R(hyes)ise and Fall

[ryanmusante]

Ironic isn't it that Firaxis chooses the name of their DLC after one of the most popular mods for Civilization from the past. Yet, there connection to the community is basically > /dev/null.

 

[Leoreth]

Honestly I think it's just another slap in the face after all the other ideas that they've stolen from RFC.

 

[ryanmusante]

Honestly I think it's just another slap in the face after all the other ideas that they've stolen from RFC.

I mean no disrespect to any current or former developers. I do seem to recall from early 2000's as a lurker seeing posts from Bryan Reynolds and Soren Johnson discussing mechanics and gameplay openly with people. I don't believe that should limited to the "glory" days of PC gaming because in many forums of modern day games, there are developers that are active to input given by players.

 

[Leoreth]

Oh I mean that full offense. Firaxis is not the company it once was, especially their Civ branch. They don't have people of the calibre of Bryan Reynolds and Soren Johnson leading their design anymore, i.e. people who understand that community outreach and integration are first priority and not an afterthought. You can tell by the level of attention they gave to aspects like modding and multiplayer and how the environment is with 5 and 6.

 

[ryanmusante]

You can tell by the level of attention they gave to aspects like modding and multiplayer and how the environment is with 5 and 6.

Actually, wouldn't the amount of material and name obviously taken by Firaxis from various community mods constitute breach of EULA? As they are making profit and not even doing the very least to give credit to authors?

 

[Leoreth]

Not a legal expect, but usually the copyright holder retains full copyright over all derivative works, even if explicitly authorised or tacitly allowed. In other words, I think Firaxis owns all mods ever created for one of their games.

 

[Tigranes]

This trailer was better than 98% of the movies in 2017 and 2016.

One user on youtube commented about Rise and Fall trailer. Honestly if Firaxis delivered the same quality of gaming experience as the quality of that trailer I would finally buy Civ6. Which is a shame for me to admit -- playing Civ franchise since Civ1 and it being almost the only PC game I ever played -- even now I felt no inspiration to simply complete my civ collection and add this game to my library simply because of the name. DoC deserves a trailer like that.

Cities in RnF Civ6 now can now revolt and declare independence during the dark ages. I think they stole that idea from our stability system!

But the interesting surprise is the inclusion of Georgia with queen Tamar. This is the first time I see it included in Franchise. I wonder why, because of the actual strong female leader? Perhaps one day I will see Armenia as well.

 

[cmakk1012]

But the interesting surprise is the inclusion of Georgia with queen Tamar. This is the first time I see it included in Franchise. I wonder why, because of the actual strong female leader? Perhaps one day I will see Armenia as well.

Adding Georgia means they absolutely should one day add Armenia too; they’re so similar in terms of history, significance, etc

 

[Leoreth]

One user on youtube commented about Rise and Fall trailer. Honestly if Firaxis delivered the same quality of gaming experience as the quality of that trailer I would finally buy Civ6. Which is a shame for me to admit -- playing Civ franchise since Civ1 and it being almost the only PC game I ever played -- even now I felt no inspiration to simply complete my civ collection and add this game to my library simply because of the name. DoC deserves a trailer like that.

Cities in RnF Civ6 now can now revolt and declare independence during the dark ages. I think they stole that idea from our stability system!

But the interesting surprise is the inclusion of Georgia with queen Tamar. This is the first time I see it included in Franchise. I wonder why, because of the actual strong female leader? Perhaps one day I will see Armenia as well.

This is related to both the trailer and the inclusion of Tamar, one thing I will give Firaxis here is that they make absolutely every possible effort to highlight women in history. Including more female leaders is one thing, but putting this aspect front in centre in their promotional trailer is exceptional and worth the praise.

Adding Georgia means they absolutely should one day add Armenia too; they’re so similar in terms of history, significance, etc

I would say that's the reason why only one of them will be added. Same phenomenon with the selective choice of 1-2 North American and 1 West African civs.

 

[Tigranes]

Adding Georgia means they absolutely should one day add Armenia too; they’re so similar in terms of history, significance, etc

Except that our Golden Age was in BCs, lol. Developer Anton Strenger said it is the first time they pick a civ from that (he meant "my) region.

I would say that's the reason why only one of them will be added. Same phenomenon with the selective choice of 1-2 North American and 1 West African civs.

What they need is Byzantium at some point. 3 Greek leaders (if you count Macedonian as Greek) from Classical age and no Byzantium from Medieval times? Not very balanced approach...

 

[cmakk1012]

This is related to both the trailer and the inclusion of Tamar, one thing I will give Firaxis here is that they make absolutely every possible effort to highlight women in history. Including more female leaders is one thing, but putting this aspect front in centre in their promotional trailer is exceptional and worth the praise.

True enough, it’s a really good thing for historical awareness.

I would say that's the reason why only one of them will be added. Same phenomenon with the selective choice of 1-2 North American and 1 West African civs.

Not even in a hypothetical Civ 7 or 8?

 

[Leoreth]

What they need is Byzantium at some point. 3 Greek leaders (if you count Macedonian as Greek) from Classical age and no Byzantium from Medieval times? Not very balance approach...

Honestly the separate Macedonia is a bunch of nonsense on the same level as Venice in Civ5.

Not even in a hypothetical Civ 7 or 8?

Sure, I'm just saying they won't have Armenia and Georgia in the same game because with only one the Christian Caucasus is "covered". I can only imagine Tamar was the decisive factor because I find it hard to argue that with its longer history, larger empire at its peak and role as one of the first Christian states Armenia was historically less significant.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

Actually, I have an issue with how they're handling female leaders in Civ5 and Civ6. While it's great to show that history was not only men and Europeans and there have been plenty of great female rulers in history (Elizabeth I, Victoria, Gorgo, Theodora, Zoe, Eleanor of Aquitaine, and so on and so on), I feel the gender quota to be forced, as it leads to over-representation (like one third, when let's face it, historically they haven't ruled as much as we wish they had), and often better choices could be made. For example, that of putting Georgia before Armenia, or Catherine de Medici instead of an actual and more lasting French monarch, like Louis XIV, Charlemagne, or Philip Augustus. Or back to Civ5, the varying degrees of controversy for choosing Dido, Wu Zetian and Maria I.

(Note aside: I wouldn't mind, and to some degree I hope, if they do that with Great People).




And back to speaking about the main topic, the least Civ6 developers could do about RFC is giving credit to Gabriele Trovato a.k.a. Rhye.

 

[Leoreth]

Of course they are going above and beyond with representation. With a setting like this, you have to make compromises in "accuracy" if you want to do that. It's a choice you can or cannot make and I find it admirable that they decided to make it.

 

[ryanmusante]

Of course they are going above and beyond with representation. With a setting like this, you have to make compromises in "accuracy" if you want to do that. It's a choice you can or cannot make and I find it admirable that they decided to make it.

So, I'm quite the fan of the Vox Populi Mod for Civ5. I didn't even play the vanilla for more than a handful of hours the entire time I owned it. But, it's amazing how much a project can reshape an original. Although, like you said it is more evident in civ4 because of the level of attention given to modding community.

I'm curious, how did you feel about the move to 1UPT? And going forward, do you think that there will be an eventual split of Firaxis and the upstart of a new franchise to take over where civilization was once hailed king? Isn't it inevitable once anything becomes too corporate? Isn't that basically what happened at Microprose?

 

[Leoreth]

I don't know what happened with Microprose. But I think the cracks in the civilisation series and 4X gaming in general (which is mostly a genre comprised of Civilization clones with little creativity) are already showing. I'm pretty sure trends from other genres will come in and a revolutionary 4X could take the place of Civilization. I wish I could be the one to create it.

About 1UPT, I think it's bad. I've spilled a lot of ink on why so you can search for those posts. But the central point is that it leads to a small world when modern 4Xs should strive for the opposite.

 

[Logoncal]

Despite being a person that started at Civ V, i really don't like 1UPT. I don't know, it feels more fun creating a stack of horsemen, spears, swords and catapults and then plunge them all into a city.
Or, have a garrison of 10 archers in my town, decimating an army as they wittle them down, arrow by arrow.
And gameplay wise, 1UPT is so annoying when it comes to getting your units blocked by anything.

 

[cmakk1012]

1UPT makes it feel much more like a board game too.

On the other hand, gigantic death stacks can be unrealistic at the highest ends; that’s why I like Realism Invictus’ supply limit, although I almost wish it was more drastic.

 

[ales_]

I think the main reason behind Georgia's inclusion is the meme, not Tamar.

 

[Mouthwash]

Not a legal expect, but usually the copyright holder retains full copyright over all derivative works, even if explicitly authorised or tacitly allowed. In other words, I think Firaxis owns all mods ever created for one of their games.

Is that a common policy? One Skyrim modder took all his mods down to protest Trump's election, and they were some of the biggest and most well-known Skyrim mods. You'd think Bethesda would have the courtesy to reupload them.