Question on heaven...

[King Flevance]

I already figured most of that post would be met with sarcasm and jokes. Being of a religious position of life mixed with visiting OT, I have become accustomed as to what to expect.

As to God's presence, I am sure you have an image or something in your mind that distinguishes Him from other thoughts. Like when I say "car" you have an image attached to it. That is if you have a photographic thought process. If not I am sure you use values to thoughts in one manner and the idea of the Christian God has an impression in your mind unique to him, otherwise you wouldn't ever know what to think when people mention Him.

Finally, Jesus = coincidence when you do not wish to believe him and His miracles. Coincidence is a made up idea because people worry about the idea that "everything happens for a reason" if they do not know what that reason is. For example, seeing your ex in a supermarket is not a coincidence, it simply odds. Seeing your ex at the exact time that you are thinking about him/her is marked as a "Coincidence". Mainly if you do not think about your ex that often.

Now, in a situation like that, I believe that it happened for a reason. Not that you should start dating again neccessarily but for some reason odds are so slim of that exact scenario playing out that I believe it happened for some reason. But if you would rather feel more comfortable with life having no meaning, you would pass it off as a coincidence and give it no more thought.

EDIT: this last part sounded really.... New Age. I don't believe in soul mates or anything like that this is simply a sample "coincidence".

 

[Perfection]

I already figured most of that post would be met with sarcasm and jokes. Being of a religious position of life mixed with visiting OT, I have become accustomed as to what to expect.

I'm not that sarcast, more confused as to what you're trying to get across.

As to God's presence, I am sure you have an image or something in your mind that distinguishes Him from other thoughts. Like when I say "car" you have an image attached to it. That is if you have a photographic thought process. If not I am sure you use values to thoughts in one manner and the idea of the Christian God has an impression in your mind unique to him, otherwise you wouldn't ever know what to think when people mention Him.

So you're saying I should ask a mental immage?

 

[King Flevance]

So you're saying I should ask a mental immage?

Well, its like this. When people have others close to them pass away sometimes they talk to them even though they are dead. Same basic principle. You just picture them in your mind and talk to them. Pictuing them in your mind may not even be neccessary. I do it because it sems more like a conversation that way. But sometimes I do not have a mental image of them in my head. Alot of my prayers to Jesus I am relaying evaluations I have made to him about life. This requires using my brain so I hav a hard time keeping an image of him in my head but Jesus and God have a "feeling" now. That probably maks it sound even weirder.

 

[Perfection]

So because I can hold imagined conversations with God, God exists?

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm not that sarcast, more confused as to what you're trying to get across.
So you're saying I should ask a mental immage?

The problem is that god as an abstract concept is difficult to relate to. Physical manifestations of god are much easier for people to connect with. So either we imbue god-like characteristics into people or objects or god makes him/herself known through human or other forms. Evangelical christians invoke the image of Jesus as their connection to God. It provides a way to focus one's attention and they would say it is transformative. Belief in god is all about focusing one's "gaze" upon something other than ones self. Many catholics will focus on Mary. Those who follow Krishna Consciousness practices will use chanting (hare krishna) to keep their focus.

And the sufis used dancing!

 

[King Flevance]

So because I can hold imagined conversations with God, God exists?

No, there usually isn't a "conversation" as that involves feedback to the initial speaker. A prayer is meant like an email that instantaneously arrives at God sort of. You talk, he listens. Jesus only "speaks" in my prayers by having a bible verse pop in my head at the time of discussing an issue that is related.

As for meaning this is some kind of proof, all I can say is I have recieved my proof. This does not help you but the saving of your soul is a personal issue between yourself and God. No one can make you believe anything. Earth will never prove God exists because it is His will. The approach the world has is that He does not exist because we haven't proven it. However, we have not proven otherwise, either. So does He exist until proven that he doesn't? or does He not exist until proven He does? One seems just as foolish as the next if you looked at it from an unbiased opinion. I think that is why alot of people claim agnostic. This is an uncertainty of both aspects.

 

[warpus]

As to God's presence, I am sure you have an image or something in your mind that distinguishes Him from other thoughts. Like when I say "car" you have an image attached to it. That is if you have a photographic thought process. If not I am sure you use values to thoughts in one manner and the idea of the Christian God has an impression in your mind unique to him, otherwise you wouldn't ever know what to think when people mention Him.

Yeah, that's how the human mind works. Each idea you're exposed to (and remember) gets associated with an image, sometimes a smell, sometimes a sound, etc. So when somebody says "car", I might picture a car, when you say "garlic", i might associate that with a garlicy smell, when you say "God" I might picture a guy with a long white beard sitting in the clouds, when you say "Spock" I picture a guy with pointy ears, and when you say "Xenu" I picture Tom Cruise.

So what?

Finally, Jesus = coincidence when you do not wish to believe him and His miracles. Coincidence is a made up idea because people worry about the idea that "everything happens for a reason" if they do not know what that reason is. For example, seeing your ex in a supermarket is not a coincidence, it simply odds. Seeing your ex at the exact time that you are thinking about him/her is marked as a "Coincidence". Mainly if you do not think about your ex that often.

Now, in a situation like that, I believe that it happened for a reason. Not that you should start dating again neccessarily but for some reason odds are so slim of that exact scenario playing out that I believe it happened for some reason. But if you would rather feel more comfortable with life having no meaning, you would pass it off as a coincidence and give it no more thought.

I think you're underestimating just how complex this world is. Strange/coincidental things are bound to happen, from time to time, to everyone. It's just a matter of statistics and probability.

Now I could easily attribute the coincidences that happen to me to a mystical figure of some sort, such as Zeus, Jesus, Buddha, Vishnu, or whatever.. but I prefer to stick to reality - these things are bound to happen... and it might feel weird when it does, but it doesn't mean that the supernatural is involved.

 

[Perfection]

No, there usually isn't a "conversation" as that involves feedback to the initial speaker. A prayer is meant like an email that instantaneously arrives at God sort of. You talk, he listens. Jesus only "speaks" in my prayers by having a bible verse pop in my head at the time of discussing an issue that is related.

As for meaning this is some kind of proof, all I can say is I have recieved my proof. This does not help you but the saving of your soul is a personal issue between yourself and God. No one can make you believe anything. Earth will never prove God exists because it is His will. The approach the world has is that He does not exist because we haven't proven it. However, we have not proven otherwise, either. So does He exist until proven that he doesn't? or does He not exist until proven He does? One seems just as foolish as the next if you looked at it from an unbiased opinion. I think that is why alot of people claim agnostic. This is an uncertainty of both aspects.

Well, I just don't see it having properties that differ from that of fictional characters.

 

[King Flevance]

Yeah, that's how the human mind works. Each idea you're exposed to (and remember) gets associated with an image, sometimes a smell, sometimes a sound, etc. So when somebody says "car", I might picture a car, when you say "garlic", i might associate that with a garlicy smell, when you say "God" I might picture a guy with a long white beard sitting in the clouds, when you say "Spock" I picture a guy with pointy ears, and when you say "Xenu" I picture Tom Cruise.

So what?

I was merely answering a semi-question in regards to my views. Where perfection asked "how can you go to soemthing you don't believe in?" And I responded with "You use a mental tag basically." WHich he responded to not understanding the concept. I wasn't trying to prove any point. I was just expanding on a previous statement.

BTW I always think of Tom Cruise when someone says Xenu too. I think most veryone does by now.

I think you're underestimating just how complex this world is. Strange/coincidental things are bound to happen, from time to time, to everyone. It's just a matter of statistics and probability.

Now I could easily attribute the coincidences that happen to me to a mystical figure of some sort, such as Zeus, Jesus, Buddha, Vishnu, or whatever.. but I prefer to stick to reality - these things are bound to happen... and it might feel weird when it does, but it doesn't mean that the supernatural is involved.

To the contrary I think my version of viewing it makes the world even more complex than this perspective. If there was no God I would see the world as a LOT less complex for many reasons. This is also the reason I mentioned that simply running into an ex at the supermarket means chance. Running into them at the EXACT moment you were thinking about them when you do not think about them often is not chance. These odds are so small because of the lack of times you think about them.

Now even though I believe everything happens for a reason, I still refer alot of times to these situations as being "coincidences". But not all "coincidences" are good things there are bad coincidenses as well. It really depends on how you react to the situation. These are merely milestones on spiritual exploration is all. Its like on some of the VGs out there that have "random events" pop up. You get multiple choices to pick from and each one has different outcomes. God is basically putting a pop up box in your life. "will you do A B C or D" in response to seeing your ex at this particular moment? Only its more like an essay question in real life. As whacky as that description sounds its the best I can do.

As for who it is attributed to, you would know if following a path that has provided proof of its existance. It would seem almost extremely obvious. But like I said it depends on if you think things happen for a reason or if life has no meaning. I personally have had my life provide me with the idea that life has a multitude of purposes.

EDIT: @ Perfection - that is nothing I or anyone else can influence or help with. That is an internal issue between yourself and your spirituality. Whatever it may be.

 

[greenpeace]

Now I could easily attribute the coincidences that happen to me to a mystical figure of some sort, such as Zeus, Jesus, Buddha, Vishnu, or whatever.. but I prefer to stick to reality - these things are bound to happen... and it might feel weird when it does, but it doesn't mean that the supernatural is involved.

Buddha isn't a god and isn't a mystical figure. He was a real person who's teachings I and other Buddhists follow.

 

[Birdjaguar]

but I prefer to stick to reality

And exactly what is that reality?

 

[Perfection]

EDIT: @ Perfection - that is nothing I or anyone else can influence or help with. That is an internal issue between yourself and your spirituality. Whatever it may be.

Discovering God is person dependant? Then how can you say it is universal instead of some figment of your imagination?

 

[greenpeace]

This does not help you but the saving of your soul is a personal issue between yourself and God.

I find that offensive. I am Buddhist and you are saying that my way of purifing my soul is completly wrong. In other words, it would be like me telling you that Christianity is complete nonsense, and saying it as though it were fact.

 

[warpus]

Buddha isn't a god and isn't a mystical figure. He was a real person who's teachings I and other Buddhists follow.

I apologize for lumping him in with actual mystical figures.

And exactly what is that reality?

That the law of probabilities ensures that people will experience unexplained coincidences. This does not require the supernatural.

 

[King Flevance]

Discovering God is person dependant? Then how can you say it is universal instead of some figment of your imagination?

In the teachings of Jesus and the bible, it tells me it is universal. It is person dependant as well like what was discussed earlier in the thread a page or two back concerning freewill. You can choose to follow it or you may choose not to, this is how it is person dependant.

I will say that there is something different in regards to the jewish. These are God's chosen people and there is a cross reference there. So basically, there is a universal truth behind all of this in my belief system. Although, I don't know what it is and I can't say for sure how each religion is regarded to the Lord. I know where my path is, and that is all.

 

[greenpeace]

that sounds a little ignorant to me.

 

[King Flevance]

that sounds a little ignorant to me.

How so? If you cannot seriously give the idea of God's existance merit and an honest shot you will never know. And this is His fault? You can't pray to Him and tell him he has 5 minutes to reveal himself like the aetheist teacher in that absurd story a while ago. He is your God, not your puppet. He will reveal Himself on his time or when he feels you are honestly wanting Him to show himself.

There is a writing in the bible, I am not sure what passage it is or anything maybe another christian can help me out here. But a wealthy man walked up to Jesus and said "What may I do to follow you? I will do anything, just name it." Then Jesus replied "Go, sell all your personal possessions to charity. Make it so that you do not own 1 thing. Then return to me." The man in question never did. Jesus never asked anyone else to do this. The reason he told this man that he must do this to follow him is because he could see that the man was not being honest. Jesus knew this man would not sell everything he had to follow Jesus. God knows when your wanting Him to be your puppet and when your serious. Why should He bother revealing Himself if you will only pass it off as a coincidence?

 

[greenpeace]

I was mentioning the fact that you stick to your own path and ignore others.

 

[Perfection]

You can choose to follow it or you may choose not to, this is how it is person dependant.

Well, I chose to follow it for a good long time, and got jack-squat.

 

[King Flevance]

I was mentioning the fact that you stick to your own path and ignore others.

I do not ignore others. I do not know what the Lord thinks of them is what I said. I find alot of Buddha's teachings very intrigueing and very parrallel to many christian beliefs. I use Buddhism aspects in my own life although I do not follow that path. I respect the jewish faith because that is God's people. The simple fact is though, that I know the current path I am on is the right one. It may not seem like the right one for you, but I know it is the right one for me.

I can not tell you where your path is. It took me years to find mine. Just as you cannot tell me where my path as you have to find yours. I guess the only way you could say that I "ignore" others is that when it comes to other people I do not shove my faith down their throat. I let them make their own peace with God or whatever path they take. Their soul is in their hands alone, not mine or anyone elses.

Well, I chose to follow it for a good long time, and got jack-squat.

The reward for following Jesus does not come on earth always. It is a sacrifice one makes to follow him.