Putting together my 2nd PC from scratch

[illram]

The salesman at CompUSA/Tiger Direct suggested not going under 750 watts for my power. I have a 650 watt PSU right now on my old PC, so it sounds like maybe I should get a new PSU?

Also I posted on the TomsHardware forums and someone recommended these motherboards to me.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...-na&AID=10446076&PID=4176827&SID=msjkmcaeawsb

What do you guys think of these?



Ah...great idea!

First rule is salespeople at CompUSA know absolutely nothing and should never be trusted. The components you described come nowhere near breaking 650w, even assuming your PSU is not very efficient. What GPU do you have? Do you plan on having two?

As for the mobos, think about what you need first. If you're not overclocking and you do not anticipate having more than one video card, you can get a cheaper but still feature-laden board with the H77 chipset, which is more up to date and has more features than its older cousin the H67. (H77 is basically Z68 minus overclocking and multi-GPU support.) The -77 models are basically the Ivy Bridge upgrades Intel rolled out right before Ivy Bridge hit the shelves. H67 and Z68 will still support Ivy Bridge so long as the BIOS is up to date.

 

[Quintillus]

For what you're describing, unless your GPU is ridiculously power-thirsty (and maybe even then), 650W will be fine. I've been running a similar setup power-consumption-wise (albeit with a year older of components), and a 650W power supply. No issues, and I probably would've been fine with a fair amount less power - just went a little extra to have some legroom.

And shopping tip, you might want to just start scanning component prices now, and plan on pouncing by/on Black Friday.

Excellent point. I saved quite a bit of money by doing that last year.

As a related point, depending on how much stuff you decide to buy new vs. re-using (or buying for other projects/gifts), you might want to spread Black Friday purchases across a couple credit/debit cards to avoid 'suspicious activity' issues.

 

[Gary Childress]

My computer is still in the shop right now so I don't know what the GPU is. When I get it back this weekend I'll be able to tell you all more. I hope 650 watt will be enough. My PSU is a Corsair CMPSU - 650 TX. It was supposed to be a decent PSU when I first bought it. It's rated "80 PLUS certified", whatever that means.

Here's the case I bought:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139011

Sort of minimalist. I like the look of it.

 

[illram]

I am a big fan of minimalist myself. It's why I splurge on Lian Li cases, which I love, even though they can be quirky to work with and are a little overpriced. Most important thing is you like the looks of it!

80 Plus means the PSU always operates at at least 80% energy efficiency at 20%, 50% and 100% of its wattage. From wiki:

For instance, a 600-watt power supply with 60% efficiency running at full load would draw 1000 W from the mains and would therefore waste 400 W as heat. On the other hand a 600-watt power supply with 80% efficiency running at full load would draw 750 W from the mains and would therefore waste only 150 W as heat.

These days PSUs are rated at 80 Bronze, Silver and Gold, with each being incrementally more efficient than the other.

 

[Gary Childress]

I am a big fan of minimalist myself. It's why I splurge on Lian Li cases, which I love, even though they can be quirky to work with and are a little overpriced. Most important thing is you like the looks of it!

80 Plus means the PSU always operates at at least 80% energy efficiency at 20%, 50% and 100% of its wattage. From wiki:



These days PSUs are rated at 80 Bronze, Silver and Gold, with each being incrementally more efficient than the other.

I had thought of getting a new PSU. One with modular cables would be nice to keep down the clutter in the case. What about a Gold rated PSU? Would my electric bill be a little less each month with a Gold instead of Bronze? Or would it really make any noticable difference?

 

[tokala]

Also I posted on the TomsHardware forums and someone recommended these motherboards to me.

What do you guys think of these?

Nothing wrong with them, but that's equally valid for dozens of others, less expensive boards.
Do you have any specific requirements for you board that can only been met by $100+ boards?
I suspect not, and buying a feature laden board because you have no idea what you might need is not very efficient. If at some point in the future you should need more ports, NICs or whatever, you can always plop in a card or a bracket supplying the required features.

The salesman at CompUSA/Tiger Direct suggested not going under 750 watts for my power. I have a 650 watt PSU right now on my old PC, so it sounds like maybe I should get a new PSU?
...
I had thought of getting a new PSU. One with modular cables would be nice to keep down the clutter in the case. What about a Gold rated PSU? Would my electric bill be a little less each month with a Gold instead of Bronze? Or would it really make any noticable difference?

No, no and no.

A corsair TX series is solid quality, and a 650W model with 54A on the +12V rail is already ridiculously overpowered for your system.

Max power draw:
CPU: 80W
Video card: depends on the model, if it's a performance model probably 100...150W
Peripherials, drives, memory, mainboard all together: ~50W

Unless you are using software specifially designed to max out the load on GPU and CPU at the same time, you will never reach this maximum values at the same time.
So you will max out at about 250W, and while idling the system will be closer to 50W than to 100W.
For reference, see the charts here: http://ht4u.net/reviews/2012/intel_ivy_bridge_core_i7_3770k/index23.php
power draw in watts, first chart is idle, second full CPU load.

(I have a system with a Phenom II (~100W), HD7850 (~100W), 3 HDDs, 2 SSDs and an optical drive, running just fine with a (quality) 450W PSU)

If anything you should look for a 380-450W model when shopping for a new PSU, as running a PSU at a very low load factor (~10% at idle for the 650TX) is very inefficient.
In more details, from someone who makes a living testing PSUs:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2624

The article is a bit older, drives, boards and CPUs have become less power hungry in the meantime.

Financially it would take seveal years to get your money back if you buy a more efficient PSU, if ever:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2668/5

 

[Gary Childress]

Nothing wrong with them, but that's equally valid for dozens of others, less expensive boards.
Do you have any specific requirements for you board that can only been met by $100+ boards?
I suspect not, and buying a feature laden board because you have no idea what you might need is not very efficient. If at some point in the future you should need more ports, NICs or whatever, you can always plop in a card or a bracket supplying the required features.

I've sort of noticed, it seems (maybe I'm wrong), that the more expensive the board the more of the latest connectors they seem to have. For instance if I want 4 x USB 3.0 then it will typically be more expensive than similar boards with 2 x USB 3.0 and 2 x USB 2.0. If this observation is correct (again I'm not sure if it is, I've just noticed it over what little browsing I've done), wouldn't it be best to get boards with the latest industry standards so if I upgrade in the future I will have the latest connectors? For instance, do I really want a board with any USB 1.0 connectors? USB 1.0 is sort of being phased out isn't it? And if I don't get a board with some expansion room then where am I going to pop in a card or bracket with the additional features unless there are slots for them? Granted I don't need 5 PCI slots but wouldn't a couple extras be a good idea even though I may never use them? Just some thoughts. Yes, I'd love to get a board for $50.00 but would I regret it in the future? That's my only concern. If I'm going to buy a top notch processor then I want to be sure I am getting other components which will compliment it well.

Right now the majority of MBs seem to be priced in the $100-200 range. If a $50 board is as good as a $150 board, then why would anyone be dumb enough to buy a $150 board? I'm just thinking there's got to be a reason why some boards are more expensive than others and why it would be better to go with a $150 board over a $50 one if one has the ability to do so. Otherwise $150 MBs would never sell and would just gather dust on the shelves. I know you know a lot more about PCs than I do and I apologize for questioning your expertise but it just seems strange that there would be more expensive boards at all if all boards are much the same.

Granted I don't want to spend $200 on a MB if a $100 MB will suit me just as well. But before I invest and start putting this thing together I just want to be sure that I'm not putting Walmart brand tires on a Ferrari.

On the plus side the MB I have with my current computer was a $50 bundle deal with a quad core AMD Phenom Black edition processor that cost over $200 when I bought it. My computer has lasted a long time with minimal problems on that $50 board. Of course I'll never know if my computer would have run even better on a $100 board. But the $50 board has served me pretty well I must admit.

Anyway, as you can tell, this is a big investment for me and I just want to be sure that I'm doing the best thing.

Thanks again for all your help. And please do correct me if I'm wrong. I do appreciate the advice and assistance.

 

[tokala]

Yes, I'd love to get a board for $50.00 but would I regret it in the future? That's my only concern. If I'm going to buy a top notch processor then I want to be sure I am getting other components which will compliment it well.
...
Granted I don't want to spend $200 on a MB if a $100 MB will suit me just as well. But before I invest and start putting this thing together I just want to be sure that I'm not putting Walmart brand tires on a Ferrari.
...
Anyway, as you can tell, this is a big investment for me and I just want to be sure that I'm doing the best thing.

It's your money, and you have to be happy with your purchase. Saving $25 out of a $500+ rebuild is probably not worth the nagging feeling that you bought some piece of junk for several years.

That Gigabyte board you linked doesn't look bad, lots of features for the money. BTW, almost all modern boards have at least 4 USB3 ports, you just have to connect the two internal ones with the front ports of your case.

Right now the majority of MBs seem to be priced in the $100-200 range. If a $50 board is as good as a $150 board, then why would anyone be dumb enough to buy a $150 board? I'm just thinking there's got to be a reason why some boards are more expensive than others and why it would be better to go with a $150 board over a $50 one if one has the ability to do so. Otherwise $150 MBs would never sell and would just gather dust on the shelves.I know you know a lot more about PCs than I do and I apologize for questioning your expertise but it just seems strange that there would be more expensive boards at all if all boards are much the same.

Oh the wonders of modern capitalism/marketing/consumerism

From an average consumers perspective PC technology has long ago moved beyond "good enough, even if you go for the economy model", with the exception of harddrives (Now SSDs are about to close that gap). Apart from high-end gaming, there's very little need for powerful machines in the consumer market.
So the marketing machine has to convince the customers that they need more than just the low-end parts. That's fairly easy if your costumer base, on average, has no idea what they actually need for their purposes.
Having a bazillion different models filling the full range between $40 and $400 (or even more) is just a part of that marketing scheme, as it creates the impression that $100-$200 would be a middle of the road region, just right for the moderately demanding user.

A $50 board would do fine for about 90% of all customers, $100 for about 99%.
And the vast majority of SOLD boards will be in the $50-100 range

Some people do indeed need some feature only expensive boards can provide, but those are really very special circumstances.

 

[Zelig]

Some people do indeed need some feature only expensive boards can provide, but those are really very special circumstances.

I hate PS/2, d-sub and PCI ports.

 

[illram]

I've sort of noticed, it seems (maybe I'm wrong), that the more expensive the board the more of the latest connectors they seem to have. For instance if I want 4 x USB 3.0 then it will typically be more expensive than similar boards with 2 x USB 3.0 and 2 x USB 2.0. If this observation is correct (again I'm not sure if it is, I've just noticed it over what little browsing I've done), wouldn't it be best to get boards with the latest industry standards so if I upgrade in the future I will have the latest connectors? For instance, do I really want a board with any USB 1.0 connectors? USB 1.0 is sort of being phased out isn't it? And if I don't get a board with some expansion room then where am I going to pop in a card or bracket with the additional features unless there are slots for them? Granted I don't need 5 PCI slots but wouldn't a couple extras be a good idea even though I may never use them? Just some thoughts. Yes, I'd love to get a board for $50.00 but would I regret it in the future? That's my only concern. If I'm going to buy a top notch processor then I want to be sure I am getting other components which will compliment it well.

Right now the majority of MBs seem to be priced in the $100-200 range. If a $50 board is as good as a $150 board, then why would anyone be dumb enough to buy a $150 board? I'm just thinking there's got to be a reason why some boards are more expensive than others and why it would be better to go with a $150 board over a $50 one if one has the ability to do so. Otherwise $150 MBs would never sell and would just gather dust on the shelves. I know you know a lot more about PCs than I do and I apologize for questioning your expertise but it just seems strange that there would be more expensive boards at all if all boards are much the same.

Granted I don't want to spend $200 on a MB if a $100 MB will suit me just as well. But before I invest and start putting this thing together I just want to be sure that I'm not putting Walmart brand tires on a Ferrari.

On the plus side the MB I have with my current computer was a $50 bundle deal with a quad core AMD Phenom Black edition processor that cost over $200 when I bought it. My computer has lasted a long time with minimal problems on that $50 board. Of course I'll never know if my computer would have run even better on a $100 board. But the $50 board has served me pretty well I must admit.

Anyway, as you can tell, this is a big investment for me and I just want to be sure that I'm doing the best thing.

Thanks again for all your help. And please do correct me if I'm wrong. I do appreciate the advice and assistance.

What tokala said. It's marketing. If you're buying the correct CPU socket (LGA 1155 for Ivy and Sandy) for your CPU and you're buying the latest generation chipset (H or Z77) then you can rest assured you are getting the hardware that will be compatible with peripherals and components for years to come. SATAIII and USB3, which are the latest storage connectors nowadays, are on any H77 board and many H67 boards. How many various connections you need depends on what you are using, but remember in some cases you can expand those later without needing a new mobo.

There is something to be said with being comfortable with your purchase though, so if spending a little bit more gives you peace of mind then you should do that.

 

[GoodGame]

Just curious, is there a list of USB version 3 devices out? I've only found USB drives that can transfer above version 2.0.

 

[Gary Childress]

Some alternative motherboard recommendations would be helpful then. How about this...

A question directed at all the computer savvy out there: Suppose this were your computer you were putting together. You're getting an i7-3770 processor and not overclocking. You're using the computer for gaming and 3D graphics. If you were in my shoes and you were the one doing the buying and putting together...what would be your best choice for a motherboard? What would you buy in my shoes...assuming that you will be the one paying for it? (I once had someone pick out a fine bottle of wine for me asking a similar question so this might help here too.)

Edit: BTW my case arrived today and it looks beautiful! Can't wait to fill it with some gadgets! But I'll hold off per GoodGame's suggestion and wait for Black Friday. Hopefully there will be some good deals out there.

 

[illram]

Either this at $75 or this at $70. The ASRock look likes a better deal to me. The GIGABYTE comes recommended for non-overclockers on a site I trust, however. ([H] forum)

This is assuming you do not want two GPUs. The Gigabyte allows more RAM (32GB v 16) but the ASRock has more USB ports, more SATA III ports, and supports SSD caching, if you ever want to try that. And it is cheaper and is (technically on the Intel hierarchy) the more "advanced" Ivy Bridge chipset, compared to the B75. Not that that matters too much. Keep in mind both are Micro-ATX boards but your case says it is compatible with this smaller size.

It's all about what features you need. To me, it does not sound like you need many of the bells and whistles.

 

[tokala]

While those boards certainly have most/all of the stuff you might ever need, I don't like the cramped layout on µ-ATX boards.
With a performance graphics card you will block some slots, and if you occupy the remaining ones, you are likely putting stuff in the way of the air flow around the graphics card.
Mind you, likely you will never need to use those extra slots, but you are looking for stuff with a bit of headroom, just in case, no?

I really like this one:
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?cat=Specifications&Model=B75 Pro3
it has a very well thought out layout, and I'm partial to Asrock boards.
(History of good support and catering to the needs and wishes of us geeks)
Bonus points as it got the nod from the German geek squad, and it costs about the same as those others ($75):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157314

A close second would be that one:
http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en/mb/introduction.php?S_ID=595#spec
slightly inferior layout, one less SATAIII port but one more PCIe slot.
Might be hard to find, though. Should cost about as much as the Asrock.


In any case make sure to install only the necessary drivers from the CDs included. Apparently the bloatware disease has infected even retail mainboards, and if you are not careful it will install a boatfull of junk software.

And make sure that you have the latest BIOS/UEFI, if there's a beta version available, use that.
There are reports of compatibility issues with the PCIe 3.0 slots, if all else fails you have to boot with the integrated graphics to set it to PCIe 2.0 mode in the BIOS/UEFI. This won't negatively affect performance.

 

[illram]

Those look good too. Yes, if you plan on filling the PCI slots and you have a beefy graphics card, microATX can get a little cramped.

Between these four recommendations I think you will find a winner Gary.

 

[Gary Childress]

I really like this one:
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?cat=Specifications&Model=B75 Pro3
it has a very well thought out layout, and I'm partial to Asrock boards.
(History of good support and catering to the needs and wishes of us geeks)
Bonus points as it got the nod from the German geek squad, and it costs about the same as those others ($75):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157314

I might go with the one above.

Now this is a B75 chip set, aren't H77 and Z77 the "latest greatest" in motherboards? How does a B75 compare? Is chip set pretty irrelevant to performance also?

Thanks.

 

[Gary Childress]

I got my old computer back from the shop also. The GPU I have is an EVGA GTX 550 Ti w 1024MB GDDR5 with SC "good" rating. The salesman told me it was a decent middle of the road GPU or better.

Does this sound like a good card to go with an i7-3770?

Since my PSU is apparently good enough and I've heard that PSUs generally don't have anything to do with CPU performance or anything I guess I'll try to put my old PSU in the new machine.

I'm wondering if it might be OK to salvage a few fans from my old machine to put in my new one? It might save a few $. What do you guys think?

And as far as GPUs, I may just go with what I have regardless and if I need to upgrade I will do it at a later date. That way I'm forking over a little less $ for the time being.

For RAM I have my eye on some Corsair Vengeance. Does that sound like a good choice? Should I go with 2 x 4 Gb RAM or 2 x 8 Gb RAM or perhaps 4 x 4 Gb? What would you guys recommend with RAM?

Thanks.

 

[illram]

Chipset is irrelevant for CPU performance, you will be fine with a B75 unless you want to add more SSDs or use SSD caching or have more USB 3.0 ports on the board or something.

Does your new case come with fans? It should. But if there are extra vents for fans then bring over your old fans as well, so long as the noise does not bother you. Looks like that mobo has about 3 or 4 chassis fans, just from the Newegg pic.

Your PSU is definitely plenty for that video card. 550 ti is a midrange card and you will definitely have a lot of headroom to upgrade with an i7... that processor will smoke mostly everything for a few years to come, you'll want to eventually buy a better GPU to really see what that sucker can do.

 

[tokala]

Now this is a B75 chip set, aren't H77 and Z77 the "latest greatest" in motherboards? How does a B75 compare? Is chip set pretty irrelevant to performance also?

All those chipsets are of the same generation, with the B(usiness)75 designed for "no-frills" boards.
They have the same basic functionality and features, only that H and Z support some more goodies you will not need:
Overclocking, SSD caching (irrelevant if you get a "real" SSD), better bandwidth distribution for multiple graphics cards setups, RAID capability.
They have two more USB 2.0 ports and one more SATA 3 connector.

The Asrock board I suggested has an additional controller chip providing two more SATA 3 connectors, and even SATA 2 would be more than fast enough, onless you plan to build a SSD storage array.

I got my old computer back from the shop also. The GPU I have is an EVGA GTX 550 Ti w 1024MB GDDR5 with SC "good" rating. The salesman told me it was a decent middle of the road GPU or better.

Does this sound like a good card to go with an i7-3770?

Since my PSU is apparently good enough and I've heard that PSUs generally don't have anything to do with CPU performance or anything I guess I'll try to put my old PSU in the new machine.

I'm wondering if it might be OK to salvage a few fans from my old machine to put in my new one? It might save a few $. What do you guys think?

And as far as GPUs, I may just go with what I have regardless and if I need to upgrade I will do it at a later date. That way I'm forking over a little less $ for the time being.

For RAM I have my eye on some Corsair Vengeance. Does that sound like a good choice? Should I go with 2 x 4 Gb RAM or 2 x 8 Gb RAM or perhaps 4 x 4 Gb? What would you guys recommend with RAM?

Thanks.

A 550Ti is just about right for playing Civ5 at max settings.
Generally its performance would be considered entry level for the dedicated gamer, but it should serve you well enough for the present generation of games.
When it shouldn't be good enough for you any more, you can easily upgrade it a few years down the road.

Your PSU would be about right two power two systems like the one you are buiding now.

The fans that come with your case should be more than sufficient.

If you get a board with 4 memory slots, I suggest to go with 2x4GB. Most likely that will be more than enough.

I have an aversion to those fancy bling-bling overclocking modules.
They serve no pratical purpose whatsoever, and introduce the potential for compatibility issues.
Get some boring 1.5V JEDEC conform sticks from a reputable manufacturer:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820191517
or a pair of one of those:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...IsNodeId=1&name=4GB&ShowDeactivatedMark=False

If you later feel the need for 16GB, you will be able to buy another pair with identical specification from those manufacturers for years to come.

 

[Quintillus]

For the motherboards, if you're thinking of grabbing one on Black Friday, it's best to have three or four that you'd all find acceptable. They won't all be on sale, and it's possible none of them will. I ended up getting a PSU that was different than I originally intended because of changing sales (I also have a Corsair 650W, actually).

The GPU is going to be less powerful, relatively speaking, than that CPU. But, there's no harm in starting with that GPU and upgrading later on. However, I'm a bit concerned about the situation that you're building this to be a gaming machine, and you're leaning towards re-using the GPU. It raises the question of the cause for the upgrade in the first place (i.e., why isn't your current computer adequate?). I'd expect that when building a gaming PC, inadequate GPU performance would usually be one of the reasons.

Corsair Vengeance would work for RAM, but you're probably spending (slightly) more than you really need to for the brand, with minimal performance impact. About the only time that paying for faster RAM might make sense is if you're using integrated graphics. Otherwise, the cheapest RAM at the size you want pretty much always makes sense. Scanning Newegg's cheapest 8 GB modules, I'd be fine going with anything from Kingston, G. Skill, Corsair, Muskin, Transcend, Patriot, Crucial, GeIL, and Samsung (and PNY is probably OK too - I just had bad luck with one of their flash drives).

If the price is the same, or within a few dollars, it's preferable to go with two RAM modules than four, so you can upgrade more easily later - better to use half as many RAM slots and not having to get rid of some RAM if you upgrade later. I'd personally go with 2 x 4 GB, since that's likely goign to be adequate, and you can bump it up later. If you decide to start with 16 GB, you might as well start with 2 x 8, if the price is similar. Which, according to Newegg, it appears to be pretty much identical. If buying today, this 8 GB for $30 and this 16 GB for $55 look like the best deals.