Qsc19-Ottomans Results & Strategy Discussion

Mark Cutt,

Excellent Quartile analysis and what you have done is almost exactly what I have done each month in the background as part of the QSC review process.

It is hard to correlate individual QSC scores versus final game scores because there are so many decisions that can rest in between the end of the Qsc and the Final Victory.

One thing that we can observe is that players in the QSC tend to fall into two fairly distinctive groups that evolve over time.

The "Demonstrators/Performers" are players who really do seem to be in command of the game even without the QSC and they are using the Qsc as a vehicle to give something back to the community while at the same time testing the finite limits of some fairly precise strategy choices.

The "Emerging Players" are players who use the Qsc to sort out the mechanical techniques that open up the doors to doing fun things in the game at difficulty levels that may have been previously untried or inaccessible. We see players in this second group actively moving up in quantitative score performance in both the Qsc and The Full game submission.

There are qualitative measures of improvement that we can see in most "emerging players" as well. The ability to communicate what is going on in their games as well as to focus all their energies on a specific game altering objective in fun and innovative ways represent things that we hope expand the enjoyment of that game just as much as they expand the players ability to beat the challnges that may be raised.

In general we may have shifted the average level of play of almost all players up by 1/2 to almost 1 full difficulty level though the participation in the QSC.
 
What I find most interesting about the QSC is that it forces you to think towards a fixed goal early in the game. This type of focused approach can only help your game to improve. Before the QSC I never decided on my victory condition until I was well in the "wrap up" phase of the game. Now I start thinking about it before my first move. It may change once I see the map, but it is a much more focused path than what it used to be.

Congratulations to all of the players, both at the top level and to those who feel that they have improved their game at any level.:beer: :goodjob:
 
@Control Freak: :lol: Yeah my games have really improved because of my playing SGs with Lee. Hope Lee continues to play GOTM and the SGs it is always good fun to see how your SG partners fair in the GOTM and QSC. Hope this month gets even more SG players interested. Maybe some day I will hit the top ten but then again I am sure my Early start will not hold up once the GOTM results come out.
 
Originally posted by Moonsinger
Wow, I'm moving up to #23 this month (only because DaveMcW didn't submit; thanks Dave).

Actually I did submit, I'm just 16 ranks below you. :)

I didn't care about QSC score in this game, and it shows. I avoided contacting the second continent as long as possible to keep my monopoly techs more expensive for them. I spent 500 shields on wonders which only count for 200 points. I played 95% of the QSC as a 4CC, which is great for production but lousy for score. I submitted with 10 unhappy people because I think playing with the slider at 1000BC is silly.
 
It's really nice to see that most of new players and the students are doing very well and some of them begin to surpass their own teachers. :goodjob:

Sorry DaveMcW, I don't know why I didn't see your name.:(
 
Dave,

You also begin working on you specific victory condition 43 turns before 4000bc.

I can open your QSC and see that you are 350% focused on only one objective (which is admirable and typical of your style).

In some cases you are sacrificing three or four hundred points of power to gain two or three turns toward beating your best date objective.

I will be interested to see if you feel that there were some scoring elements and power elements that you may have been able to drive even higher within the limits of OCN impact on your number two city (which was perfectly placed IMNSHO).

Great game for you as well. :goodjob:
 
Originally posted by Xevious
Still need to work on the settler factory thing, but I'm getting there.

If you want to see a master developing a settler factory, you should look at the Timeline for SirPleb's game in QSC 17 Carthage. He detailed every move he made and why he made them. It really helped me understand how sharing resources between cities can improve your game.

Hopefully it will really help me in GOTM 20 where I used his style of play to get off to a good start.
 
Well, I got 67 0f 98, still in top half. Not so bad considering I didn't irrigate that game square.
:cry:

I did build a few temples. I was worried about Brennus' close capital. I figured I could finish expanding northward at a slower rate. That decision did cause one war, but probably did not affect Ceasar's despotic ways.

I wound up loosing the space race. Tech went so fast I couldn't finish off Hannibal with my Siphai. Maybe I could have taken out a few more infantry, but I didn't want to loose all my troops when the best defenders I had were muskets!

Congrats to the top dogs.

The results are great, and so fast too. Maybe I should read a timeline before continuing with QSC20.

One suggestion for the QSC summary - it would be nice to have a name to group lookup, along with the overall rank.
 
Well..I should get some kind of honor for dropping the most places in a QSC. GOTM18 I got 26th place. GOTM19 I get 64th place. I was in group 6. I KNEW not building a granary was going to be majorly dumb idea...and I regretted it the whole time. I will not make this mistake in 20 if it can at all be helped. I did go on to win via conquest, at a much later date than the pace setters. Ah well..
 
Once again we see the power of meeting other nations. The sooner the better. And if you can be the first one to do it, still even better. Contacts allow you all sorts of new strategies.

The interesting thing is the effect on QSC scores. I know that I made contact with Rome just after the 1000 BC mark. If that had happened before, it would have increased my score greatly to have the extra trading partner.

I also find it interesting to see how we end up in groups. I got group 7, when I thought I was being a warmonger. Guess it's all in the perceptions.
 
jeffelammar,

Your game was one of those interesting games that fell right at the cut off point between Group5 and Group7. You and DaveMcW were both right at this dividing line where you had 11 or 12 units in the warrior/sword path with about 50% of them veteran. Your game was also the highest scoring game in that group 7.

You can really look at groups 5, 7, and 8 as sort of continuum of militray power focus with pnp_dredd in group 5 at one end of the spectrum and BadAndy in Group 8 at the opposite end of the spectrum.

You were already in the midst of using your 7 swordsmen to extract a heavy toll on Brennus and convert you military power into other forms.

The number that was being used to divide up the groups was:

warriors + swordsmen + veterans + decorated +elites
(plus selecting any one with 10 or more swordsmen out ther hacking away)

pnp_dredd's number was at 37 while yours and DaveMcw's were are 17 and 18 respectively.

Again the groupings are not absolute and it is OK if there is ome overlap since we want to look at common elements of teh groups instead of just individual games.
 
Alright!! Not only do I climb up into the top20, but I gain special recognition for my 'huge' ... group of friendly, sword-bearing 'cultural ambassadors.' :D (Tis a shame that Carthage was the 3rd civ on my continent; although I did appreciate the 2 wonders Hannibal built for me!)

Congrats to all, and thanks (once again!!) for the great work done by the GOTM staff!
 
Originally posted by Mark Cutt
I noticed that all the top 4 players had already met all the other civs at 1000bc.
Is this a coincidence or the score system gives a high premium to the players who meets many civs?

I think this has the same problems that the pyramiding tech points did, obviously the contacts have value, but there is no way that an increasing value makes sense. I haven't looked too deeply at the other games, but getting the other island contacts early can make a big difference, but I expect only on a linear scale.
This is another one of those things that shows more in how you use it then in simply having it.


Originally posted by rabies
I KNEW not building a granary was going to be majorly dumb idea...and I regretted it the whole time. I will not make this mistake in 20 if it can at all be helped. I did go on to win via conquest, at a much later date than the pace setters. Ah well..

I didn't build any granaries and I don't usually consider them essential to success, 60s is a pretty large commitment in the early game. Since this isn't a gotm20 strategy thread I won't comment on any strategy except to say that in a diety game it could be that by the time you've built the granary you could end up with no space left in which to expand.
 
Cracker,
Could you enlighten us on some of the 'General Assess' words you used in the spreadsheet? I see 'flood' 'bonus' 'xxx' and a couple other (mostly self explanitory) ones.

..and once again, I'd like to thank you/your team for taking the time to put these spreadsheets together. I love looking through them.

Smirk,
Would it be smarter (on more difficult levels) to build a settler from the capital first..and then a granary? I am toying with this idea on gotm20 (have not started yet).
 
a couple of players seemed to be using an aggressive settle flood strategy and that is where the "flood" note came from.

The "xxx" was just a marker that in my mind could have been "moonshine" or "rat poison" or something to indicate a first reaction to seeing the footprint of those games. (hopefully no one will take those personally). When you open the games and look at them it is sort of an out of body experience. You try to ignore anything about the player and in many ways the owner of the game is anonymous while the beans are being counted.

But some games have a signature style to them that is either good or bad. When you open Bamspeedy of Creepster's games you can usually say "Oh, that's Bamspeedy or Creepster just by the city placement density that they use in many games."
Some of the markers in the notes where initially to identify things that looked like really bad worker and city placement decisions but that train of thought was abandoned.

The "Bonus" or "Sword Bonus" markers were for games that had recently mass upgraded swords and then where actively in the process of getting them into position to do something powerful. This is the first game where we have seen a number of players actively doing this well because often players will time the swordsmen rush to fall in the 800-700bc time frame. (I think BillChin, TedJackson, Smirk, BlackHawk, Moonsinger, and JonathonValjean were on this slightly later timeline. If we could see that the swords were upgraded and then sent immediately into battle, there was a cash equalization bonus added to the "partial credit" scoring line.
 
The QSC chart seems incorrect for my game (I'm in group 1). It says I had 5 granaries, which isn't right. I did have 5 libraries, which aren't listed. Apparently, building libraries was so unusual that it confused someone who was preparing the charts.
 
DDJ

I think there's something wacky, because I'm listed in grp 2 as a temple builder, and I built none - but did build libraries!

Not only has that put me in the wrong group, but also has artificially inflated my score, since I think you get more points for the more expensive temples. And I thought I had done so well....:(
 
Originally posted by DaveMcW
I submitted with 10 unhappy people because I think playing with the slider at 1000BC is silly.

This seems silly to me, too. I think the QSC score should count all citizens the same, because obviously anyone can increase luxuries to 100% just before they submit, just to increase the score.
Cracker, any reason not to do this?

I also notice that the Pyramids are huge in the QSC score, because they give 60 points per city (i.e., you get the score for the granary in every city you own). This seems excessive, since the granaries in non-core cities are worth less (you wouldn't build them if they weren't free).

Just some minor nitpicks with the scoring, in case anyone is considering adjustments.
 
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