailbox or pmbox.
 
Artificial vs Natural Population Growth

Lately i've been considering changing the way population and growth occur by replacing the metaphoric, representative number (ie. 5 population points) with an actual figure (such as 14,564 people). This would have numerous benefits, and would be far more realistic.

Instead of being able to control when your cities grow based on how much food you have, population would increase by a percentage every turn in all your cities and minor towns. There would be certain ranges in population, such as 1000-1999, which would be representative of the size of the population, and once the population grows outside of this range the player would need to pay gold and invest production to expand the city. If they failed to do this, the incomes of minor towns would be reduced greatly, and government approval, health and stability stats in cities would decrease, while crime would increase. This would lead to lots of nasty problems.

The growth rate would be a city stat controlled by the stability, health and approval rates in the city, as well as the amount of excess food the nation has. Certain buildings would require a level of population to build, but some, like a Mytic's Lodge would have a maximum level before they cease to be effective. Further, the higher your population, the more food you will need to produce or import. The preliminary figure is 1 food required per 1000 people per turn, although this may change (food is already ''eaten'' by your population uner the current system).

This system would stop food from being such a controlling factor, which isn't too realistic, although excess food levels would still be the easiest way to increase or decrease your growth rate. The system also means that controlling your population becomes a serious issue, as they could become unmannageable if the population gets too high. Certain buildings, projects and events will affect the growth rate, and it allows events such as disease to decrease the population rate without completely screwing over the targetted player. It also means that drafting, training and retraining units can cost small amounts of population, which is a small but very nice detail which adds that little touch of realsim.

The benefits of this system to events and realism are huge, although it does add an extra level of complexity which some people may not like.

I would appreciate any comments or suggestions one way or the other, because I haven't quite made up my mind as of yet.
 
This, of course, will make human sacrifice more complex then "convert food to X" as well. I assume it will now instead take the form of a growth rate (and possibly morale) penalty?
EDIT: Inquiring about the mechanics of human sacrifice... what a fitting 666th post.
 
Hmmm... I don't see why a human sacrifice would do anything other then kill off a couple of hundred of population. I never liked the fact that a human sacrifice would just take away a bit of food, the same thing as a rat infestation or bad harvest.

Of course, approval or stability would decrease with most sacrifices, which would reduce your growth rate for a little while, making it more difficult for you to grow your population in the next few turns, which is perhaps the real cost of the sacrifice. So in that way you're right, it would indirectly (and only temporarily) reduce the growth rate by affecting other factors.

Of course, the sacrifices would still provide the effects we talked about, as well as possibly some faith to make your priests more powerful that turn.

I'm going to start experimenting with a formula on the email spreadsheet.
 
I REALLY LIKE that we havn't even started playing and we've already discussed human sacrifice (i notice that said human and not dwarf and this pleases me). Keep up the good work killer.

Also- exact population scores seem like an interested way to go. I'm going to do me damndest to find a way to have a number other then zero after the decimal point in the population of one of my cities.
 
Yes, real population figures are good.
Usually growth is mostly limited by what food can sustain your population, but there's an issue of growth rate vs race:
Long lived races should grow slower than short lived ones.
Of course, the question is which races are long lived?
Sidar, but all Sidar may not be immortal. And immortal female Sidars won't reproduce, being humans, since humans can't give birth when they have no eggs left in their ovaries. Death rate may be an issue, however.
Elves of Tolkienesque tradition, but FfH elves are just humans that were changed by worshipping a god, so there's no readon they should live much longer (particularly considering their god died fighting Mulcarn).
Dwarves, but their lifespans decreased generation after generation, so it could be admitted that the youngest generations have a human lifespan.
So it's probably ok to ignore the lifespan issue since it can be rationalised that all races have the same lifespan. This has repercussions on stories that can be written however. If someone really wants a longer-lived race, they would have to reproduce more slowly. This could mean they would suffer less from overpopulation when the crops are bad.
 
Ok, it would be nice to have you on board, even if only temporarilly.

Yes, real population figures are good.
Usually growth is mostly limited by what food can sustain your population, but there's an issue of growth rate vs race:
Long lived races should grow slower than short lived ones.
Of course, the question is which races are long lived?
Sidar, but all Sidar may not be immortal. And immortal female Sidars won't reproduce, being humans, since humans can't give birth when they have no eggs left in their ovaries. Death rate may be an issue, however.
Elves of Tolkienesque tradition, but FfH elves are just humans that were changed by worshipping a god, so there's no readon they should live much longer (particularly considering their god died fighting Mulcarn).
Dwarves, but their lifespans decreased generation after generation, so it could be admitted that the youngest generations have a human lifespan.
So it's probably ok to ignore the lifespan issue since it can be rationalised that all races have the same lifespan. This has repercussions on stories that can be written however. If someone really wants a longer-lived race, they would have to reproduce more slowly. This could mean they would suffer less from overpopulation when the crops are bad.
Click to expand...

I hadn't considered death rates yet, but they are an excellent idea and can be directly controlled by health and lack of food.

I intend to gloss over the long-living thing entirely. I do not want various factions to have different growth mechanisms as that will be impossible to balance correctly. If the sidar were an issue, players can take the assumption that only a small proportion of the sidar are shades and the rest are humans. These humans are very cautious and keep themselves to themselves, meaning that they are often mistaken for real shades. I read a story or pedia entry once which explained this in quite a nice way.

Basically, people can claim that their race is more long-lived for reason x, y or z, but as a consequence these people are far more vulnerable to the flu, AIDS, or spontaneous combustion, meaning that overall, their rates are suprisingly similiar to other races.

I don't see why this would affect stories particularly, we are already on a set timescale so these people would probably die over time anyway.
 
Not true, LDI:

Both Faeryl and Aerendale were alice during the age of magic, the Age of ice, and the age of rebirth.
 
I really like the sound of the natural populace.

And KC, posts in here do not cound towards postcount afaik - so it cannot be your 666th post. Still, I get the point :p
 
Diamondeye said:
I really like the sound of the natural populace.

And KC, posts in here do not cound towards postcount afaik - so it cannot be your 666th post. Still, I get the point :p
Click to expand...

Well, as I'm posting, my post count says 667. If it says 668, (EDIT: and it does!) the magical mystery will be solved. (They DO count!)

Anyways, I assume things like discovering medical and sanitation techs will make one civilization's people more long-lived then the other, right?
 
It will provide buildings which improve the health of your city, indirectly affecting growth.
 
If you still need MORE reserve players I could fill in. Can't promise to be quite as interesting as Orange though, heh.
 
I certainly would enjoy the real population numbers idea for the extra dimension of realism and ability to understand just how large these cities are. I don't mind adding extra stats, but then again, I think the one who feels the greatest burden from having all these numbers in play is the moderator. So if you're fine with it Ekolite, I would definitely enjoy it.
 
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