Questions about C2C history and biggest features, that were made.

[raxo2222]

How did you updated mod before SVN was started? (like v13)
At what version C2C got its own forums?
Was there something between RoM:AND and C2C?

Were there any features, that were developed so long, so they got released 10-15 C2C releases later?
I know that Nomadic Start and Multimaps are big features.
How often C2C release comes out in average?

BTW I still remember seeing various stuff like ATOM modmod in RoM forums.
Also I remember coming back to RoM mod... seeing, that its dead for year or something already.
I didn't knew about C2C back then.

Half serious question: how much time it will take to 100th release of C2C?

 

[Yudishtira]

How often C2C release comes out in average?

This year it averages one version every 1.5/1.6 months... (Lazy arithmetic suggests v100 comes out approx. Christmas 2021 )

 

[raxo2222]

This year it averages one version every 1.5/1.6 months... (Lazy arithmetic suggests v100 comes out approx. Christmas 2021 )

Nice
From SVN thread, I know, that V14 (earliest, I could find) was released on 16th July 2011.
V32 was released on 13rd August 2013.
So there were 18 releases in 2 years and 4 weeks. That gives us 25 months.
So for me it comes about 1.39 months / release.
68 releases*1.39 gives us about 94.5 months (7 years, 10 months and 2 weeks) and to reach 100th release.
So for me it comes out 28th June 2021 (ehh I should leave June/July 2021 at most, but... ). (picked V32 release date).
So with my calculations it may come out in middle of 2021 year - just for start of vacations.
I know, that this site may be blown up or something, thats why my question is half-serious XD

I wonder if someone remembers or is written, that when V1 or something got released XD

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well in the beginning it was just basically SO, DH and I. Which meant SO kept the main mod and DH and I mostly kept to our own mod folders. When done we would post our mods and SO would combine them and then post a new release. Thus stuff was slow, very limited in who edited what and we really could not see the big picture until releases.

You also have to remember that saves were not compatible with previous versions so any testing had to be done in brand new games. Thus having an SVN and having save compatibility was key. I am so glad the other joined the team.

This also might help you ...

History of C2C
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=501584

 

[raxo2222]

Well in the beginning it was just basically SO, DH and I. Which meant SO kept the main mod and DH and I mostly kept to our own mod folders. When done we would post our mods and SO would combine them and then post a new release. Thus stuff was slow, very limited in who edited what and we really could not see the big picture until releases.

You also have to remember that saves were not compatible with previous versions so any testing had to be done in brand new games. Thus having an SVN and having save compatibility was key. I am so glad the other joined the team.

This also might help you ...

History of C2C
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=501584

Nice to know

Also what happened to AND Ideology Civics?
Did they got removed in some C2C release?
(I noticed that loooong ago but didn't asked about it )

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ideology Civics? Could you give an example?

We first started with AND's civics; Power, Military, Economics, Society, Welfare and Religion. Then I added in Education, Garbage, Agriculture, Immigration and Language. We also had for a short time a tax-like system but it did not work out so it was removed. And then later CIVPlayer8 split up power into Power, Government and Rule. Then added Currency and Labor. Also DH removed Slavery as a civic and made it a "worldview". There also has been talk of adding Electricity and Housing as new civic categories.

C2C - Civics Discussion Thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=436363

 

[raxo2222]

Ideology Civics? Could you give an example?

We first started with AND's civics; Power, Military, Economics, Society, Welfare and Religion. Then I added in Education, Garbage, Agriculture, Immigration and Language. We also had for a short time a tax-like system but it did not work out so it was removed. And then later CIVPlayer8 split up power into Power, Government and Rule. Then added Currency and Labor. Also DH removed Slavery as a civic and made it a "worldview". There also has been talk of adding Electricity and Housing as new civic categories.

C2C - Civics Discussion Thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=436363

Like Socialism, Egalitarianism, Consumption, Objectivism, Individualism, Centrism, (they were options under Ideology civic) I think there were one or two more of them.
I think there was Future civics, but it looks like it got disassembled and reused.

Well... maybe I was playing RoM:AND AFTER C2C was released... and you used AND (pun not intended) version, that didn't had Ideology civics.
EDIT: Looks like they were since 2009: (Ideology Civics)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=344523
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=8694549&postcount=7

(AND Bug Report thread. Hmm... did someone annihilated these in pre SVN era?)
There are no traces of it in C2C...

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yeah I think it was taken out before C2C was formed. Afforess took out a LOT of stuff inducing stuff I had requested be in it. Which is why I started HAND (Hydro's A New Dawn) which was a mod that had all the mods Afforess made for me plus some of my own. Then I left the community for the summer and came back to find SO working on Prehistoric NWA with DH. Then asked to join him with my HAND mod which became C2C.

Afforess' "Less is More" mantra is what got me to want to make a "More is More" mod. And really I felt betrayed when Afforess just kicked all my stuff out of AND and told me that he would not continue anything of mine to it any more.

Which is why when joining StrategyOnly I made it very clear that I wanted to have creative freedom and all that stuff. Which he said sure! Note that since then Afforess has said he was glad I was still moddng and was able to build a team to make all those ideas I use to bug him about.

And really without him I would have never learned to mod.

Looking back I am actually glad I split off from AND instead of saying taking it over. Because being C2C we really had the freedom to do what we wanted without stepping on the history and name of AND. AND is that "less is more" kind of mod and its only stepping back I understand what Afforess wanted. C2C is now its own separate type of mod and while it stands on the shoulders of giants like Afforess and Zappara we as a team have earned own place in CFC's modding heroes.

We have such a great team and have done so much more than I would have imagined. I feel so lucky to be part of this and to work with such talented and creative people.

 

[raxo2222]

Nice read
I wish I had good computer, like now I have, since when I first noticed RoM (I think 2.6 or 2.7 it was back them).
Only because of it I wasn't keeping eye on RoM/AND/C2C things regularly.

Does Afforens lurks into C2C sometimes?
Or he just keeps developing AND?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Once and awhile he will stop by but for the most part he stays over at AND now that they brought it back from the dead.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Nice read
I wish I had good computer, like now I have, since when I first noticed RoM (I think 2.6 or 2.7 it was back them).
Only because of it I wasn't keeping eye on RoM/AND/C2C things regularly.

Does Afforens lurks into C2C sometimes?
Or he just keeps developing AND?

Afforess does not "actively" Mod AND anymore. He has handed control over to 45*38'N. He does pop in from time to time to say Hi and chime in on a subject, but that's the extent of his activity. At the age of 23 and just finishing College he just doesn't have the time or desire for Modding anymore. RL's call is heavy upon him, to find his place in the world. Seems like most "young genius" modders do that, move on with RL. I used to keep in contact with him but that is basically gone too.

JosEPh

 

[raxo2222]

Afforess does not "actively" Mod AND anymore. He has handed control over to 45*38'N. He does pop in from time to time to say Hi and chime in on a subject, but that's the extent of his activity. At the age of 23 and just finishing College he just doesn't have the time or desire for Modding anymore. RL's call is heavy upon him, to find his place in the world. Seems like most "young genius" modders do that, move on with RL. I used to keep in contact with him but that is basically gone too.

JosEPh

Nice to know, he also moved to modding Minecraft (as in his signature).
He (and his fairly large team) develops Spoutcraft.
---

What are now largest actively developed projects in C2C now?
Multimaps and Nomandic Start is still in planning stages, from what I heard, (or rather read ).

 

[Il Principe]

I am not on the team, but I would say current big undertakings are fleshing out the whole transhuman era, Thunderbirds ongoing work on combat and bringing AI and performance up to speed by Koshling.

 

[raxo2222]

I am not on the team, but I would say current big undertakings are fleshing out the whole transhuman era, Thunderbirds ongoing work on combat and bringing AI and performance up to speed by Koshling.

Well, I know about these projects, but I meant other ones

 

[Thunderbrd]

Developing Leaders is also an ongoing major project...

 

[raxo2222]

Developing Leaders is also an ongoing major project...

o.o I thought its pretty much finished... so how final results will look?

Something like you can go spread over level I traits or you can go to Level X of single trait or in-between?

 

[Thunderbrd]

We are still working towards having traits that can upgrade to improved versions of themselves. I still have a number of tags to develop for further trait developments. And eventually I'll be making a full (rather prolific) set of traits that may stand as an optional traits set. I've been diverted from that project for a bit to tackle some of the combat mod matters but I could buzz back over to further developments there at some point here.

One thing that may end up being a necessary hinge for both combat mod and developing leaders is the leaderhead archetype mechanism. I've begun to see where the ai for the combat mod could use some added leader personality tags and I wouldn't want to add those without the archetype method being in place so that may become another critical project here soon that would have large implications on both projects.

There's also a generic categorization project that will support both of those projects and many other projects on other modder's plates. That should be in development very soon.

One minutae of detail on the current status of the combat mod project: I'm about to implement a unit recalculation mechanism so that our units update to current assets like our cities do when we recalculate after an update to our files. Currently units don't update in this process so if they have a promo that changed since they took it they aren't getting the benefits or new penalties associated with those changes (only the ones to take the promotion after the change would be.) The Combat Class modifiers have prompted me to believe it will be important to have this sort of recalc system in place soon.

 

[raxo2222]

Sounds like giant project, thats why I love this mod.
And what generic categorization will do?
It will be used to categorize buildings and units ?
Also in civipedia, by era/function too or its different thing?

Also how many times leaders will be able to level up during game?
Leader experience will consist from only culture, or multiple sources, like highest civilization score + total culture (with some modifiers here and there, as they can deviate orders of magnitude from each other)?

Sounds bit RPG-y and I like that genre BTW

 

[Thunderbrd]

Generic Categorization will allow us to define generic categories and then apply those categories to any game object and as we go will enable tags to operate off of those categories. It's a big, loose, multi-purpose concept. DH wants to be able to categorize units along lines of presumed comparability rather than scientific accuracy - it will enable him to do that. I want to make it possible for buildings to be categorized in blocks that traits can modify city production values when building. Anywhere we want to group and categorize then interact with that category we can use this mechanism. I believe its kinda the way that 'special buildings, combat classes, special units' etc... should've been done in the first place but CCs do have some useful specific programming behind them. Anyhow, yes, I was hoping to have eras be categories that could be applied to all units/buildings so it could help us sort them in pedias etc... The mechanism again, will allow for ANY kind of categorizing to be applied to any game object and the categorization can cross object type (class) borders thus you can categorize buildings and units with common category definitions. And setting it up should be surprising simple... then we add to it with further utility as needed.

The final balance act on how many times leaders will be able to level up in a game is still up in the air a bit.

At the moment, only culture determines leader experience. This may change. One adjustment to that system still pending is that it will be scaled according to more factors than game speed, such as game difficulty as well.

 

[raxo2222]

Wow so Generic Categorization is sort of back-end infrastructure to support growing mod.