Pre-KhanNES: The Clash of Ideas

Grandkhan · Jul 31, 2012

There are quite a few secondary powers. Italy, for example. Nigeria, East Africa, Indonesia, Brazil, and Argentina.

I guess if nobody takes Italy or something I can open Sweden up, but I'd rather the original countries be taken first, you know. Mostly to maintain the distribution of players around the world.

DC123456789 · Jul 31, 2012

What's the democracy-facism-communism balance right now?

BILLSIF · Jul 31, 2012

One Commie [USSR]
Four Fascists [China, Gran Colombia, Malia, France]
Three Democracies [USA, Oceania, South Africa]
Does not lean totally to one side/We are unsure of. Respectively [Germany, Egypt]
Two Reserved [Japan & India]

Edit:Added DC's corrections.

DC123456789 · Jul 31, 2012

^ Malia is facist, Germany democratic/facist, France probably closest to Facist, Egypt I have no idea yet.

Edit: So... we probably need another communist country to keep the balance.

SouthernKing · Jul 31, 2012

Geographical Polity: India
Name of Country: India
Ideology: Gandhism (a form of democratic socialism) This ideology aims for a socialistic economy while at the same time rejecting violent class warfare, believing that true equality can only be achieved through peace. It believes in an agrarian and self-sufficient economy, attempting to meet the material needs and wants of its people first before industrializing and exporting goods, and aiming for complete social justice and equality. It also rejects any religious influence in government, believing that all religions should be treated equally. Overall it is a very pacifist ideology, although this last part is being increasingly deviated from.
Current Leader: Jawaharlal Nehru
Brief History: The British gave India independence, after continued Indian resistance to the Raj plus troubles in the wake of WWI made it difficult to retain control, attempting to set up a provisional government. However, in the first years there was much fighting, between princes, Hindus, Muslims, and almost everyone else. However, in the latter half of the 1920s, Gandhi and his supporters were able to come to power, advocating peaceful reform and consolidation of India. The current Indian state came into existence in 1932.

Nintz · Jul 31, 2012

DC123456789 said:
^ Malia is facist, Germany democratic/facist, France probably closest to Facist, Egypt I have no idea yet.

Edit: So... we probably need another communist country to keep the balance.

I'm fascist???

Perhaps slightly, but I see my ideologly as a mix of fascism and republic-stlye democracy. I have far more of a emphasis on individual rights and freedoms than the true fascist nations after all. In fact, I would imagine my nation would be rather oppesed to extreme fascism or democracy, and vehemently against communism. Dosen't really fit any of the three categories, I think.

Also, Egypt is a Divine Monarchy. Not Fascist, Communist, Or Democratic. One ruler appointed by god, the "Caliph" in this case.

EDIT:

So, in my opinion, the current idea balance would be:

Communism: USSR

Fascism: China, France, Gran Colombia

Democracy: USA, Oceania, South Africa

Socialism: India

Mixed Governments: Malia, Germany

Monarchy: Egypt

The reason you can't do a three way triangle is that many diffenrent ideologies exist, completely independent of one another.

Lord of Elves · Jul 31, 2012

@Grandkhan, unless someone already addressed its loss, France should have the easternmost of the Guyannas. It's such an incidental, small colony that France still has it now. Without significant foreign intervention, there's no precedent for France not continuing to have French Guyanna.

Grandkhan · Jul 31, 2012

Yeah I think its a bit weird to lump Mali in with the fascists. Really, trying to lump most of the countries together into vaguely defined blocs is difficult. Nintz probably has it closer, but I'm not sure thats close to the truth - for example, German democracy has a significant nationalist bent. Its not just mixed, its nationalist democracy.

@DC123456789; Yeah, some of the NPCs will also be some form of radical socialism or communism or something else I thought of thats equally left wing.

@LoE; I decided to make French Guiana independent so that there were more countries in Latin America for Brazil, Argentina, and Gran Colombia to fight over. I'm house ruling it that Germany got it in WW2 and decolonized it almost immediately afterwards. It has a massive Creole population - the French fascists can't have been that popular there.

On another note, we're just waiting on Kaiser and ELITEOFWARMAN8, and then I will finish writing up the history and start the NES, since it doesn't look like many more people are going to join.

I am excited.

Spoiler Egypt Stats :

Spoiler India Stats :

SouthernKing · Jul 31, 2012

Looks good, just one thing, Gandhism is spelled like <-- .

Nintz · Jul 31, 2012

@Grandkhan- I am guessing that any countries not picked (i.e. Italy, Nigeria, Iran, etc.) will just turn into minor powers? Or will they be major power NPC nations run by you? It would be weird to have Britain as a minor nation, even with it's defeats.

Edit: After below post, it wouldn't be as weird to turn secondary unclaimed powers into NPCs, I think. Still wondering about this though.

erez87 · Jul 31, 2012

I can't promise I'll be the best player but...

Geographical Polity: Great Britain
Name of Country: United Socialist Republic of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Ideology: Social Democracy
Current Leader: Prime Minister Edward Schlief
Brief History: After losing WW1 the British Empire lost all of its colonies and most of its dominions begun to grow further away. The collapse of the empire caused a huge economic collapse at home. Most of the population quickly found itself unemployed and too poor to even get bread. Rising food and fuel priced during the 1920's drove the population into extremes. British elections of 1924 saw the rise of the fascists and socialists, disappearance of the conservatives and labor, and the attack on the royal palace that have killed nearly all of the royal family (unknown if it was by socialists or fascists). By the elections of 1929 the Socialists and Fascists were evenly matched, leaving it to the far smaller but important liberal faction to decide the fate of the state. Choosing to side with the more open minded socialist Britain quickly turned from a hugely conservative capitalist state into a socialist state. With state farmlands quickly rising across the island and lowered food prices the socialists won the hearts of the people who felt saved.
The second great war between France and Germany saw the British choosing isolation over another loss, leaving the French to another huge loss.
By 1935 the Socialists and Liberals outlawed the fascist party and the Social Democratic state was quickly growing in economic power. Small skirmishes with Argentina over the Falkland islands saw the British victorious, giving more faith in the social cause. The situation for all British people was quickly becoming better. By 1945 the monarchy was completely abolished (surprisingly the royal family left Britain and settled down in Australia) and the Social Democracy won again.
Now the British are at the crossroads. Can this social state survive and improve (like RL Sweden/Norway...)? And what side are the British closer to? The Democratic or the Socialist?

Krzowwh · Jul 31, 2012

In an attempt to place the nations with enough ideological detail within a triangle with each of the corners a different extreme (alla HOI), I have made this:

Spoiler :

I'm not sure how accurate it is, but I think it's a better method than grouping the nations into varied definitions, which are already generalized by default.

DC123456789 · Jul 31, 2012

Looks fine, other than the fact that it's pretty rough.

Lord of Elves · Jul 31, 2012

@Grandkhan, do I own the Zanzibar Islands? Keeping in mind that the Zanzibar Isles were released after the rest of British Tanganyika/East Africa by the British OTL.

Grandkhan · Jul 31, 2012

@Erez: v. nice. A couple of details though - I think Egypt's history had something about an attack by Britain on the Suez during WW2, though we can retcon that into an isolated assault on the territory rather than entry into the Great War.

Also, Britain lost some of its colonies later, eg. India was lost in the 30ies. All good though, I can retcon most of that into the official history.

@Nintz: Depends. Most (possibly all) will turn into NPC nations, some will be minors. For example, its hard to see a non-powerful Indonesia, due to its population, but East Africa could conceivably be split up and return to minor status. I will decide on a case-by-case basis.

@Krzowwh: Yeah, that might be a better way to describe the ideologies. Blocs implies that they're allied, which they might not be. I might make a two-axis ideological graph of the ideologies at some point, to better describe where they lie relative to eachother.

@LoE: Yeah, I was actually intending to edit that in. You also have Reunion island.

KaiserElectric · Jul 31, 2012

Surprising amount of fascists for the post World War era.

Nintz · Jul 31, 2012

KaiserElectric said:
Surprising amount of fascists for the post World War era.

True, but this is an alternate post-WW era, in which the fascists actually won. This resulted in a number of communist and socialistic/democratic nations drifting towards fascism to some degree I think. Not totally unreasonable when you think about it.

@Grandkhan-

I don't think population is directly proportionate to power. Infrastucture and cultural homogenity are also important. There is a reason countries like France, England, and Germany are often better than their Asian couterparts, even with less population.

I would submit that, of the current nations unclaimed, only Brazil is really unconcievebly minor. Its population, size, and vast amounts of natural resources mean it is really set up to succeed big I think. East Africa can be split, Nigeria too if need be. Italy is not much better than Spain or Sweden to begin with. Iran is not really a large nation, in any way at this time. Not a need for a major power. Indonesia is too rural and disjointed to function as a powerful nation, similar to India but much much worse. I could easily see a handful of weaker, smaller islands nations splintering off. And Argentina is not really any more powerful than other nations in the area, just physically larger, unless I am wrong.

I don't know, it just seems only Brazil could not be a minor power, in my opinion. And leaving Gran Colombia the only South America major power would be bad.

EDIT: In an unrelated note, how exactly do projects work? Do we tell you what project we plan on, then you give us a EP estimate to completion, or does something else happen?

momo1000 · Jul 31, 2012

Nintz said:
And leaving Gran Colombia the only South America major power would be bad.

No it wouldn't

KaiserElectric · Jul 31, 2012

Geographical Polity: Japan
Name of Country: Great Imperial State of Japan (Dai Nippon Teikoku)
Ideology: Imperial Monarchy (Similar to WWII era Japan in OTL, but with a few socialist reforms in place. While similar in nature to fascism, the Japanese government isn't dedicated to any particular ideology and pursues a diplomatic policy similar to Realpolitik.)
Current Leader: Emperor Shōwa (Hirohito)
Brief History: After a humiliating defeat in the Second Sino-Japanese War, the foundation of the mighty Japanese Empire began to crack as reparation payments to China and Japan hurt the economy and different political movements began to demand a greater say in how the nation was run. Realizing that ignorance or suppression of the growing dissent could lead to a bloody revolution like the one in the Soviet Union, Hirohito invited the dissatisfied parties to a national congress, the Shōwa Diet, for the purpose of reinvigorating the Japanese Empire. Despite misgivings between the political parties, the congress was successful in passing a handful of worker's reform laws and rebuilding the military to an acceptable standard, among other new laws and reforms. Coupled with the growth of trade between Japan and the rest of the Pacific and the Chinese ending reparation payments, the reforms were successful in healing the ailing economy, and the threat of rebellion virtually disappeared. Despite the strength of the Japanese Empire, Hirohito did not wish to involve Japan in another huge war so soon and chose to remain neutral in the Second World War, although Japan did fight the USA to a standstill to defend her interests in the Pacific. Japan also supported the sovereignty of Korea against the Soviet Union, successfully preventing a Communist takeover of the peninsula.

Despite the key reforms passed beforehand, Japan has entered the new era independent of the petty squabbles over political theories that other nations have endured, ready to take her place on the world stage. But in a new world where ideas dominate the battlefield and countries can be wiped from the map in seconds, can the Empire of the Rising Sun hope to survive?

Spoiler :

Grandkhan · Jul 31, 2012

Nintz said:
@Grandkhan-

I don't think population is directly proportionate to power. Infrastucture and cultural homogenity are also important. There is a reason countries like France, England, and Germany are often better than their Asian couterparts, even with less population.

I would submit that, of the current nations unclaimed, only Brazil is really unconcievebly minor. Its population, size, and vast amounts of natural resources mean it is really set up to succeed big I think. East Africa can be split, Nigeria too if need be. Italy is not much better than Spain or Sweden to begin with. Iran is not really a large nation, in any way at this time. Not a need for a major power. Indonesia is too rural and disjointed to function as a powerful nation, similar to India but much much worse. I could easily see a handful of weaker, smaller islands nations splintering off. And Argentina is not really any more powerful than other nations in the area, just physically larger, unless I am wrong.

I don't know, it just seems only Brazil could not be a minor power, in my opinion. And leaving Gran Colombia the only South America major power would be bad.

EDIT: In an unrelated note, how exactly do projects work? Do we tell you what project we plan on, then you give us a EP estimate to completion, or does something else happen?

Nigeria was kind of stopped in becoming a regional power because of ethnic strife (see the Biafra war) and an inability to get its middle class going. It could conceivably be a regional power in Africa, or it could collapse. Thats part of the game. Argentina was the second largest economy in South America for some time, and had the 4th largest GDP per capita in the 20ies until the Great Depression got in the way. Then it fell to the military dictatorship and Chile got its economy going.

Indonesia has been a regional power in South East Asia for years, and a lot of Australian foreign policy has been about dealing with Indonesia. It did have a lot of sway, and there has been a history of Indonesia clashing with other countries in the region enough to make it something of a powerbroker. This Indonesia is missing Aceh, Timor, and Borneo, but its still got the core urban parts of Indonesia, which should help.

Either way, its a moot point because one of the reasons that these countries are there is to make the NES interesting and get some more diversity going. If it was entirely just European powers competing over Africa, it would get boring fast. So yeah, most of the regional powers are staying as NPCs.

Projects work basically how you said. You give me a project you want to do and spend some EP on it, I'll give you an EP cost for completion. The project won't be finished until that total cost will be spent on it, over multiple turns or only one if you can do it fast enough.

EDIT: Stats for Great Britain and for Japan

Spoiler Japan Stats :

Spoiler Britain Stats :

Pre-KhanNES: The Clash of Ideas

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