Put him in with Bubba! LOL

[philippe]

They should have thought about that before committing a crime.

and what if you are innocent or a 15 year old girl thrown toghether with 20 men?

but do not forget people, this isn't just the USA, It's in almost every country. (voilence, drugs, rape and such)

 

[Che Guava]

They should have thought about that before committing a crime.

THen why not just institutionalize it? Have 'rape day' in prison and corporal punishment? I mean, why should the biggest and baddest guys get off scot-free if the purpose of prison is to influict as muich pain and suffering as possible?

 

[Arwon]

I read Godwynn as being sarcastic to demonstrate my argument just then.

Maybe i was wrong?

 

[Godwynn]

and what if you are innocent or a 15 year old girl thrown toghether with 20 men?

Did the 15 year old girl commit a crime? I partially remember a topic about it here.

Besides, you are taking this way out of proportion. In no way should a 15 year old girl be put in a room with 20 men alone, even if it is in the outside world!

 

[Elrohir]

They should have thought about that before committing a crime.

Bob gets caught smoking some pot, and has two kilos in it in his room. He goes to prison for several years. There he is raped and brutalized, and when he is released, he's lost any sense of empathy or respect for law and order. He kills and rapes a woman in an alley, but is subsequently caught, and is sent to prison for the rest of his natural life. There he brutalizes the "newbies" and the cycle continues.

This benefits society, how? "Bob" is fictitious, but stories like this are real. Our goal should be the overall good of society, not instinctive "he should have thought about that before he committed a rime!" responses.

 

[Godwynn]

THen why not just institutionalize it? Have 'rape day' in prison and corporal punishment? I mean, why should the biggest and baddest guys get off scot-free if the purpose of prison is to influict as muich pain and suffering as possible?

Woah, I never said endorse it. These things should obviously be taken into consideration before committing a crime, just like the piss poor food. If you hate crap food, don't go to jail.

Then again, it is criminals we are dealing with, and they are far from intelligent.

 

[Godwynn]

I read Godwynn as being sarcastic to demonstrate my argument just then.

Maybe i was wrong?

I have no sympathy for criminals. Crime and Punishment along with Gun Rights are where my very conservative streak shows.

I'm fairly liberal everywhere else, promise!

 

[Norseone]

I read Godwynn as being sarcastic to demonstrate my argument just then.

Maybe i was wrong?

You are wrong, apparently he is just failing to get beyond this Criminals arent human concept.

Godwynn...do you buy the idea that it would be better for society that if people who came out of prison would not commit crime or at least not become worse criminals? If so I see no way to defend your opinion. If someone is sexually abused as a child we know they are more likely to commit crimes, it follows that if someone is sexually abused as an adult they probably are more likely to commit crimes and probably worse ones than got them in prison.

 

[Godwynn]

Bob gets caught smoking some pot, and has two kilos in it in his room. He goes to prison for several years. There he is raped and brutalized, and when he is released, he's lost any sense of empathy or respect for law and order. He kills and rapes a woman in an alley, but is subsequently caught, and is sent to prison for the rest of his natural life. There he brutalizes the "newbies" and the cycle continues.

This benefits society, how? "Bob" is fictitious, but stories like this are real. Our goal should be the overall good of society, not instinctive "he should have thought about that before he committed a rime!" responses.

Since everyone here is talking as if this fictitious world was ran my way, Bob wouldn't be in jail for a victim less crime.

 

[Che Guava]

Woah, I never said endorse it. These things should obviously be taken into consideration before committing a crime, just like the piss poor food. If you hate crap food, don't go to jail.

Then again, it is criminals we are dealing with, and they are far from intelligent.

Saying that it is part of the natural deterrence of being convicted is tacit endorsement, IMHO, but I could see the argument the other way as well.

If it is illegal in prison, it should stop. If we can't stop it with the tools that we have now, we need new tools.


(and no, I don't have any idea what tools those would be, I'm just saying that we shouldn't have to accept the status quo if it is illegal.)

 

[Norseone]

Since everyone here is talking as if this fictitious world was ran my way, Bob wouldn't be in jail for a victim less crime.

How about this..some guys go to jail for armed robbery, not very likable eh? They get raped and snap. Once their time is served they go and commit a murder suicide because of the incident. You helped society eh?

 

[Godwynn]

Godwynn...do you buy the idea that it would be better for society that if people who came out of prison would not commit crime or at least not become worse criminals? If so I see no way to defend your opinion. If someone is sexually abused as a child we know they are more likely to commit crimes, it follows that if someone is sexually abused as an adult they probably are more likely to commit crimes and probably worse ones than got them in prison.

If they hate it so much in prison, they should not be committing more crimes on the outside world to go back into prison.

 

[Norseone]

People dont work like that and you know it....sometimes people cant control themselves and they are more likely to be able to if they arent crazy.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

And people aren't rational . . . we should take that into account, not act as though they are and then be surprised when that doesn't work.

 

[Godwynn]

If it is illegal in prison, it should stop.

I agree.

The problem I have is, how? Sure it's easy to say we will hire more prison guards, etc. The budget in Illinois is strained as is. As far as I am concerned we need to care for the upstanding citizen than to divert resources to help the incarcerated.

 

[Godwynn]

sometimes people cant control themselves

Sounds like they should be in prison or institutionalized if they cannot control themselves.

 

[Norseone]

Sounds like they should be in prison or institutionalized if they cannot control themselves.

Yeah...im saying that being sexually abused probably makes them less likely to be able to control themselves. Therefore they probably should just stay in prison forever, thanks for costing the taxpayers millions

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Bob gets caught smoking some pot, and has two kilos in it in his room. He goes to prison for several years. There he is raped and brutalized, and when he is released, he's lost any sense of empathy or respect for law and order. He kills and rapes a woman in an alley, but is subsequently caught, and is sent to prison for the rest of his natural life. There he brutalizes the "newbies" and the cycle continues.

Just the sort of example I was thinking of.
Like most people said, in-prison abuses reflect terribly on the state of the facilities, but it is also important to consider that such actions also negatively affect the victim's ability to re-integrate into society once released.

The question on how to stop it is a hard one. Preferably, as Godwynn said, we care for the upstanding citizen first so they aren't jailed. But there will likely always be criminals, and we need some way of helping the vulnerable behind bars as well.

 

[Arwon]

What prisoners "deserve" and what you have "sympathy" for is completely irrelevant here. Prisoners have been sentenced to incarceration, nothing more. Incarceration. Not institutionalised humiliation, not ritualised degredation, not torture, not abuse. If you want to make it open and write this rape and abuse into the law, Constitution and civilised society be damned, then do so. Otherwise, don't hide behind winking hedged "not that I endorse it" style platitudes because the attitude you're showing is exactly what leads to society's tacit endorsement of this idea that prisoners are tainted and besmirched and essentially not worthy of being considered human.

That "prisoner rights" gets equated to "soft on crime" at all is indicitive how how deeply rotten the entire situation has become. It's a poisonous situation that means the simple remedy required (money and political will) just does not exist.

 

[Godwynn]

Yeah...im saying that being sexually abused probably makes them less likely to be able to control themselves.

Yet another thing to think about before committing a crime.

Therefore they probably should just stay in prison forever, thanks for costing the taxpayers millions

I prefer that they work, for free.