Quot Capita

[Ulysses81]

Seems like i'm a little late for suggestions...

Something that bothers me is that amidst all the different tanks and recon units that become available in the industrial/modern era it would be cool to have some variety in APCs too. If the AFV as it is now were available a bit earlier and maybe MechInf a bit later (additional prerequisite), there would be room for one more unit in between them, for example something like this: M113 by Snafusmith/GFO Anubis
Also, Infantry should be upgradable to APCs.

Well, judging from your current speed of modding there will probably be a next version before i can finish a game with this one

And one more thing: the CTDs i had a few weeks ago were very probably hardware related.

 

[RPG]

Did Geomodder's new cities make it in to QC v5.0?

 

[sourdiesel]

Wow that was fast! Can't wait to start a new game with the new version, but first gotta lose to big bad Justinian and scamper back to monarch..

And that is a great choice for trench infantry

 

[xchen08]

Just wondering for people who play with the revamped modern era, how well does it play, before I invest a couple hours into a game? I have concerns about whether it's a good idea to add that many more military techs in one era. There are 4 generations of tanks in just the modern era alone, and while it was that way in real life, do all these units actually get put to use? The first generation tanks didn't last a decade in real life, what kind of lifespan do they have in game?

I know I can just turn the module off, but it would be sad to miss out on something great just because I don't like the theory.

 

[sourdiesel]

There are 4 generations of tanks in just the modern era alone, and while it was that way in real life, do all these units actually get put to use?

Usually not all of them, gotta pick a few types each game, but there are added promotions (including one that makes units cheaper to upgrade) that will make it worthwhile to keep upgrading a elite units, and make them last longer. Some one-per-world units last a long time.

Units go obsolete at about the same rate as the unmodded game, maybe slightly faster for a few. The packed tech tree of the modern era means you'll have to specialize, and landfill backfilling is def a bad idea. I have only played two games through the modern era, so this is a limited opinion, but it seems there are some new synergies to exploit and additions to old ones. I'm glad to see the AI use the new stuff too, in my current game I was attacking another civ when Justinian DOW'ed and a Great Turkish Bombard popped up on my western border

 

[avain]

@Ulysses81: Thanks for the suggestion, but I feel as the modern era is filled pretty much to the top now...

@RPG: Yep, CC is in, even with the improved viking city texture by Walter Hawkwood

@sourdiesel: thanks

@xchen08: Hi, I put in great effort to spread the units and added quite some modern era text, so I'd expect that they should feel and play ok, but of course your mileage may vary. One thing I'd suggest is to play at least an Epic game, preferably the new Legendary speed that I introduced.

 

[Master Kodama]

This is truly a fantastic mod, but I have to agree with xchen08 that the proliferation of techs and units in the modern era is a bit daunting, if only in that it makes the rest of the tech tree green with envy at the attention and robust reinforcement it's clearly received. The modern era feels infinitely more historically detailed and accurate than most of the earlier eras, leaving them somewhat lacking in comparison.

Also, I have not found a way to simply "turn the module off" (modern era). I don't really want to turn it off altogether, but I am curious if it's even possible. Probably I will end up making my own modmod to strip down some of the techs/units from the modern era and beef up the other eras a little bit.

 

[os79]

Here I modded the unit from another modmodder of Rise of Mankind. I modded again to fit in QC; bascially getting art needed for it.
I'm using it but I'm happy to share with you .
Enjoy!

Stats for Ram:
2 Str
1 Move
Can only defend
Can't capture
3% bombard rate
Immune from siege weapons
Requires The Wheel and Masonry
Upgrades to catapult

 

[Martin79]

Will a saved game work with the new update?

 

[avain]

@Master Kodama: turning off the modern era is currently not so easy as I still did not finish the full WoC compliancy with it. But it's doable if you know what you are doing.

The reasons for this reworked modern era are:
- modern era was underrepresented in original Civ compared to it's significance and accelerated development as seen in real history
- messing with modern era is in a way more "safe" then messing with a finely balanced ancient/medieval era, it's easier to screw up there as the changes in e.g. ancient age get multiplied with the years to come/play
- there's really a massive amount of art available for the modern era (with more unit classes than available in BtS) lending itself to including those while retaining the needed (cultural) diversity between civs. The earlier ages are covered only to the point of existing unit classes, and I don't want to include sg that has no cultural diversity available in terms of art


@os79: thanks for sharing

@Martin79: Unfortunately I'd suppose it's not savegame compatible.

 

[os79]

@os79: thanks for sharing

No prob. I like your mod. Nice twist.

BTW, can you help me at your convenience and figure out how to mod Ram because it froze my game. It doesn't do that in Rise of Mankind. I already copied nif and kfm files from RoM for ram to Ram folder and make artdefines recognize them. That solved crash to desktop. But now, it froze my game in between turns early on. Maybe when another civ get that tech or build it.

If you have free time, see what is more to be done?
I will do my own checking as well and let you know what's up if I find anything before you do.

 

[os79]

I will do my own checking as well and let you know what's up if I find anything before you do.

I found the problem. When I got Masonry, it was fine. When I trained the Ram, it was fine. But the game froze when I tried to MOVE! it. Any idea why?
Thanks!

 

[Master Kodama]

I meant no criticism, so don't feel you have to defend your mod. I agree that the modern era was underrepresented (air units starting with WWII fighters bothered me in particular). It's just my personal feeling that the earlier eras need some adjustment as well, which as I said I'll probably do myself, since I'm rather picky as to what I think needs to be modified. That said, I should mention that the bombard and galleas are units I always add in anything that covers the middle ages and Renaissance, so kudos for adding them.

 

[RPG]

I meant no criticism, so don't feel you have to defend your mod. I agree that the modern era was underrepresented (air units starting with WWII fighters bothered me in particular). It's just my personal feeling that the earlier eras need some adjustment as well, which as I said I'll probably do myself, since I'm rather picky as to what I think needs to be modified. That said, I should mention that the bombard and galleas are units I always add in anything that covers the middle ages and Renaissance, so kudos for adding them.

I've always thought that the earlier eras could use maybe one additional tech each to slow the eras down just a little bit.

 

[avain]

@os79: could be that the animation is wrong, or sg. like that

@Master Kodama: even if you meant criticism, that's ok - I just wanted to share my thoughts and perhaps ignite a discussion or two, which is always a good thing

@RPG: Yes, that could still be acceptable I guess

 

[sourdiesel]

Some things I change when playing on legendary speed:

Spoiler :

In globaldefines.xml, peace treaties from 10 to 20 turns to make them more meaningful at a 1000 turn speed.

<DefineName>PEACE_TREATY_LENGTH</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>20</iDefineIntVal>


In revolutions.ini, under [Revolution], to scale Revolution events better (if you use them)

; Number of turns of no revs after different events
TurnsBetweenRevs = 12 (changed from 8)
DeniedRevs = 7 (from 5)
AcceptedTurns = 15 (from 10)
AcquiredTurns = 15 (from 10)
BuyoffTurns = 15 (from 10)


In the same file under [Revolution], you may also consider:

; Shows each city's revolution index info in the revolution popup
; This is considered debug info, but it is potentially useful for understanding the mechanics of the mod
ShowRevIndexInPopup = True (changed from False)

 

[Master Kodama]

I've always thought that the earlier eras could use maybe one additional tech each to slow the eras down just a little bit.

My thoughts exactly. I have a pretty standard way that I approach the earlier eras, and it's not a massive overhaul, mostly moving things around a little bit and adding a few techs (typically around one per era) to make things feel a little fuller and more realistic. Bumping Gunpowder (w/ bombards) back to the late Medieval and adding Firearms in that spot in the tech tree is an example of a small change that makes things feel infinitely more real to me.

((Stripping road-building from The Wheel and adding a separate tech that gives road-building is another change I like to make, since many New World civs built roads but never made use of wheeled vehicles. The Inca had some of the best and most extensive roads of their era, but never actually invented the wheel. ))

PS - Excellent avatar.

 

[RPG]

PS - Excellent avatar.

Thanks

Excellent examples. I trust that if avain does decide to add a tech or two per era, he'll do it well. Every addition he's made to this mod has been well thought out & has made the game far more interesting simply because choices can alter your strategy.

 

[xchen08]

My thoughts exactly. I have a pretty standard way that I approach the earlier eras, and it's not a massive overhaul, mostly moving things around a little bit and adding a few techs (typically around one per era) to make things feel a little fuller and more realistic. Bumping Gunpowder (w/ bombards) back to the late Medieval and adding Firearms in that spot in the tech tree is an example of a small change that makes things feel infinitely more real to me.

((Stripping road-building from The Wheel and adding a separate tech that gives road-building is another change I like to make, since many New World civs built roads but never made use of wheeled vehicles. The Inca had some of the best and most extensive roads of their era, but never actually invented the wheel. ))

PS - Excellent avatar.

I don't know... Making things more realistic is kind of a losing proposition with Civ. The early and mid-game are pretty carefully balanced. There are various strategies, gambits, slingshots, etc, that pretty much depend on the current balance. Pushing roadbuilding back, for example, affects how soon you can hook up resources, and thus rushes. It also unbalances strategies for Civs that start with The Wheel. I don't mind the changes to the modern era so much since games are generally decided by that point and some extra flavor doesn't hurt, but early game...

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Why does the game have to be like the unmodded one though? I think, rather than thinking in terms of balance, you should think in terms of fun.

Most civ players are history fans it seems, and I enjoy some historical accuracy in my civ games. Thats why i play it.

That said, I would like to see the earlier eras changed abit.

Avain you mentioned you didnt want to add things if they didnt have any cultural diversity. I think I may be able to provide a solution to this problem.

If you look at a popular mod thats out now, its the Stone age mod, and it has alot of good ideas.

Id be really epic, to start in a Stone Age, and have to build your civilization from the ground up. You would add more hunter-gatherer techs, a stone-axeman and tribal spearmen unit, as well as slingers and Atl-Atl(a mesoamerican term, but primitve javenlins were used for hunting and war), all the worker actions would be availible to research in this era. I'd maybe add some pre-galley/trireme ship here as well.

Ancient Age: This would begin where the Stone Age left off, basicly, its the Copper Age in the real world. City planning, masonry, organized religions, the Calender(should really be here rather than the Classical age). Basicly, its where the earliest known civilizations existed as, and the Mesoamericans and Incans later, with cities, roads, chariots, and later Horsemen. The standard Axeman, Swordsman, and Spearman, and archers would come into play here. Galleys would be availible once you researched a tech. Monarcy would have its start here.

Classical Age: The Bronze and Iron ages basicly. Not much could change here. But I would add perhaps, a heavy swordsman of some kind, as well as some sort of classical era cavalry, as a missing link between the Horseman and the Knight. You would also gain the Catapult. Early in this era, you would get the Trireme class of ship, perhaps with a naval warfare tech. I would maybe add a pristege "Siege Quinareme" unit for the first person to discover this tech. More forms of government would be interduced, direct representation for example.

Medival, Renaissse, you do a pretty good job with these already .

Basicly, in terms of new units:

Stone age:

Alt-Atl(upgrades to archer)
Spearman(Upgrades to Ancient Spearman)
Axeman(Upgrades to Ancient axeman, or swordsman)
Slinger(Upgrades to archer)

Ancient Age:

None

Classical age:

Heavy Swordsmen(upgrades from Axemen or Swordsmen)
"Heavy Horsemen"(upgrades from Horseman)
Siege Trireme(first to discover naval warfare gets one)

Basicly this provides both historical accuracy, and more fun I think. If you want graphics for the units I mentioned above, they are quite availible. . Look no further than the old graphics you used for some VD things, or even some BTS units that arent in the standard BtS game. You could use Extra for an example.

Also, why not add some more religions? Make them modular perhaps, and maybe have the option to choose which religions you have in your game. Be nice to have:

Nahualt/Mesoamericanism
Amun-Ra(Ancient Egyptian)
Aesir(Norse)
Hellenism(Greek/Roman religion).
Zorastrism

Look at the Extra mod for ideas for this as well. Again I'd ideally have a religion selector component for this. You could have the ones you wanted in game for variety or flavor, all selectable. If you wanted to have your own Ancient Medditarean flavored game, than you could have "Amun-Ra", Hellenism and maybe even Zorastrian religions in game for example.

Hey, maybe you could even add some more future buildings, and a "Future Religion", for the future age. rofl