Pre-SysNES2: Beta-testing and Submission

Notice Refined Fission Rockets are 3 Mass / 3 Size just like unrefined; is the lack of a patch to 2 each an oversight, or off the table?

I'm also going to publicly suggest the Ion Drive be set to 0 power instead of -1. Even after Fission Drives are nerfed (notice stock have 0 power now instead of 1 previously?), having to put a power source behind the Ion just absolutely destroys whatever edge it might have in small applications compared to main drives.

Fission Rocket: 4e, 0m, 5v
Fission Core + Ion Drive: 7e, 5m, 2v

9i vs 14i. You can make the case the Ion solution is superior for a low-v society or something but the tradeoff costs are so marginal and it's application is so niche that it's not even worth including as a component really, if it needs a power core. The solution is not further nerfing the Fission Rocket, or you make both useless; it's making the Ion Drive independent of power. With the only-one-allowed caveat, it can't really be abused.
 
World Value seems terribly incomplete. The only pop preferences it looks at right now are the ones for forests and jungles.
 
World Value seems terribly incomplete. The only pop preferences it looks at right now are the ones for forests and jungles.

You're derping, it uses the entire WV page to calculate values using sumproduct for speed. It does cold forests and jungles separately as those are combinations of traits rather than single traits.
 
You're a derp, it uses the entire WV page to calculate values using sumproduct for speed. It does cold forests and jungles separately as those are combinations of traits rather than single traits.
I'm a derp indeed; I clicked a few random cells to check if it did that, but the cells I clicked (Jovian, Rubble Ring, Very Hot) don’t get modified by any policies.

When can we expect to see tech-trading costs/discounts?

Base costs are [1/5 * number of jumps] e per mvfa, and [1/50 * number of jumps] e per e. It's always rounded up, so shipping things in units of 5 and 50 is the most efficient. e is used as currency as its the easiest to move about.

Does anything change if, instead of using merchant ships, you use state ships to move resources around?

Also, you mention number of jumps. Trading resources via merchant routes is still limited by the one jump per turn rule, or no?


Edit:

Yan starts with a Mining Complex in The Glades (405), even though there’s nothing to mine there.

The Habitat calculator will claim a production in areas that can’t produce a according to the Worlds page; that if-clause is missing.

Media centres reduce social stress in every single region that came earlier on the spreadsheet.

A total of 6 of Lipsid Beta’s financial trade segments are currently controlled, and the max is 5, no?

Can you create multiple market shares in one turn?

You’ve mentioned ships are available for use the turn after they’re ordered. The same true of specialist teams?

Can the Designer’s (specialist) refined building ability be used from onboard a ship with an Engineering Bay? If so, can it be used to build the initial base for its refined cost?

An IS-capable ship with an Engineering Bay. Can it use its build action, then use its IS jump? Can it use its IS jump, then use its build action? As in, is there a rigid action order?

Can a ship with an Engineering Bay go on constructing for turn after turn as long as it has the needed resources on board, or does it need to redock after each construction action?

Can a ship’s Engineering Bay use resources from another ship’s cargo bays? Example: two ships with 1 Engineering Bay and 4 cargo space each, trying to build a single structure whose raw materials require 6 total cargo space.
 
What sort of values range does the Boom/Bust entry have? The degree of variability in results for Growth are entertaining even without factoring it in. Say your prayers to the RNG, kids!

Presumably, if you complete a tech category's research on a given turn (ex: WEP5), you can immediately invest into the next level of the same category (ex: WEP6) in the same turn?

If you finish a technology (ex: CON2) in a given turn (ex: Turn 3 orders), can you build something associated with it in the same turn (ex: Factory)? I would guess you have to wait until the next turn.

On the Open Market, what happens if demand exceeds supply? Will it be allocated on a first-come, first-serve basis? Will the more lucrative deal win? Presumably even though it's an Open Market deals are still negotiated P2P, whether PC or NPC.

Do you have to build space infrastructure in (above) a planetary region or can you just build in the associated planetary space? Are there any benefits or drawbacks of doing one over the other (aside from Space Frame / Space Hab costs)?

Does anything change if, instead of using merchant ships, you use state ships to move resources around?
Presumably those are the costs of you getting someone else to ship for you. If you go all the way to the source with ships of your own, why would jumps be a cost factor?

P.S. projecting future growth with spreadsheets should not be this fun oh god I'm an accountant next I'll be playing EVE--
 
On the Open Market, what happens if demand exceeds supply? Will it be allocated on a first-come, first-serve basis? Will the more lucrative deal win? Presumably even though it's an Open Market deals are still negotiated P2P, whether PC or NPC.

P.S. projecting future growth with spreadsheets should not be this fun oh god I'm an accountant next I'll be playing EVE--

Hopefully some auction type deal could be used, where its going to go to the highest bidder. And then descends from there...

Haven't QUITE reached the projection stage of SysNes, but getting close, still a bunch of variables I need to think about.
 
Notice Refined Fission Rockets are 3 Mass / 3 Size just like unrefined; is the lack of a patch to 2 each an oversight, or off the table?

Yeah I forgot to do that for the release version.

I'm also going to publicly suggest the Ion Drive be set to 0 power instead of -1.

I'll think about it, if I do do that expect their cost to rise.

What sort of values range does the Boom/Bust entry have?

It'll be a surprise, most of the time it'll be 0 though.

Presumably, if you complete a tech category's research on a given turn (ex: WEP5), you can immediately invest into the next level of the same category (ex: WEP6) in the same turn?

Yes overflow automatically gets carried over.

If you finish a technology (ex: CON2) in a given turn (ex: Turn 3 orders), can you build something associated with it in the same turn (ex: Factory)? I would guess you have to wait until the next turn.

Nope you have to wait to the next turn (this is for later techs when the new stuff needs to be revealed.

On the Open Market, what happens if demand exceeds supply? Will it be allocated on a first-come, first-serve basis? Will the more lucrative deal win? Presumably even though it's an Open Market deals are still negotiated P2P, whether PC or NPC.

Well the deals won't be government2government on the open market. If demand exceeds supply orders will be fulfilled in order: i. whoever the seller has ascribed as most-favoured nation ii. whoever has allocated the biggest reserve of 'spare cash' to the transaction iii. the larger volume orders will be done first.

Do you have to build space infrastructure in (above) a planetary region or can you just build in the associated planetary space? Are there any benefits or drawbacks of doing one over the other (aside from Space Frame / Space Hab costs)?

Its always in a 'space' region where space habs get built, you cannot build them in ground regions. Space habs have the advantages of a) building bigger ships, b) sometimes more easily accessible energy and c) no worries about environmental stress.

Presumably those are the costs of you getting someone else to ship for you. If you go all the way to the source with ships of your own, why would jumps be a cost factor?

No that's the costs of using your own ships. The trade net has the advantage of being an abstraction that allows you to move goods all the way from A to B in one turn. The per jump cost is for transhipment at the intermediate systems.

When can we expect to see tech-trading costs/discounts?

50% discount to techs one level below the tech giver, 75% discount to techs two levels below, 50% discount to techs 3 levels below. These are additive rather than multiplicative with your base discount. Additional specialists teaching the same field has no function.

Does anything change if, instead of using merchant ships, you use state ships to move resources around?

Its slower, will have higher upkeeps, and more micromanagement, and I'll hate you deeply. Though its obviously what you do for constructions.

Also, you mention number of jumps. Trading resources via merchant routes is still limited by the one jump per turn rule, or no?

Nope its abstracted over the whole route. Pirates attacking any point of the route will intercept the goods though.

Yan starts with a Mining Complex in The Glades (405), even though there’s nothing to mine there.

The Habitat calculator will claim a production in areas that can’t produce a according to the Worlds page; that if-clause is missing.

Fixed.

Media centres reduce social stress in every single region that came earlier on the spreadsheet.

So? Thats what they do, reduce stress across your whole society, that why you can only build the one.

A total of 6 of Lipsid Beta’s financial trade segments are currently controlled, and the max is 5, no?

I count 4? And yes

Can you create multiple market shares in one turn?

Not of the same type, in the same system no.

You’ve mentioned ships are available for use the turn after they’re ordered. The same true of specialist teams?

Yes

Can the Designer’s (specialist) refined building ability be used from onboard a ship with an Engineering Bay? If so, can it be used to build the initial base for its refined cost?

Of course, though you get your own buildings at their refined cost anyway :p.

An IS-capable ship with an Engineering Bay. Can it use its build action, then use its IS jump? Can it use its IS jump, then use its build action? As in, is there a rigid action order?

Build then move. Which is why your 0 range IS builder is stupid. There is an action order, though phases overlap.

Can a ship with an Engineering Bay go on constructing for turn after turn as long as it has the needed resources on board, or does it need to redock after each construction action? Can a ship’s Engineering Bay use resources from another ship’s cargo bays? Example: two ships with 1 Engineering Bay and 4 cargo space each, trying to build a single structure whose raw materials require 6 total cargo space.

Yes, and of course. You can also just dump the resources in the region for an Engineering bay ship to come along to later.
 
Can someone point me to the rules on Engineering bays? Can't quite seem to find it. Thanks.

EDIT: Through the power of grayskull forum search I have found the post


post 311 said:
Well you start by building a planetary base or space frame, and spending the costs the environment mandates. There's no getting round the cost with exploitable micromanagement like in SysNES1.

You can build a base in four places:
A) A slot to the side of a populated planetary habitat you control.
B) The same orbital slot, or a planetary slot downward of a populated orbital habitat you control.
C) The same orbital slot, or a planetary slot downward of a fleet you control with an engineering bay and the needed resources in its holds.
D) The same planetary slot one of your armies occupies, if the resources needed have been dropped off.
This if you want to colonize an orbit or moons from a surface, you need to build a engineering tug on the planetary surface and have it lift off first.

Once a base has been built, you hope and pray some of your population moves there and it begins paying for itself. Once populated its part of your trade net and you can build buildings. Alternatively a fleet with an engineering bay or an engineer specialist could build buildings in an unpopulated base, though they won't produce any value till people move in (sometimes you will have to build stuff remotely like this in order to make the base palatable enough for people to want to move).

As the population grows you need to build Urbanisation, Suburbs and Arcologies to house planetary pop and Hab Modules and Arcologies to house orbital pop.

Unpopulated bases are not completely useless, as they can still refuel your ships and house armies, and commercial agent specialists can make it part of your trade net even if no one lives there.

To build a ship in space, you need an orbital habitat with a spaceport.
 
Does anyone else get an error upon opening up the most recent Economics sheet? It says something about not being able to update some links.

On the worlds sheet, what exactly are Base m,f,v,a vs Actual m,f,v,a? Are they the total amount of resources, or the max that can be gotten per turn, or something else?
 
Does anyone else get an error upon opening up the most recent Economics sheet? It says something about not being able to update some links.

On the worlds sheet, what exactly are Base m,f,v,a vs Actual m,f,v,a? Are they the total amount of resources, or the max that can be gotten per turn, or something else?

I dunno about that excel issue, what version are you using?

Base mfva is the production you'd expect from those combination of world traits, actual mfva is what is actually there and you need to send experts to determine (it could be much higher or lower than what you expect if there are mineral lodes or poor regions). Extraction buildings then produce resources based on the actual mfva values of the region they are present in.
 
I dunno about that excel issue, what version are you using?

Base mfva is the production you'd expect from those combination of world traits, actual mfva is what is actually there and you need to send experts to determine (it could be much higher or lower than what you expect if there are mineral lodes or poor regions). Extraction buildings then produce resources based on the actual mfva values of the region they are present in.


Which already seems to mean that expansion has to be something carefully thought out and mapped before you go build your expensive mining outpost on that empty rock. m seems to be the most variable of the lot.
 
I dunno how calculated a risk it is, but its a risk ;). Mineral content can be anything from zilch to bonanza.

Almost idiocy, thats how much of a stress I would put on it. The more sure results are also the expensive options (Gas giants/Hot Jovians etc). Compare SAH2 III to Glon III B (Blueside), an unproductive region is super productive and a decent region is poor. When you are spending 60-140e to build on some these regions you bring along a specialist. The only problem is that if you don't have access to one...
 
Nope you have to wait to the next turn (this is for later techs when the new stuff needs to be revealed.

So I'm assuming you can't commission a ship design that relies on that tech either then.
I can't find this with search; you can design a ship and build it in the same turn, correct?



So? Thats what they do, reduce stress across your whole society, that why you can only build the one.

Was pointing out that it doesn't work for the whole society, only regions that come earlier on the spreadsheet

I count 4?

2 for NPC_R, 2 for NPC_H, and 2 for Yup, my bad.

Of course, though you get your own buildings at their refined cost anyway :p.

Hm? What exactly do you mean.


Does anyone else get an error upon opening up the most recent Economics sheet? It says something about not being able to update some links.

Yeah, that happens; ignore that error, it won't do anything.
 
I am already enjoying the flexibility of the regions system.

For example, I now know that the Cssersians live in dome cities covering the craters of their airless moon. Fragile, fragile dome cities. :evil:

Threat duly noted.

Sysnes1 will not be repeated.
 
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