Prince. What a difference!

[Arnesson]

Like most Civfanatics, I started at Warlord level in order to get my head wrapped around the changes to the game from Civ III. Didn't seem to be all that difficult. A lot of familiar faces amongst the leaders, some old friends (like the War Walker) gone but still lots of diversification in units.

Employing my tactics from CIV III, I had worked my way up to Noble, and was winning the majority of my games, one way or another (I normally turn off Space Race, so most games end up ending on the time constraint, although I did manage several Diplomatic and Cultural wins).

Emboldened by my siccess, I moved up to Prince. Wow! This level is several orders of magnitude tougher than Noble. Even with barbarians turned off, I have yet to avoid having my head handed to me on a platter, regardless of what leader I select, how many opponents I elect to include, or what map type and size I opt to use. Apparently I required some serious strategic amendments to my playing style if I am to deal with this level successfully.

Generally I send my warrior/scout out in search of villages, hoping to pick up cash and maybe even a free tech. I schedule the recruitment of two workers around researching Bronze Working so that I can get them chopping to fast-track subsequent growth and research (priorities are hunting, agriculture, pottery and archery). By that time, hopefully, I have found a suitable site for my next city and can recruit a settler. The next priority is usually Animal Husbandry so that, if horses are not already within reach, my next settler will grab an adjacent tile. If I don't already have one, my fourth city will be coastal, hopefully at a river mouth. I seldom build more than four cities before BC changes to AD. All flood plain tiles are cottages. Normally I build on a 2-1 ratio of cottages to farms. I do try to pick up one of the later religions, more often than not Christianity as the result of having grabbed the Parthenon and receiving a Great Prophet. Troop buildup seldom takes place until my fourth city has been constructed.

THIS DOES NOT WORK AT PRINCE LEVEL! Nor does any other strategy that I have been able to steal from the Forum threads. Wonders vanish at an alarming rate. Once I get Alphabet, I find that the AI Civs are so far ahead that I am doomed to be a third world nation. And my archers, spearmen and horse archers are being massacred by macemen and knights.

HELP!

 

[InvisibleStalke]

There doesn't sound anything horrible about your strategy, but it does sound unfocussed. The key to higher levels is focussing on just what you really need and leveraging your strengths. You shouldn't have a single strategy because you want to optimize each leader differently.

Some thoughts:
- Why two workers? I would let your city grow a bit before building a second worker. Chopping isn't as strong as it used to be.
- You are researching all of the worker techs - why? Why not just concentrate on the one or two techs you need to get your capital's special tiles going. You don't need or want to research every tech - you can go to Alphabet and backfill by trading or research them very cheaply later.
- Bronzeworking is for slavery - chopping is just a bonus. Are you using the whip to build your workers and settlers?
- Why build farms in a 1-2 ratio with cottages? You want to build farms only if you need them to grow quickly - one or two farms should do a city if you are planning on cottaging it - you don't need more.
- If you want to get a wonder you don't have time to amble around the tech tree. Get the key worker techs for your capital, bronzeworking and then go straight for the techs for the wonder. Then commit to working every production tile you can to get it out ASAP - its a race!

But really you want to focus on what each leader does best.

Financial - prioritize pottery and build early cottages. Otherwise don't - working your specials and getting your cities out is a bigger priority.

Aggressive - find bronze and whip axes. Let the AIs build you your cities.

Spiritual - consider going for hinduism and starting a religion. Go for techs that enable civics.

Philo - build lots of farms. Run specialists. Lightbulb to the high level techs.

Creative - grab widely spaced cities and seal off an area you can backfill to get the most land and cities.

Imperialistic - rush out a few settlers then go to war.

Expansive - rush out your workers, beeline pottery and get those cheap granaries for strong whip and chop production. Prioritize monarchy for big healthy cities.

Etc.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Hint - I think part of the problem is the statement "once I reach Alphabet". On prince you should be first to Alphabet. Always. In fact on Monarch and Emperor you can usually be first to Alphabet. The sooner you get to Alphabet the more you will be able to trade with the AIs before they can trade with themselves.

Alphabet should probably be the first expensive tech you research - before COL, Monarchy, Mathematics or Iron Working. Just prioritizing Alphabet will do a lot for your Prince game.

 

[Sjaramei]

Skip archery

Get animal husbandry for chariots to defend from barbs or Bronze working for axes instead. Hunting isn't very important either unless you got some furs/deer etc worth improving.

And if you fall behind build a decent stack of army to take the lead back.

(Economy is important so get Code of Laws/Currency somewhat fast)

And consider running 2 scientists in a city for some Great Scientists instead of just Prophets, Academy and Lightbulbinh Philosophy helps a lot. (I always get at least 2 scientists in my games)

Hint - I think part of the problem is the statement "once I reach Alphabet". On prince you should be first to Alphabet. Always. In fact on Monarch and Emperor you can usually be first to Alphabet. The sooner you get to Alphabet the more you will be able to trade with the AIs before they can trade with themselves.

Alphabet should probably be the first expensive tech you research - before COL, Monarchy, Mathematics or Iron Working. Just prioritizing Alphabet will do a lot for your Prince game.

You usually don't need Alphabet that quick, AI doesn't prioritize it very much at start. I get CoL before alphabet most of the time. (Monarchy/Mathematics i get with trading CoL or a later tech, dunno how well it will work at prince long time since i played that)

 

[mudphud]

Just a thought on techs and religion. A strategy that I often use (although it is certainly not unique to me) is to build the oracle and use it to get CoL and found Confucianism. Obviously not every game - sometimes I want metal castings. However, nearly every game I at least consider trying to build the oracle although obviously some games I try and miss and others I don't try for it at all. Are you using your prophet to lightbulb monotheism? To me that seems like a bit of a waste especially if you can get CoL to found a different religion and use the prophet for the shrine.

Biggest downside is that sometimes by the time you get Confucianism other religions are dominating but it depends on who your neighbors are. On my current fractal map I am with 3 other civs and we were all pagan until I got CoL.

 

[aronnax]

I always build the stonehenge first since I dont really like churning out a 1000 warriors while waiting for things to build, this usually leads to many great prophets. Anyway somehow, using them i will either find theology first sometime near 1ad which gives me a head start on some wonders before other civs

 

[Steppin' Razor]

It sounds like you may want to focus more of the specific advantages of a leader, map, and available resources instead of trying the same strategic approach every time because it was working for you at Warlord level. Take a look at the first 8 All Leader Challenge games since they were all played at the Prince difficulty level and show a great deal of discussion about what strategy is appropriate in the situations that arise and why. Links are available here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=5320091

 

[Bluetooth]

As InvisibleStalke said: try to focus on what each leader does best. That’s the key for success. Try to analyse what you can do to strengthen your leaders different traits.

As an example, if you have a leader with the philosophical trait (+ 100% GP birth rate) one of your goals should be to get as many Great People (mostly Great Scientists) as possible.

Preferably you also run a specialist based economy, so try to assign as many specialists in your cities as you can. Forget about cottages and focus on building farms and assigning scientists in your cities for research purpose. Later on you can build cottages in your Capital so you can take advantage of the Bureaucracy civics.

With this type of economy Writing is very important. Try to research it ASP. Once you have built three or four Libraries and assigned two scientists in the cities you can set the science slider to 0 and rely only on your specialists for research. This way you can also afford to build more cities.

Buildings: Concentrate on science buildings: Library, University, Academies and so on.

Civics: Pacifism: +100% GP birth rate. Representation: +3 Science per specialist. Mercantilism: +1 Free specialist per city. Caste System: Unlimited Artist, Scientist, and Merchant in cities.

Wonders of the World: The Great Library: + 2 free scientists. The Parthenon: +50% GP birth rate in all cities. The Pyramids -Enables all government civics - this is for the Representation civics. The Statue of Liberty +1 free specialist in all cities on this continent.

I believe you can make an analyse like this for every trait to get the most from it.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Build fast and focus on expanding to your 3rd/4th cities very quickly (whether by settling or conquering .. your choice).

The starting build order is critical. I usually do Worker, Warrior, Warrior (let grow to pop 3), Settler. If you do this right, then by the time you're building a Settler, you'll be working 3 premium tiles and pushing out Settlers in 9 turns and Workers in 5.

Chopping isn't as strong as it used to be, so think of it as a bonus to your strategy .. I don't recommend focusing your strategy on chopping.

Build order after that is going to depend on all the other factors in the game.

Whatever you do, ensure you have Pottery, Writing or a huge bankroll before you build that 4th city. Otherwise, your will go down the toilet FAST!

You don't need every starting tech ... at least not yet. You basically only need 4 techs: , , and (combat). In almost every case, you can get one of each and move on. (i.e. Agriculture/Fishing, Mining/AH, Pottery/Writing, BW/Wheel)

If you're relying on mounted units (like Chariots), you need BW to figure out where the copper is. That way you know who not to attack and where to pillage if you do.

When you wage war, don't focus too much on conquering ... focus on winning. This usually means capturing/razing a few cities, pillaging all to hell, suing for peace, regrouping and starting the process over.

Long wars are losing wars.


-- my 2

 

[jackdog]

Has been mentioned in passing but just to emphasise it.

very early on you can build an axman stack, perhaps instead of a settler and worker and go get a city or two. you grow as you are not building settlers workers and they shrink, bargain, you can often steal a worker or two also. Don't be too afraid early war will last and you will never get started the AI's often want peace quickly if you have one of their 2 or 3 cities, wouldn't you.

This early war can be when you only have three cities and before you even have archery sometimes.

don't pretend to be an expert as I am just got past prince which I can beat reliably and having a torrid time of it so far, won;t be long before a win though.

 

[Mango]

Skip archery

Truer words have never been spoken.

Let's analyze this, shall we?

Archery is good for 1 thing: defending cities. Archers aren't great attackers, having just 3 strength, and they get their bonuses from defending. This is great if the AI is attacking your cities, but how often does this really happen?

In the early game you have to worry mostly about barbs. Barbs do not attack your city! They prioritize pillaging to a ridiculous extent. Don't believe me? Let a barb walk up to your city and move all of the units out. They will pillage whatever tile they are standing on instead of attacking an undefended city. I've had it happen to me twice in a game (though admitingly, the second time I did it on purpose because I knew he wouldn't attack). So the question becomes "Why do I even need archers if nobody is attacking me cities?" Exactly!

Avoid hunting and archery. You're going to want to get axemen and chariots to defend your cities from barbs, because defending from barbs is all about attacking barbs before they get to something they can pillage. Axemen eat barb warriors, archers and swordsmen for breakfast. Chariots eat barb warriors and axemen for lunch. Chariots will also let you wheel around your territory a lot faster in case a barb sneaks up on you. Both are infinitely better defenders against barbs.

Now let's analyze which is better against AIs. Wait, we don't have to because the AI never declares war on you in the early game unless you're stupid. And even then, the AI likes to pillage just as much as the barbs do, so you're going to want to have chariots and axemen to stop them, not archers.

Archery is a must at higher levels and in multiplayer, but Prince level single player?

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Oh yeah ... not every game is the same, but here are a couple of the milestones I keep in mind when determining how my Prince/Normal speed game is progressing:

• 2000 BC. At least two cities, hopefully three -- one of which has great production and will build nothing but military units.
• 1 AD. Your closest neighbor is dead. In certain situations, try to have both of your neighbors dead. This should give you enough elbow room to stop and build or continue trouncing your enemies. You should also have Currency or CoL by now.
• 1000 AD +/- 200 yrs. Be the first to Liberalism. This is easier than you think.

I think if you can meet those goals, you're well on your way to winning any Prince game.

 

[Harbourboy]

There is no one guaranteed strategy. You need to tailor things to your leader, your opponents, and the lay of the land. That is the beauty of this game for me.

But I agree with the general theme here which is to FOCUS. Focus on something and do what is needed to get it, rather than trying a lot of things at once.

 

[Mango]

I think another thing to mention is a lot of people do not specialize their cities in lower levels. You must do this to win at higher levels.

You need to have ONE city that is a science mecca, and that city needs an academy, library, university, observatory and Oxford (+225% research).

You need to have ONE city that is a military production mecca, and that city needs barracks, stables, The Heroic Epic, West Point, a Military Academy and hopefully 1 Great General (+150% production for military units and +9 experience per turn, which you can bump up to +11 with Theocracy or Vassalage).

You need ONE city to be your Great Person farm so you can lightbulb techs early in the game. I like to use my first captured enemy capital for this if they are on the coast, because usually they will have 3 or more food resources and rivers for farms. You will want to build buildings that let you run specialists, namely scientists. If you are spiritual you might even consider flipping over to Caste System when you're not using the whip so that you can run as many scientists as you'd like. I like building the Great Library in this city, so leave the forests until you get Literature and then chop them down. You can whip your observatory later.

If you manage to found a religion in a city with good cottage potential then you should make it your commerce city. This is entirely optional, but it helps a lot. Cottage every available tile and get your population high enough to work them. Then just set it to maximize gold production and start building missionaries. You'll want to build a monastary of the religion you founded in it and any building that increases gold, which would be banks, markets, grocers and Wall Street. The idea is getting 200% gold so that every missionary you send out nets you 3 gold per turn instead of 1. Now you can run your science meter higher, which becomes a problem late in the game at high levels.

 

[tycoonist]

if you really want that prince level win (as i did at first) just play as julius. he is king of killing people: forge a large empire quickly and then cottage like crazy to get your economy back on track. Using praets is very cheap, but it was what i did to get my first win and i am now comfortable at that level.

 

[jackdog]

would have to agree with the julius thing. its a gambit about getting access to iron earlyish but if you do shurn out those cheap preats and off you go. Still not a bad starting gambit on a higher level I would imagine.

 

[Mango]

Yeah the thing about Praets is they're Swordsmen who are better than Macemen. In other words they work great against Archers AND Longbows, which means you can use the same army for pretty much the entire game (since you're Roman, your games shouldn't last long enough to get much further than gunpowder).

And the organized helps you deal with the cost of expansion.

 

[DNK]

Warring seems to become more necessary as the game gets tougher.

My biggest problem seems to be not dying before the ADs, as I tend to be a little too aggressive at the start. Hey, I just destroyed Victoria! Oh, look, it's Caesar. Well, no reason to stop killing. Oh, what are these legionary things? Oh crap, there goes my empire...

Something I have found very useful is better teching, as has been mentioned. I try not to stick around in any age for too long, and generally beelining through 4-5 techs for significant periods, backfilling as necessary. It's enticing to have a full set, so you can work and build everything, but the real trick is economy. Specialization doesn't stop at the city level...

Pick your tech paths wisely. Alphabet is usually an early beeline, although I spend a bit more time by grabbing priesthood for the oracle beforehand, which comes after BW always. Still, I know what I need and aim for with extreme focus, only sidelining for other high-value opportunities (like priesthood/oracle).

 

[Rancid Sushi]

Yeah the thing about Praets is they're Swordsmen who are better than Macemen. In other words they work great against Archers AND Longbows, which means you can use the same army for pretty much the entire game (since you're Roman, your games shouldn't last long enough to get much further than gunpowder).

And the organized helps you deal with the cost of expansion.

How are Praetorians better than Macemen? Praets don't get the the +50% vs. melee. If anything, Praets become obsolete when your rivals have macemen.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Because the AI tend to have archers defending cities and they aren't melee, I guess...