Privacy and Piracy

Mise

isle of lucy
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A lot of people say that if we put things on the internet, we relinquish all rights to privacy regarding those things. So, for example, if I put photos on Facebook of me throwing up at a party, and a potential employer somehow* accesses it, it would be perfectly legal and right for him to do this, and for him to prejudice any employment decisions about me based on the picture.

However, it tends to be these same people who argue that, if you put an MP3 on the internet, and someone somehow accesses it and uses it for his own purposes, that the originator of the MP3 has every right to demand that the MP3 be returned, and that compensation be paid.

It seems to me that while these may not technically (that is, in the strictest logical sense) be contradictory opinions to hold, they are certainly contradictory in spirit. Someone who, in spirit, believes that the originator of an image or piece of music has a right to decide how and by whom it is used should both be in favour of greater privacy rights on Facebook and in greater copyright protection for large music corporations. Conversely, someone who, in spirit, believes that if you put an image or piece of music on the internet (that is, they believe that putting something on the internet is to display it in public, akin to posting the image on the side of a bus or playing a concert in a public park) you lose all rights over it and it becomes something of a free-for-all, and thus ought to oppose privacy rights on Facebook and anti-piracy laws and copyrights for things put on the internet.

Whaddya think? Perhaps you'll argue that individuals have a greater right to privacy than large corporations? Or perhaps you think that privacy and piracy are simply two different things and no similarities or analogies or comparisons are valid? Perhaps you just always side with corporations, or perhaps you always side against them?

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*-see spoiler.
Spoiler :
Perhaps you've actually blocked anyone who's not your friend, or a friend of a friend (so that friends of friends can see pictures of said friend), from viewing the picture -- but perhaps your future employer adds one of your friends as a friend (afterall, some people have 500+ friends, so it's not unlikely). Or perhaps the employer does something legal but dishonest in order to gain access to your facebook pictures, by pretending to be a celebrity or old friend, and adding you that way. Or maybe a friend of yours has posted the picture on his blog, and your employer finds it from there. Who knows what this "somehow" is -- fact is, in spite of your best efforts, he's figured out a way of digging your dirt.
 
always against corporations. i don't want anyone judging me by the stuff on my facebook, or by my internet history, or anything else that i do online.
 
Music, videos, etc. are protected by Copyright laws.

Are you photos protected by copyright?

Not to mention the compnay isn't redistributing your product that you receive money for for free and therefore you're losing monetary gain from it. You're comparing apples and oranges.
 
Music, videos, etc. are protected by Copyright laws.

Are you photos protected by copyright?

*facepalm*

Of course they are.

Not to mention the compnay isn't redistributing your product that you receive money for for free and therefore you're losing monetary gain from it. You're comparing apples and oranges.

The losing monetary gain is a non-argument. If I offer my products cheaper than the guy next door, he is losing monetary gain. The whole concept of a free market relies on making someone losing monetary gain if his offers are overpriced.

The comparison is valid, however the premise is false. Noone releasing an MP3 on the internet can demand anyone deleting it or stop listening to it. He can stop other people redistributing it and that's all what copyright is about.

It's the same with photos I release on the internet. I cannot stop anyone looking at it, or taking conclusions about me. I can, however, stop someone else distributing my photos.

Piracy is all about distributing content I don't have the rights for. If I have already released that content somewhere, then there is no privacy aspect to it, as it's already in the open.
 
An employer making a decision based on publically available informationin no way diminishes the centuries-long recognition of copyright as an enforceable property right. You could copyright the photo and it can still be used in the employment decision-making process without it taking away your legal option to sue infringers who violate your right to control distribution.
 
What JR said.

Hypothetical employer isn't printing the picture and selling it or distributing it, he is looking at it. Also if someone else took the picture of you, they'd be the ones holding the copyright to the picture anyway.

As far as the spirit of things go, I think you can be opposed to draconian copyright restrictions while also in favor of reasonable privacy protection. I don't think they're entirely related.
 
Many corporations pay people for doing absolutely nothing.

And yes, every photo ever taken has some status regarding copyright, even if that status is public domain/royalty-free. Note that royalty-free and public domain are not the same thing.
 
Many corporations pay people for doing absolutely nothing.

You mean about 0.001% of people maybe?

As a matter of fact, I don't get paid for doing something, as do many people.
 
A lot of people say that if we put things on the internet, we relinquish all rights to privacy regarding those things. So, for example, if I put photos on Facebook of me throwing up at a party, and a potential employer somehow* accesses it, it would be perfectly legal and right for him to do this, and for him to prejudice any employment decisions about me based on the picture.
I see nothing wrong about this. :dunno:

*-see spoiler.
Spoiler :
Perhaps you've actually blocked anyone who's not your friend, or a friend of a friend (so that friends of friends can see pictures of said friend), from viewing the picture -- but perhaps your future employer adds one of your friends as a friend (afterall, some people have 500+ friends, so it's not unlikely). Or perhaps the employer does something legal but dishonest in order to gain access to your facebook pictures, by pretending to be a celebrity or old friend, and adding you that way. Or maybe a friend of yours has posted the picture on his blog, and your employer finds it from there. Who knows what this "somehow" is -- fact is, in spite of your best efforts, he's figured out a way of digging your dirt.

You probably wouldn't want to be working for a company that would be willing to go THAT far..
 
They may be contradictory in spirit, but I don't think those positions are always necessarily philosophically thought out. Rather, it's simple selfishness: I should be able to do whatever I want with my pictures, but I should also be able to do whatever I want with someone else's stuff.
 
An employer making a decision based on publically available informationin no way diminishes the centuries-long recognition of copyright as an enforceable property right. You could copyright the photo and it can still be used in the employment decision-making process without it taking away your legal option to sue infringers who violate your right to control distribution.
The point is, if the internet is "in public" for the purposes of privacy, it should be "in public" for the purposes of piracy. If I put up a poster on the side of a bus shelter with my face on it, that billboard is "in public", and so if someone looks at it, they're not obliged to pay me for the privilege. If I play a concert in the park, and someone standing around in the park (but outside the designated listening area) hears and/or sees the performance, they're not obliged to pay me for it. And since the internet is a public place, like a park or bus shelter, the same principle should apply there, too.
 
The point is, if the internet is "in public" for the purposes of privacy, it should be "in public" for the purposes of piracy. If I put up a poster on the side of a bus shelter with my face on it, that billboard is "in public", and so if someone looks at it, they're not obliged to pay me for the privilege.
But you still hold the copyright on the poster and can control further distribution.

If I play a concert in the park, and someone standing around in the park (but outside the designated listening area) hears and/or sees the performance, they're not obliged to pay me for it. And since the internet is a public place, like a park or bus shelter, the same principle should apply there, too.
Yet you can still forbid recording or filming of the concert and shut down distribution of such unauthorized filming and recordings.
 
That's the current legal status, and that's what I'm questioning. "Public" seems to have different legal implications to what most of us expect from a "public" performance or a "public" display. The legal status of what goes on in "public" is quite contrary to the implicit or explicit desires of we mere mortals subject to those laws, and that seems something that needs to be rectified.

To reiterate what I expect from a "public" display: if a public image of me on a billboard can be photographed and used to prejudice future employment decisions, then surely a public performance in a public park can be recorded and used for my future enjoyment. This is the spirit of which I referred in the OP, and it's what I think most people find so baffling about copyright laws -- they don't make any sense.
 
Copyright makes perfect sense from a property rights perspective. What an employer can find out about you based on publically available information makes perfect sense from a hiring decision perspective.

If a prospective employer finds out you made a major blunder in a copyrighted book related to the field they are considering hiring you for, does that take away the book's copyright? Should the propspective employer ignore the blunder because of the copyright?
 
Copyright makes perfect sense from a property rights perspective. What an employer can find out about you based on publically available information makes perfect sense from a hiring decision perspective.
Yes, the law always sides with large corporations. To me, the spirit of the law should reflect the fact that the work is being displayed or performed in public; however, the spirit of the law always seems to reflect the will of large corporations. Whether that be in contractual obligations towards payment of bonuses and pensions to the sacked execs of bailed out companies, or towards the hiring and firing by trigger-happy HR executives based on comments intended to be seen only by close friends and family on the internet, the law always seems to take the side of the big guy, when it should be protecting the little guy.
 
Yes, the law always sides with large corporations. To me, the spirit of the law should reflect the fact that the work is being displayed or performed in public; however, the spirit of the law always seems to reflect the will of large corporations.

While on the one hand I agree that certain things, such as the DMCA, go too far in some respects in the name of "copy protection" I don't think arguing for more things to be considered "public" would really be helping anyone. Copyright protects everyone, big and small. If you want a bad guy blame IP lawyers charging $1000/hr.

What alternative system do you have in mind that still offers the opportunity for a significant monetary reward and an incentive to innovate?
 
The point is, if the internet is "in public" for the purposes of privacy, it should be "in public" for the purposes of piracy.

:yup: See, your disagreement with JR stems from the fact that you possess a moral compass, whereas he is a lawyer :mischief:
 
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