question about deity marathon barbs

[Dwisetiger]

The purpose of the game I started was to get to use modern military a lot. I hardly ever use them. I'm an emp/imm lvl player but if I go slower and actually pay attention to diplomacy I can play better. So I started a deity marathon game with SB huge/contiments/only time or conquest. Some might consider this a form of torture I guess. I thought SB would be a great leader given the settings.

Anyway, with those settings of course barbs are terrible. I would love to build the great wall and pyramids. I have stone and a ton of trees. I can't defend with just warriors so I go mining/BW for dogs. No hunting so archery is a big detour. Here's the thing, when the barbs start coming, they walk right past my dogs and pillage. I could handle the waves of barbs if I was able to camp on forested hills, but I have to either go on the attack or protect every improvement plus the city. Is there something different about barbs on deity? Or are the dogs on hills just too strong and they don't bother? I have to build so many dogs that the GW is a no go. It may be a no go anyway since it I have the wrong starting techs and it gets finished before I get the wheel.

Looking at the intended purpose, do you think this type of game is best? Any suggestions about how to play this type of game?


edit
Maybe I should just worldbuild myself some stuff. I kinda hate to do that and don't really know how. But it may be the best course since what I care about is lots of late game warfare.

 

[iggymnrr]

I can't help out much with the diety part. But turning barbs off instead of using the WB would be a better way to go, at least giving you a chance to get to later warfare honestly.

 

[Dwisetiger]

I can't help out much with the diety part. But turning barbs off instead of using the WB would be a better way to go, at least giving you a chance to get to later warfare honestly.

Yeah considered that. I wonder if the barbs speed up the ai with extra cities and gg ponts or slow it down.

Maybe HC would be better with quechas out of gate but I'd prefer not to be financial.

 

[Agramon]

Maybe you should use china. They are protective and industrious. ;-)

 

[vranasm]

i dont play deity and certainly am not immortal player... but I am confused somewhat with the beeline for archery?

why not build just dogs especially when theyr resourceless? Are the free drill+CG promo that important against barbs?

 

[Casi]

SB (if you mean sitting bull as i think) is a bad leader for any form of game, but that's just my opinion. Prolly even more for a huge deity map...how can you not take a financial leader here?
And you describe it yourself, the barbs eat you, could have avoided that for example with HC.
He is considered overpowered by many, which he prolly indeed is, but still better than worldbuilder or the...sorry...weird torture you put on yourself here =p

 

[RD-BH]

Spawnbust and expand.
On deity there is precious little time to build cities.
The AI expands so fast the barbs won't be around very long.

[edit]
Doh! I just realized you said marathon.
Nevermind
[end_edit]

 

[DaveMcW]

If lategame warfare is your goal, do a custom game in a late era.

 

[Duckweed]

Replies are in bold.

The purpose of the game I started was to get to use modern military a lot. I hardly ever use them. I'm an emp/imm lvl player but if I go slower and actually pay attention to diplomacy I can play better. So I started a deity marathon game with SB huge/contiments/only time or conquest. Some might consider this a form of torture I guess. I thought SB would be a great leader given the settings.

Most standard deity games are sufficient for your goal -- you often need modern units to close the game if you aim for domination or conquest win. Huge map is probably tougher than normal standard map even with the marathon speed benefit. SB is only a good leader to fight deity barbarian, but a great leader to fight deity early DOW. Inca, Persian and Egypt with horse in capital are real great leaders to fight barbarians.

Anyway, with those settings of course barbs are terrible. I would love to build the great wall and pyramids. I have stone and a ton of trees. I can't defend with just warriors so I go mining/BW for dogs. No hunting so archery is a big detour. Here's the thing, when the barbs start coming, they walk right past my dogs and pillage. I could handle the waves of barbs if I was able to camp on forested hills, but I have to either go on the attack or protect every improvement plus the city. Is there something different about barbs on deity? Or are the dogs on hills just too strong and they don't bother? I have to build so many dogs that the GW is a no go. It may be a no go anyway since it I have the wrong starting techs and it gets finished before I get the wheel.

TGW is usually a terrible wonder to build, especially in deity. Not only because of the GSpy pollution, but also because that you are very possible to lose it. The normal TGW completion date of AI in deity is 2500BC~3000BC, and human player is very hard to grab it before 2500BC. Barbarian units will go for pillage if they find the battle odd is hopeless, so you have to attack to protect your improvement. Combining with fogbusting (to reduce the number of spawned barbarian), you should be able to handle them with a few dogs.

 

[goodolarchie]

I don't quite understand the desire to practice modern warfare on diety if the barbs are already calling the shots.

 

[Fleme]

Deity Marathon barbarians are unforgiving and unrelenting. While my deity games are limited in number and shoddy in quality, I'm an exclusive Marathon player and the example I have of the brutality of the barbarians relates to the last finished Co-op da Whoop game with me and Silu, namely Dario (Darius/Joao). Silu pretty much died in that game due to heavy barbarian activity and the pressure they put on was no joke.

Great Wall is a gamble you will not win unless you start with Qin (favorable techs, traits) and are settled on stone or just simply have a easily defensible position but all in all the AI prioritizes it and you get marginal returns from the wonder at any rate. Not to mention the fact that you're setting yourself up with an unfavorable leader in terms of how lategame deity goes.

Also, in my experience, again as a Marathon player with a couple deity games under co-op is that every map will feature modern warfare. If you're tremendously lucky you can punch through in the rifle era through a few unprepared AI's but generally speaking you'll be seeing magic rifles pop up just as you're casually making your way towards that juicy longbowman defended nation (or as we once saw it, magic infantries. That is from Longbowman to assembly line to rifling in the span of 5 turns)

And to further a point on marathon warfare against deities on large maps. Well, Dario was pretty much the last hurrah for us as far as civ goes. It's been months and I'm still reeling from that game because of how tremendously straining the game got towards the end. 5 waves of nuclear warfare and reducing the world to desert and 25+ hours of gameplay and ending up with the feeling that there's no winner here is something that really is as arduous as it sounds.

If you want a leader who remains competitive go for some of the more cookie ones. Bull is bad in any sort of game save for aw (fanbois shoo) and for a game in which you wanna keep up the pace with the AI's, choose an economical leader even if you have war in mind. Darius, HC, Elizabeth, Hatshepsut, Hannibal, Mehmed, Gandhi... heck, Even Washington would do well for your format and maybe you'd even see a use for the Marines (highly unlikely though).

Edit: To further a point, take a look at the game I'm talking about to see it all. It has just the early barb activity you're looking for and has the late warring you're after.

 

[Tyrael]

Marathon barbs are a bigger problem than on other speeds on any difficulty. Barbs have the same chance to spawn every turn on all levels quick to marathon, but you take much longer to build units. This means that the ratio of barbs to your units goes way up. You're also a lot more likely to get declared on, since the AI rolls for war each turn and there are more turns.

The odds of you surviving early on marathon are a good deal lower than on faster speeds.