Preaching Atheism

Has anybody had a go round here defining what they mean by God? In anything more than Benevolent, Omnipotent Creator guy with a long white beard. A God incidentally remarkably like Father Christmas. Who used to bring me stuff once a year. He was around then. Where is he now?
 
The OP is a perfect example of how some Athiests alienate the religious and actually sabotage their own goals.
By fostering doubt? Really?
 
I beg to differ.
In fact (when it comes to most religions) there is always a conflict between faith and kindness and good will.
Thankfully, very few people interpret their religions in a very literal way.
I'm almost finished with "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. He does a great job of showing the great incompatibility between religion and morality.

If you can supply sample I will show you what I mean...

The conflict may arise of course but not between faith and goodwill as such. The problem lies in individuals poor/limited understanding of reality.
 
Has anybody had a go round here defining what they mean by God? In anything more than Benevolent, Omnipotent Creator guy with a long white beard. A God incidentally remarkably like Father Christmas. Who used to bring me stuff once a year. He was around then. Where is he now?

I suppose this is as good as any place to do so. However, this is the thread that believes there is no God, so it would be only right for an athiest to go first. It is true though that Jesus left this earth almost 2000 years ago, and it seems God has been silent since then.

Where is he now?

God is where He has always been. Every where. It just seems that He has chosen not to reveal Himself in the Flesh during this time period.
 
How do you know this?

@ Borachio quote: "He was around then." I have satsumas as proof.
 
timtofly said:
God is where He has always been. Every where.

As an atheist, my response to this is show me the evidence for gods. I don't care how you define it - but if you're going to make a positive existence statement for something you need to provide evidence.

What evidence is there that your conception of god is everywhere? In my wireless keyboard that I'm typing on right now? Was he installed at the Foxxcon factory? Did he creep in during shipping? If so, by what physical process? Not physical, you might say? Ok, then, how can there be evidence of something that's not physically detectable?

OOh! I can answer that last one, actually. Look at the evidence for dark matter - we know that something that interacts with normal luminous matter is ringing galaxies causing the stars (normal matter) within to move faster than they should. We haven't yet directly detected dark matter, but several theoretical possibilities have been ruled out. Leaving just a couple options, which are being investigated. If nothing turns up, and the experiments are shown to not have flaws, then they'll have to search in a different direction. Something is certainly out there, interacting through gravity, even though we can't see it.

Is that sort of what you might mean by God?

It's important to know, since even dark matter has a physical presence. There is evidence for it. It's observable. Unlike gods.
 
God is where He has always been. Every where. It just seems that He has chosen not to reveal Himself in the Flesh during this time period.

There has been at least two avatars(incarnation of God) since the departure of Christ: Sri Chaitanya and Sri Ramakrishna. I know two more but I will not mention them here...
 
There has been at least two avatars(incarnation of God) since the departure of Christ: Sri Chaitanya and Sri Ramakrishna. I know two more but I will not mention them here...

I have not heard of these people. Are they both men? I'm always intrigued by the fact that most of the people throughout history claiming to hear voices of gods in their heads are men. I wonder if women are simply more psychologically stable? :mischief:

What is it that these Sris claim that makes you suspect they are / were divine?
 
I have not heard of these people.
well you do now..:)
I'm always intrigued by the fact that most of the people throughout history claiming to hear voices of gods in their heads are men.
voices of gods and saying: I and my Father are one are not the same thing...
there has been quite a few females who heard voices (including Joan of Arc) and female saints/mystics/yogines
I wonder if women are simply more psychologically stable? :mischief:
woman has stronger attachment for earth and its consciousness

What is it that these Sris claim that makes you suspect they are / were divine?
there has been and are many more divine man, the degree of divinity and its manifestation is what makes some man stand appart...
 
As an atheist, my response to this is show me the evidence for gods. I don't care how you define it - but if you're going to make a positive existence statement for something you need to provide evidence.

What evidence is there that your conception of god is everywhere? In my wireless keyboard that I'm typing on right now? Was he installed at the Foxxcon factory? Did he creep in during shipping? If so, by what physical process? Not physical, you might say? Ok, then, how can there be evidence of something that's not physically detectable?

OOh! I can answer that last one, actually. Look at the evidence for dark matter - we know that something that interacts with normal luminous matter is ringing galaxies causing the stars (normal matter) within to move faster than they should. We haven't yet directly detected dark matter, but several theoretical possibilities have been ruled out. Leaving just a couple options, which are being investigated. If nothing turns up, and the experiments are shown to not have flaws, then they'll have to search in a different direction. Something is certainly out there, interacting through gravity, even though we can't see it.

Is that sort of what you might mean by God?

It's important to know, since even dark matter has a physical presence. There is evidence for it. It's observable. Unlike gods.

Is dark matter a human naming, or was dark matter known by that term from the beginning of time? Attempting to fix God into any mold is useless. Without God there would be nothing. So if you want to say that God is in your keyboard, you are free to do so. There are humans who have said that God was in hell and that there was no way to escape His presence. Saying that God is in a certain place, is no less believable that saying that He is everywhere. I state that God is everywhere, because that is what God stated. God is not a "something". God is. A something has a place and time. God does not.

Men in the past who have also declared in God, have witnessed things that cannot be explained by human experience. There was "something" for lack of a better term, out of the norm, that changed their lives and not always for the better. It is only by their record and certain experiences that have happened in my life, that enforces what they say and allows my knowledge to be strengthened.
 
Is dark matter a human naming, or was dark matter known by that term from the beginning of time? Attempting to fix God into any mold is useless. Without God there would be nothing. So if you want to say that God is in your keyboard, you are free to do so. There are humans who have said that God was in hell and that there was no way to escape His presence. Saying that God is in a certain place, is no less believable that saying that He is everywhere. I state that God is everywhere, because that is what God stated. God is not a "something". God is. A something has a place and time. God does not.

Men in the past who have also declared in God, have witnessed things that cannot be explained by human experience. There was "something" for lack of a better term, out of the norm, that changed their lives and not always for the better. It is only by their record and certain experiences that have happened in my life, that enforces what they say and allows my knowledge to be strengthened.

So... I am God?

I can grok it.
 
So... I am God?

I can grok it.

God is not a something. The Logos is a something. You may be a logos, but nothing can be God. God Is. Nothing is God. All things were created by Him, and He is in all things, but a thing, God is not.

BTW, God is I Am, not, I am God.
 
Is dark matter a human naming
100% human term.

A something has a place and time.
Indeed, and it's called college.
God does not.
Completely agree. God has no place in our society, nor do I have time for it.

Men in the past who have also declared in God, have witnessed things that cannot be explained by human experience. There was "something" for lack of a better term, out of the norm, that changed their lives and not always for the better.
Like the sun, the weather, and all other kinds of things that they couldn't explain.

Nowadays, science has caught up to all the defined Gods, so the only ones that survive are the vague, ambiguous Gods which are outside of space and time. These survive not because they are the one true Gods, they are as real as Thor or Zeus, they survive because they have no observable qualities.
 
Please define what you mean by the term "God". Is it your position that this is the only and correct definition?
 
God is not a something. The Logos is a something. You may be a logos, but nothing can be God. God Is. Nothing is God. All things were created by Him, and He is in all things, but a thing, God is not.

BTW, God is I Am, not, I am God.

Do you aspire to be some kind of crazy mystic?
 
timtofly said:
Is dark matter a human naming, or was dark matter known by that term from the beginning of time? Attempting to fix God into any mold is useless.

Dark matter is the term used by Astronomers that refers to whatever it is that's gravitationally accelerating stars in galaxies above and beyond the acceleration due to the visible matter. They thought it might be dust and gas, but ruled that out when prediction based on that idea weren't borne out. They thought it might be a weird type of subatomic particle - they've eliminated some possibilities, but don't have a firm answer yet. They also thought it might be lots of Jupiter-type stars, but there are problems with that theory too.

If you'd like to know more, Ethan Siegel writes an excellent blog. I've selected a primer on Dark Matter:
http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2009/10/what_is_dark_matter.php

Really, I can't recommend his blog enough. It's always fun and informative.

[sermon]
"Attempting to fix God into any mold is useless."
If you do fit it into a mold, science will surely break it. That's been happening for the last ~500 years. Time was, God made the wind blow. Now we know that's from differential heating of the earth's surface. Time was, Satan spread plagues. Now we know that disease is cause by micro-organisms. Time was, not all women were blessed by God with a fertile womb. Now we know about hormones and sperm counts and fibroids.

God only has one place left to hide - in a corner so remote and separate from the physical universe that there's no possible way for it to interact with anything inside the universe. What't the point of choosing to believe in a god like that? It does no specific harm, I suppose. But I hold people who think like this to be deluding themselves.

[/sermon]
 
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