Proper respect to the ESLers on the site

[kochman]

I just wanted to say, the level of English from participants at this site, no matter what their political, etc opinions, blows my mind. Most of you who post regularly seem to grasp 99% of the nuances we throw around in English, and write it better than many native speakers (at least in my country...).

I wonder then, of those of you who post so well in English, how many of you are so confident with your spoken English?
When I lived in Germany, it often took new Germans that I met (friends of my ex girlfriend) a couple of beers to loosen up and then they were fine...

How long have you studied English?

I know countries like Holland, Sweden, etc (languages that don't dub over the English language) seem to have an advantage. In my time in Holland, I met one person who didn't speak English, and he seemed to be doing it out of spite.

 

[Kyriakos]

It should be said that most native english speakers are way too lazy with the language, although obviously to make up for that the upper taxis of linguists will always be out of reach by the foreign speakers.

I know that i used to speak a lot better english, until i lived in England. There the level of the language was poor most of the time. Surely in the university it was ok, but in life outside of it nothing of note was spoken in the circles i had (little) to do with.

 

[Crezth]

I ain't even know what you is talking about in.

 

[The_J]

When I lived in Germany, it often took new Germans that I met (friends of my ex girlfriend) a couple of beers to loosen up and then they were fine...

The problem is that it feels awkward to speak a foreign language in your home country, especially when other native speakers are around. After you got over that point, it's normally fine.
Another point is that people might feel insecure, especially if they are not prepared to hear english. Because then you don't understand it at the first time (since your ears are still adjusted to your native language), which then makes you doubt your abilities in the foreign language.

I know that myself a bit. My master courses were held in English, and we were a small group, in wich 50% didn't speak german (so talking English in my free time was a must). At the beginning you don't feel "brave" enough to start a conversation, and some things just don't translate well in some situations (situational jokes, e.g.). If then other native speakers are around, you just choose not to talk english, and sometimes you switch back from english into your native language.
But at the end, that was quite fine. After having some talks with our foreign students (had to work with them due to practical courses; hell, the first one was so damn complicated due to that), that gets smoother, and then small talk is not a problem anymore. And personally I found small talk to be a very special problem: Should I really start my brain for talking about negligible things in a possibly such awkward situation...er...no...maybe rather not.

...er....yes, that's it.
And it also explains why the beer helped in your case, you then don't care about such uncomfortible things .

 

[Tee Kay]

Why thank you.

I wonder then, of those of you who post so well in English, how many of you are so confident with your spoken English?

I'm not confident with spoken English at all. I find it very difficult to carry a conversation, though this probably has more to do with my extreme introvertedness than anything else.

When I lived in Germany, it often took new Germans that I met (friends of my ex girlfriend) a couple of beers to loosen up and then they were fine...

I've noticed (and had people comment) that I do speak better when drunk.

How long have you studied English?

About ten years, so roughly about half my life.

 

[Narz]

I, too, am impressed by the proficiency of ESLers here.

Perhaps someday I'll learn a 2nd language as well as most of you seem to know English, unlikely but would be nice.

 

[Quintillus]

Why thank you.

...

About ten years, so roughly about half my life.

You aren't a native English speaker? I'd always thought you were from Australia, with both the location and username seeming to indicate that.

In light of my experience in Sweden (and to a much lesser extent, the Netherlands), I'm not actually that surprised that the Swedish and Dutch CFC members write very good English. While occasionally the Swedes would comment that the Americans and Australians were talking quickly with each other, by and large I didn't have to think about what I said - they always understood it. I was impressed that the Swedes spoke English so well - I think a higher percentage of Swedes than Americans speak fluent English - and am impressed that that proficiency extends to other countries with fewer English speakers at CFC.

I am somewhat curious how self-selecting this is. While I could have at one point posted on Internet forums reasonably proficiently in French, I don't think I ever did, primarily due to lack of confidence that my French was sufficient.

 

[Tee Kay]

You aren't a native English speaker? I'd always thought you were from Australia, with both the location and username seeming to indicate that.

My first language was Thai.

I am somewhat curious how self-selecting this is. While I could have at one point posted on Internet forums reasonably proficiently in French, I don't think I ever did, primarily due to lack of confidence that my French was sufficient.

I was in the same situation (though in my case the languages were German and Mandarin). A great way to build confidence is to immerse yourself in a foreign environment; it will force you to use the language and rewire your brain to think differently. In my case, I actually had a few Mandarin-speaking friends, but they were also fluent English speakers, so I never needed to converse in Mandarin. I could've tried anyway, but I didn't due to a combination of low self-esteem and laziness.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm pretty rotten at spoken English except when I'm drunk

 

[Camikaze]

One of the guys I work with is an international student who has only been in Australia for a couple of months. He's really softly spoken and hesitant, even though he's studying as a translator and his English skills are pretty great. I've been training him for the last couple of weeks, and it's hard to overcome my instinct of dropping into the well-practiced pidgin I've developed over the past five years working where I am (it's just easier when you're in any sort of hurry to omit unessential words that'll just end up confusing what you're trying to get across), when doing so probably seems fairly condescending, given his English skills are much greater than they appear on the surface.

 

[Nobody]

There is a girl I worth with whose first language is sign language. I think its cool, both her parents are deaf and so she learnt sign language first and then english at kindergarten. Cool eh?

 

[Lillefix]

There is a girl I worth with whose first language is sign language. I think its cool, both her parents are deaf and so she learnt sign language first and then english at kindergarten. Cool eh?

And she's not deaf herself. I see. That is kind of cool.

And I read a lot of a scifi. That's where I get my vocabulary from.

 

[CheeseWalrus]

I suppose I'm technically an ESLer, although I speak English better than German by now.

 

[Heretic_Cata]

I wish i had someone to have a conversation with around here.

Studied english for very few years (6-7?), but learned it way before from cartoons/movies/games/discovery. I feel like the things i've learned on my own were much more usefull than what they taught us in school (memorizing verbs and crap like that ).

And it's the same story for most of my generation who grew up on undubbed/unsubtitled cartoons. (movies had subtitles) But things are changing, and the new generation grew up on dubbed cartoons and t4k1ng 1iek th1s.

 

[Winner]

I'm pretty rotten at spoken English except when I'm drunk

Alcohol is indeed a magical substance. It even makes me speak English with my Czech friends when we consume it

---

Bilingualism isn't really anything exceptional, at least here in Europe. It's the people who speak 3 or more languages fluently that deserve praise and admiration. I am still struggling massively with German, but hopefully I'll make some progress this year.

 

[Masada]

How long have you studied English?

When I started primary school. Prior to that I could speak English but I didn't use it all that much.

Bilingualism isn't really anything exceptional, at least here in Europe. It's the people who speak 3 or more languages fluently that deserve praise and admiration. I am still struggling massively with German, but hopefully I'll make some progress this year.

In the Anglo-sphere it's different. Denmark for instance is about the size of New Zealand and has a lot of German and English programming. So much so, that a friend of mine picked German through the (better) German kids programming while his English flowed out of watching Brit crime shows. The sole source of non-English programming in New Zealand is Maori TV and a lot of that is in English.

In Australia, there's SBS which manages about 2 hours of programming per day in major languages like Chinese, Greek and Italian. Even the Serbs have their own news. That's enough to keep a speaker bought up in the language going but its insufficient for someone else. But in Indonesian which I speak (sorta) there's not enough. I have to watch Indonesian cable to get mah fix.

 

[Tee Kay]

I watched Indonesian soaps. Had a lot of fun joke-dubbing them with my sister.

 

[Masada]

I watched Indonesian soaps. Had a lot of fun joke-dubbing them with my sister.

I them. Terrible acting, contrived plots and hot chicks? What's not to like. Then again, I Indonesian pop too. So there's probably something wrong with me.

 

[civver_764]

I, too, am impressed by the proficiency of ESLers here.

Perhaps someday I'll learn a 2nd language as well as most of you seem to know English, unlikely but would be nice.

I'm pretty much fluent in German now after 6 months of living here, and I've been extremely lazy about it. If you've got a few months time and some motivation you could learn a second language easily and at a much better rate than me(3-4 months I'd say). Especially one close to English(ie. any Romance or Germanic language).

But yeah I'm also impressed the ESL's here. You guys all sound like native speakers. Here in Germany(eastern) the kids I know don't speak/write nearly as good english.

My question is: how does English sound to your ears? Because even though I can understand German if I'm paying attention, when I'm not it sounds mostly like incomprehensible background noise. The words and so just sound "off". Does this ever go away for a second language?

 

[Tee Kay]

My question is: how does English sound to your ears? Because even though I can understand German if I'm paying attention, when I'm not it sounds mostly like incomprehensible background noise. The words and so just sound "off". Does this ever go away for a second language?

It depends on the language you're thinking in at the moment.