PW-01: Holy word

[TriviAl]

I must agree with r_rolo, we need more cities and military before being peaceful again

Anyway, great job TriviAl - you were the right person in the right place for this 'dark ages'.

Btw, remember, quoting The Decalogue:

7 – Thou will not keep more than a third of thy neighbor’s conquered cities.

We should conquer at least three in counter-attack (if we want to counter-attack), to keep one juicy stuff.

On the one side I hope the resolution passes, and we have time to build up our border with Mao, on the other hand wouldn't it be nice to pacify his three cities, keeping one and screwing him to peace afterwards ? Remember, we have Knights coming in one or two turns + engineering road bonus...

Pholk, no problem to play on thursday. I hope your kids won't each too much candies

I did have a look at his cities - the only one we could realistically hold is Hangchow (I think) - which is really rather rubbish. If the AP doesn't pass, then I'd be tempted to take it, get him to surrender, then give it back.

The nice bit was we have a really huge tech advantage, if he'd been coming at us with 'modern' units then it would have gotten seriously ugly! Even so, his much larger number of units is quite scary.

 

[Zargon]

I think we should stick to our peaceful nature and not waste time trying to wrest trash cities from Mao.

We should build up a small defensive army under theology, swap to OR, then settle cities in the west, on which we spam cottages all over, since we are coming up on the major power multipliers for a CE. We've already settled all the great land for production and great persons, now let's settle the sub-par land and fill it with cottages.

 

[pholkhero]

Turn 160/500 (1000 AD) [31-Oct-2007 09:32:52]
I press Enter and await the smoke billowing from the Apostolic Palace.

Ahh, nuts:

The war was ended for us just as mao's forces were crossing the river and about to be annihilated!

Turn 161/500 (1010 AD) [31-Oct-2007 09:36:50]
Alex ended our deal:

I didn’t bother to renew it.

I started the Univ of Sankore at Memphis, and started to build a more troops just in case, and station them out west. The GG we have here should be settled, but i'm not sure there was any group consensus. I go with Thebes as it'l be producing more units in the near-term. It was producing a few units, then I swapped it to some missionaries, and then a grocer, and a bank should be next. However, imo, it should continue to crank out troops for a good, long while, just to have them: garrisons, pikes, knights, maces, siege, et al so that, if anybody else decides to get frisky, we’ll have more than a hearty handshake to give them
[As an aside, here’s a great new feature of BUG: Whip anger has decreased in Heliopolis!]

As I’m looking at the log, it seems our AI neighbors are pretty friendly with each other. I wonder if now I see the genius of Imhotep’s design. Perhaps these AIs are friendly enough, long enough so that once PAs are available, we may be fighting a hydra of our own, in a sense: multi-allied AIs. Is there a limit to the number of Allies a group can have? We may have to worry about a 7-headed one!!

In other news, both Alexander and JC revolted to Vassalage and Org Religion.

Turn 162/500 (1020 AD) [31-Oct-2007 09:43:38]
First off, we hit 5 million people:

Marie Curie (Great Scientist) was born in Thebes. We got a GS, though the odds were 3% better for a GP. Ah well, I almost want to use him for a GAge, but I think Education might be a better option On the upside, Alexandria’s up next for a GP, so I’m maximizing Priests there.

Guilds came in, and I bulb’ed Educ, and it’ll be done in 4. I’m going to head for Banking next to increase our money haul @ Thebes.

On the IBT:, we got some religion spread:
Buddhism has spread: St. Petersburg (Russian Empire)
Judaism has spread: Rostov (Russian Empire)

Turn 163/500 (1030 AD) [31-Oct-2007 09:47:35]
Mao wants to deal:

I took the OB with Mao to spread some faith to him, and then I remembered that he is already Buddhist, sending the missionary east. I’m having those two workers continue the road all the way to the end of the isthmus, so, for now, w/their 6 moves per turn on a road, it’s faster than the galley method.

And also, Buddhism has spread: Pharsalos (Greek Empire). I always forget how great shrines are! Increases the spread of the religion, thus netting you more cash ~ brilliant. [This gives me an idea for another SG ~ a strict requirement to run only priests, and win via Apostolic AFTER spreading your religion to every city so it’s a fair win.]

Turn 164/500 (1040 AD) [31-Oct-2007 09:49:22]
Nothing but Hinduism spreading to Macau on the IBT.

Turn 165/500 (1050 AD) [31-Oct-2007 09:50:56]
JC comes a’calling:

I said, uhh, no. You just become a Buddhist like everyone else and stop the smashy-smashy!

I started a Buddhist Temple (4 turns) in Alexandria for a bit more culture there against China, and to run another priest. After this, it went with a forge. When that finishes, it should start on a settler for us. Or maybe after the GP pops out.

Turn 166/500 (1060 AD) [31-Oct-2007 09:52:46]
To begin:

Research begun: Banking (4 Turns)

Also:

Memphis begins: Notre Dame (6 turns)

We discovered education on the day the University was built!?! Which came first, education or the University?

Heliopolis begins: Courthouse (10 turns) Another new feature of the BUG that I’m glad to see the “Rush Alert.” In a couple turns, I’ll know when it’s ready to be whippable! Super sweet!!

More spread on the IBT: Buddhism: Rostov

Turn 167/500 (1070 AD) [31-Oct-2007 09:54:45]

I decided not to make that deal w/JC so that he can't go Theocracy, and deny us use of the ears of his people to the one true faith. Gotta love overzealous Buddhists! Always in your face!!

It’s a veritable holy-day: Buddhism to uMgung & Smolensk…, and Halicarnassas got TaoismIBT:

Turn 168/500 (1080 AD) [31-Oct-2007 09:56:13]
Haha ~ nice!The whip was applied in Heliopolis Love that BUG! [/free advertisement] Heliopolis finishes: Courthouse

Buddhism to Krasnoyarsk (Russian Empire), too.

Turn 169/500 (1090 AD) [31-Oct-2007 09:57:27]
I started a Castle (9 turns) @ Giza, both for the defense and the culture pressure. I think, w/the changes in BtS, esp. in regards to bombardment, castles have a good place on border cities in danger of being sieged.

More good “Budd”s. Vladivostok

Turn 170/500 (1100 AD) [31-Oct-2007 09:59:24]
Gil, ol’ boy! Good to see ya!

I took it for the Harbors mainly, and so that we can try for Astro for Liberalism.

We also got another resolution:

I voted no. I’ve also outlined where I think our next city should go. ‘Twould be perfect commerce/cottage city, w/the gold, spices, FPs and grass Cows! Better than sub-par for sure ~ at least, maybe, par, or even supra-par ~

Banking

I started on Liberalism (7 Turns). I never thought to check how close any other civ is, but I think we’ve got a lock on it for the near-term. We may want to hold on to it for a good tech: but which one??

In any case, I stopped here at 10 simply because that’s all I had time to do. And after I point out the 15 turns I continued building some troops in. . . uh, that southerly city by the sea, but, imo, we still need more, esp. if we have to deal with any form of teamed-up AI.

Other than spreading more religions around our cities, and more Buddhism around the world, we're in great shape, i think.

 

[r_rolo1]

Nice set, pholk, but this is not the SG where we forgot our saves on purpose...

I like your city placing.... in addition we should rex until we got to the southern icelands, just to keep us out of trouble.....

[This gives me an idea for another SG ~ a strict requirement to run only priests, and win via Apostolic AFTER spreading your religion to every city so it’s a fair win.]

Count me in Looks crazy enough ( sometimes I wonder I'm not in the DM )

 

[pholkhero]

What's funny is that as soon as I that you had posted from the SG sub-forum, I KNEW i had forgotten the save!

I'm really getting bad at that!

Also, here's the thread I just started over at DM about the game. Go check it out; we're always looking to bump membership into the double digits

 

[Zargon]

Well, at least during my turnset, we were so far ahead on the liberalism race it wasn't funny. I'd say research nationalism > printing press > constitution, but slip in all but one turn worth of liberalism shortly after any of the AI's picks up paper + philosophy. If we can finish nationalism before researching the bulk of liberalism, that will let us build the Taj Mahal sooner to accelerate our progress on this line to get the most out of liberalism.

Finish liberalism off to pick up either constitution or democracy depending on how far along that line we get before the AI forces our hand, then grab economics for the great merchant. I don't know how effective astronomy would be for us, and completing the democracy line asap has very good and obvious payoffs.

And put up a bank in the capitol. Top priority. And a grocer unless it's already there.

 

[pawelo]

Very nice spreading - thou have prayed well, brother pholkhero

You city placement is lovely.

As for the liberalism, I agree on putting that off, as long as we check for AI advances on the subject.
And count me in for your SG too

Maybe I'll pop up your membership count soon...

Stuge, up to you

 

[TriviAl]

Nice turns there!

And the proposed Liberalism > Democracy path sounds excellent.

I'd say astronomy is a pretty low priority with the landbridge - our missionaries will move faster when we've roaded it.

Think this might be a game to hold off on Sci Method - grab as many monastries as possible - the more the better IMO?

 

[Zargon]

Agreed there. If we flip from Theology to OR in the near future, it might be worth our while to spam a lot of missionaries of all our religions to a bunch of different places and put up monasteries to go with them. We're going to have a spam a hell of a lot of missionaries late game, so having 4+ monasteries in all our cities will be a huge benefit.

Obviously though, this takes back seat to spreading buddism and building the temple & monastery for that, for those obvious benefits.

 

[stuge]

Nice progress. I agree on roading the land bridge making astro less of a priority.

I can't play before the weekend, so if that's okay, I'll get it and play on Saturday, but I won't mind getting skipped.

 

[pholkhero]

And a grocer unless it's already there.

grocer should be finishing up in a few turns in Thebes, so we're ready for the bank, there, next.

thou have prayed well, brother pholkhero

[snip]

And count me in for your SG too

Maybe I'll pop up your membership count soon...

thank you ~ i'll reserve a spot for you in the game, and, please, we welcome new deviants ~ rolo has already turned to our side I get $5 for every new recruit

having 4+ monasteries in all our cities will be a huge benefit.

I think every city should prioritize buddhist temples and monasteries for the sci/money boni they give. However, once Sci Method is in, our monasteries will be worthless so we won't be able to use them late-game; OR will be the only way to spam missionaries. I think we should stick with it (OR) for as long as possible, both for the building bonus, and the missionaries.

 

[Zargon]

I thought obsoleted monasteries still let you build missionaries.

I'm speaking from the standpoint of not binding us to OR for the remainder of the game. If we have the monasteries we need to spam each type of missionary from at least 2-3 cities, then we can flip religion civics if we want to without giving up the all important missionary spam.

Either way, our capitol at least should have a bunch of monasteries for the research bonus, since we are going to delay SciMeth as long as possible.

And yes, getting buddism + its buildings in all cities is higher on the list than spamming fake religions.

 

[pholkhero]

I thought obsoleted monasteries still let you build missionaries.

I'm speaking from the standpoint of not binding us to OR for the remainder of the game. If we have the monasteries we need to spam each type of missionary from at least 2-3 cities, then we can flip religion civics if we want to without giving up the all important missionary spam.

Either way, our capitol at least should have a bunch of monasteries for the research bonus, since we are going to delay SciMeth as long as possible.

nah ~ it gets rid of all benefits.

we should hop out of OR for a bit while we build a set or two of units (go to Theo). Then, hop back to OR and have those same military builders cities go w/missionaries. I know that's a huge benefit of the SPR trait, but i so very rarely use it, i forget how powerful it can be.

yeah, our capital is a madman for science and gold. any and all commerce multipliers should have priority, but it is a good production center, too ~ all in all, i love it

 

[r_rolo1]

nah ~ it gets rid of all benefits.

Cities with monasteries still can build missionaries after SciMet... ( and keeps culture, methinks.... )

yeah, our capital is a madman for science and gold. any and all commerce multipliers should have priority, but it is a good production center, too ~ all in all, i love it

I agree.... our capitol would be a really good city for a OCC ( are still in time to convince GreyFox to use this for Fox08?.... you know how the game is going.....
London bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down..... / )

P.S. Who is Up?

 

[pholkhero]

Cities with monasteries still can build missionaries after SciMet... ( and keeps culture, methinks....

Really? culture i thought so, but the only thing you lose is the sci bonus??

 

[r_rolo1]

^^And the ability of building more....

 

[pawelo]

@stuge

OK, I'll take this one up, and you are on deck for tomorrow. I hope it's ok with everyone.
Tbp this afternoon - in 8-9 hours - I start my mid-weekend break @ work
Keep me busy on this thread please

@zargon, pholkhero

You're right on OR and I'd stick to it for the +25% hammers and missionary spam.
However, having several monasteries in core commerce cities is a HUGE benefit pre-Sci Meth (and you can research a whole bunch of stuffe before Sci Meth), so I would give it a shot anyway.

Any more suggestions for upcoming 10 (other than to hold off lib 1 turn from getting it) ?

BTW, for all BUG fans, the newest version is a pure wonder. Pholkhero has already shown one example of why you just must have it - it just got added another nice warning - your city is shrinking in population!
It would save my game some months ago, when I forgot my capital was on food deficit to get rid of the unhappiness (back then I wasn't a big whip fan I became) and starved it for 4 pop (it was low on food production and took me an eternity getting it back to the iniatial size).

 

[Zargon]

Nothing wrong with staying in OR for a while for the 25% hammers on buildings, but if we want to use other religion civics post SciMeth, then having some monasteries would make that easier. Two of each monastery could pretty easily be done with the capitol, the wonderspammer, and the copper coastal city.

As for the upcoming turns, don't bring lib to within one until somebody else can research education. Getting nationalism a few turns earlier means Taj a few turns earlier.

 

[pawelo]

Sorry guys, plans changed and I won't manage it before tomorrow at noon.

I think it makes you up again stuge I am on deck.

 

[stuge]

Okay, I've got it and will play tonight.