Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
It may seem unintuitive, but it is an abstraction. Countries don't actually spend money the way EPs are spent in this game.
-Prethread- NCNESIOT: Blackened Skies
- Thread starter Nuka-sama
- Start date
The rules kinda say that rifle divisions are bought 2 at a time for 1ep before BC comes into play. So why not just follow the rules?
The recruits already own rifles. This is America.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
welp, time to surrender to U-S-A
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Yeah, not sure why I wrote that because I clearly intended their Base Cost to be 0.5.
Masada said:
That's my opinion. The other thing is that a situation where you'd want to mobilize 3 million people probably means money is no object. I can imagine someone trying to Munchkin it (as you suggested) by, like, spending all their reserves on rifles and all their EP on research projects to make rifles better (or something like that), but an important thing about policymaking in Blackened Skies is that policies and government actions have to be grounded in some in-game logic, and Neo-Congress putting forward a bill to hire 3,000,000 men and then disarm them while retaining their trucks, radios, and supplies isn't going to fly because it doesn't make any sense.
As I judge Rifles to be more of a support/flexible unit than the others, personally I would consider a 0 cost for Rifles a nice bonus but not a game-changer.
Crezth - is it possible to revise your rule that forces Italy to stay at war with Germany, France, and Turkey for at least 3 turns? I understand your thinking here, but 3 years just seems like unreasonably long. What if neither of the participants wants to fight anymore (while Italy objectively lacks the numbers to push us back)? Are we going to have a Phony War for 3 years before we can officially call it a day?
As a compromise, can the rule be "Italy has to stay at war for at least one year?" If they want, they may fight on after that, but if they don't, they can start peace talks.
As a compromise, can the rule be "Italy has to stay at war for at least one year?" If they want, they may fight on after that, but if they don't, they can start peace talks.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
I think we should go away with this rule in first place. Three or two turns are way too much for a game like this, and one turn is just pointless. Isn't this game all about...freedom? Mostly?
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Amusingly, the only reason the rule has been implemented is because we want Italy to stay at war, and we're being straight-up about this because we don't want to insult anyone's intelligence by pretending we aren't railroading here.
Let's step out of character for a moment and review the facts: the German Union is a largely unrecognized political entity that is credibly responsible for undermining and subsequently occupying Austria that now appears to be in cahoots with the Russian Empire, whose list of offenses grows yearly. The events in Serbia now also suggest some cooperation with Turkey, who ditto ditto Russia. Even though these facts suggest overwhelming odds, they also suggest a pitiless coalition of aggressive expanders whose presence internationally cannot be easily tolerated. Hence we consider Italy's policy of desperate struggle* to be in-character considering anything short of status quo-antebellum to be promulgating an unsustainable state of affairs.
It is my position that "traditional" politicians, to a large extent, rely on a certain international equilibrium, because that equilibrium offers the greatest flexibility for policy-makers; this equilibrium is maintained by everyone playing by the same rules. Invading and annexing countries willy-nilly is severely damaging to this equilibrium and, hence, severely threatening to the political establishment of countries that desire that equilibrium.
Italy is one such country, being, actually, perhaps, the only remaining country in Europe that cleaves to ideals such as liberty, democracy, and freedom**. Considering now the forces arrayed against them, we view this as a "do or die" situation for Italy.
*So even if the war wasn't close, Italy would still fight; which brings me to my second point. Italy's (pitiful) allies may have been defeated, but they are still very much in the fight, and they have many punches to throw before they go down.
**Except for babby countries like the Netherlands or Switzerland, but the Netherlands just likes building dams and the Swiss just like calculating interest and managing funds that have been totally hedg'd-out.
I hope that helps clear up why we don't believe Italy should be negotiating their surrender. They may be open to peace but we think they should assert very forcefully the terms thereof, not accept clemency from a
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
This is a one-case basis, then. I believe you should have PMed Tobi and made it clear that he would be in for a long war.
I don't see why this should apply to every single player.
I don't see why this should apply to every single player.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
We have decided to make our policy exception-based to this new rule because of the importance of maintaining consistency. So even if it was one case that triggered the new policy, it still applies generally.
If you have a really compelling case for why you should seek peace, we will hear it. But the point is that the NPCs didn't engage in these wars for trivial reasons and we want players to appreciate that fact and play in-character.
If you have a really compelling case for why you should seek peace, we will hear it. But the point is that the NPCs didn't engage in these wars for trivial reasons and we want players to appreciate that fact and play in-character.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Hopefully, this means that the Treaty of Sucre is totes legit right
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
The Treaty of Sucre was grandfathered in under the old rule, AFAIK. I'll let nuke contradict me on that if he wishes. Although I do think that it's another case of throwing in the towel before breaking a sweat.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Aw yeah peace of our time hype
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Unfortunately, this is one of the fights I didn't really pick up on my desire, save for taking up Argentina. Would it be so hard for factions within Argentina to realise that peace is the only way not to be utterly wrecked by an US-funded Bolivia as the USA blockades the everloving hell out of us, after a failed attempt at seizing the most well-defended fortress in the world after using gas on people with gas masks who also have nerve gas and American tanks?
It seems fairly simple that ending the war would be the best way to continue existence without half of the countryside being burnt to hell.
It seems fairly simple that ending the war would be the best way to continue existence without half of the countryside being burnt to hell.
The thing is that Argentina and Chile have, for a century, lost territory and have been humiliated by the Bolivians. This war in a lot of ways was about Argentina rediscovering it's lost pride, and for 2 of the past 3 years, Argentina was winning. Even now, Argentina has barely sustained any casualties. And even if the US supported one side, the UK could easily support Argentina. This was a hope to purge the continent of evil Bolivia, and now they're back to square one.
Sure, there are some people who do appreciate peace, but Bolivians have not set foot on Argentinian territory. As a referenew of what many, particularly in the Imperial faction, but in the dems too, is the "Stab in the Back" legend of post WW 1 Germany
Sure, there are some people who do appreciate peace, but Bolivians have not set foot on Argentinian territory. As a referenew of what many, particularly in the Imperial faction, but in the dems too, is the "Stab in the Back" legend of post WW 1 Germany
To be honest, Bolivian army mostly consists of Trencher infantry, and their stability is one of the lowest among the nations not torn by civil war. Plus, you could get your own great power "patron." But it doesn't matter now, I guess.
Crezth, Nuke - ok, I see your point. Although we didn't consciously plan that the situation Europe develops the way it did, I could see why in the eyes of Italy it looks like barbarians are at their gates now. Probably, they've got their own version of Winston Churchill for a prime-minister in this timeline.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
I would've lost. And it seems the UK doesn't care that much about me. So, well, I had to peace out before they step on Argentine land.
Yes. And nerve gas. And American tanks. And American soldiers, eventually. Plus, I'm not believing that Bolivia would collapse once they went on the offensive.
You're right, it doesn't matter now.
Yes. And nerve gas. And American tanks. And American soldiers, eventually. Plus, I'm not believing that Bolivia would collapse once they went on the offensive.
You're right, it doesn't matter now.
Zappericus
Euro scumbag
To be fair, I feel Bolivias current state is entirely my fault. I sent my orders first now, and that had obvious consequences as the GMs were forced to play mye nation for me. I just pretend the emperor was busy living the good life in the palace.
Tbh though, I'm fairly tired of warring. Not because I don't want to, but because my army is small and exhausted, my industry is insignificant and I am literally millimeters from erupting into civil war.
I wish I could've been the imperialist tyrant of south-america you all wish for me to be, but alas, my stats are against me.
Nerve gas is nice war deter and infantry blob waster tho ;^))))
Tbh though, I'm fairly tired of warring. Not because I don't want to, but because my army is small and exhausted, my industry is insignificant and I am literally millimeters from erupting into civil war.
I wish I could've been the imperialist tyrant of south-america you all wish for me to be, but alas, my stats are against me.
Nerve gas is nice war deter and infantry blob waster tho ;^))))
