Random SG 01 - The Randomness Begins

[Teproc]

Sorry about that, got around to looking at the save finally :

Carthage is a little-food starved rightnow, there's an unimproved (and unworked) sheep tile south that should get a pasture, because we'll want Carthage to grow a lot more if we want it to work University and Writer's Guild specialists. Building a Lighthouse before the Guild seems like a good idea. Yeah it's only one fish, but even then it's basically like a Water Mill.

Looking more closely at it, I'm not a big fan of the fourth city spot. Yes it has a river, but it would have a lot of overlap with our third city, so I think we should settle right were the settler is right now and stop at 3.

If we do decide to settle a fourth city on the riverside coastal hill tile,then our third city should be settled one tile east of where the settler is right now.

For the next production in Utique, I'd suggest a CB, or possibly a Work Boat.

Finally : social policies. It won't be for a while, but we'll definitel have to open a tree before the Renaissance, and I think it should be Exploration. The opener is not that great but still useful in naval warfare, but then Maritime Infrastructure (+3 hammers in coastal cities) and Naval Tradition (+1 happiness for Lighthouses, Harbors and Seaports) are both strong. Another option would be Patronage, but I don't think it'll do as much for us here.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

@ Teproc - You need to look at the right save. We already settled our fourth city. It would have been helpful if you had weighed in earlier before it was settled.

@ Eric - What makes this time of year so busy? Holidays are over. Most schools have started again.

 

[Teproc]

Ugh, did I really look at the wrong save ? A little out of it, sorry. That's fine though, our pantheon does mean the city will have a pretty easy time growing.

 

[Teproc]

Ok, looking at the right save now :

What I said about Carthage needing more food, and more improvements in general, is still true. We're currently working two unimproved mines, that's not great.

What I said about social policies still holds.

African Forest Elephant is fine I suppose, assuming it retains the great general on upragde.

Oh, and we should be selling our iron. We're not doing anything with it, and probably won't until Frigates, so might as well get money out of it. Keep the last horses though, would be awkward to have a penalty on the Elephant when it upgrades.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

Most schools have started again.

Exactly Although I know that most CivFanatics on these forums are 30-40 year olds ....

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Although I know that most CivFanatics on these forums are 30-40 year olds ....

Yes, there are a lot of us older geeks. I'm a lot older than that even.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

@ Teproc - great point about selling the iron. We will need it for frigates, but that is down the road a piece.

I would suggest that we start pumping out ranged units both ashore and afloat. In the game I am playing on my own right now (oh, excuse me - was playing) Attila arrived from halfway around the world with something that can only be compared to the stack of doom that we used to see in - every tile had a Hun unit on it. I held him off for 40 turns, but I just lost a war of attrition. I think the goal is to not have the smallest military.

 

[Teproc]

So... has anyone PMed Optional ?

 

[EricTheGreat12]

So... has anyone PMed Optional ?

He told us before that he was playtesting some new game and that he was really busy. Doubt that he will be posting anytime soon

 

[Optional]

I think my next set should be my last set in this SG, I have too much other stuff going on and I'm just holding up the game.

I had a look at the save and read the reports. We're in a good position. Things could have been managed more effectively, but we're not elite players.
There's some tinkering between building up for war or playing peacefully.

I think personally a barracks is simply never a great idea in Civ 5. You would never do without in Civ III, 4 hitpoints instead of 3 is a big difference, but in Civ 5 a single promotion doesn't make a lot of difference, only the advanced promotions are really good.
Focusing on growth/science means you'll reach military techs earlier, this may help improving your military more than barracks.
Once in a game I built a barracks in every city and built the Heroic Epic. It's nice for kicks, but what I noticed I was lacking was simply units - I would have been much better off building units instead of all these buildings.

Making trades is something you should always do if possible. There's no such thing as having enough money, as there's always stuff to buy - a worker, a library, a lighthouse, whatever...

If an AI asks for a lux you have it is always one you have spare - unless it's about the renewal of a deal; then it might be your last one. If you're not sure best refuse.
But I would have sold that iron, preferable to Darius, because if he attacks us we'll get it back.
We need to be on our guard for an attack from him. He is now friendly, but that's a disguise. So I like the Elephant being built in Utique now, we need to keep some units on stand-by there - if he attacks it'll be with a bunch of Composite Bows and pikes, and it looks like we wouldn't be up to it.

I'd like another trade route, so I would consider researching one of the techs that give you one.
For SP I'm never a big fan of Patronage, I usually go Aesthetics in my games, but Teprocs suggestion of Exploration would certainly make sense. Next SP is only in 15 turns, so that wouldn't be in my set.
The AI's are a bit slow with Civil Service. Darius has it, but I'm not sure we should sign Open Borders with him. Probably not while we're still weak. Suleiman should get it quite soon as well though, than we can take a better look at our continent.

I still need to have a better look at the save to make a better formulated plan.

 

[EricTheGreat12]

I think personally a barracks is simply never a great idea in Civ 5

Now that we are early on/not really producing quickly I find that barracks aren't necessary. When we need to start building a military quickly that is efficient, only then would I think that the Barracks would be necessary.

I don't think that this should stop us from producing military units; but the way that we are now, in the early stages of devellopment, makes it that we can't field a real bad-ass army just yet.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

One thing I have been doing recently is waiting until I can build an armory. Then I make a military build city so I can get two promotions on new units. You need the tech that gets you long swords for that though and we are far away (steel).

Take my suggestion with a grain of salt though. I thought I would play a level 7 game today during the blizzard that didn't occur. Lost in a dogpile.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Just got flooded with 200 emails from CivFanatics telling me there has been a response to this and other threads.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

OK, so Optional, ready to play?

 

[Optional]

I finally played my set. Probably the most interesting thing was meeting a few more civs. One of the newly met leaders does not have a beard...
I'll put up the report tomorrow.

 

[Optional]

Inherited turn, just going over the towns;
Unique has a lighthouse, we all know lighthouses greatly improve sea resources, but the only fish Utique has isn't even being worked. Growth almost doubles when I put a citizen on it.
In Gades' domain a worker is improving an ordinary plains tile, while there's an unimproved sheep and an unimproved truffle in its radius as well. The worker only just started on the plains tile (5 turns to go), I'm putting it on the truffle, just think of the money coming in when we sell the truffle.
Hippo Regius is building a granary, with so many sea resources around a lighthouse would have been better - hammers in addition to food. I'll leave it, but may buy a lighthouse as soon as the money is there.
Carthage could have worked Gades' sheep instead of a hill for an extra slice of bread, but I only noticed and corrected that half-way my set.

I sell our iron, 6 gpt for all 4, to Attila; he's the only one we can get full price from. Darius would want our horse as well, which I believe to be a sign he's not happy with us, despite acting friendly.

100 BC, turn 111
Mathematics is in > Engineering
Engineering would allow an extra trade route.

75 BC, turn 112
Both Carthage and Gades are growing. I had taken the citizen off the mine in Carthage to allow growth a turn earlier here. New citizen drops on the mine, so the only difference is that you grow a turn earlier.
Carthage; work boat > chariot archer
Darius is parading around on our borders with pikes, we don't have much more than 2 composite bows and no walls in Utique, so I want another unit quickly to be a bit safer.
I'm sending the work boat around our continent to Hippo Regius where there's a pearls tile.

50 BC, turn 113
Looking at the diplo screen reveals also Attila now has Civil Service, so I move a scout in his direction, Open Borders would allow our scout to scout. No need to do any deal when he's not yet there though, and at the end of my set he's still only half-way Attila's lands...

25 BC, turn 114
Also Suleiman now has Civil Service, I'm moving the quinquereme back in his direction for exploration.
I'm moving an archer which didn't have altitude training yet next to Kilimanjaro, good movement in hills can make a difference if Darius starts to get nasty to us, and it's a free upgrade, unlike that from a barracks.
Utique grows, new citizen drops on the gold tile.

0 AD, turn 115 (the game actually says 1 AD...)
IBT Mausoleum of Halicarnassus got built somewhere.
Carthage; chariot > work boat (for Carthage's own fish)
For Hippo Regius I'm buying a deer tile now for 55 gold. Natural border expansion goes very slowly and the town is getting its granary next turn, that would make that deer tile a very good tile to be working.

25 AD, turn 116
Engineering > Currency, en route to universities
Hippo Regius; granary > library
I'm deciding to buy the lighthouse for 400 gold, this town is way better with it.
Gades' truffle comes on-line, I'm looking at who we can sell it to. Suleiman is more or less the only one, 4 gpt is all he has, but we are interested in Open Borders with him as well. He wants 2 gpt for mutual Open Borders.
I decide to give him our extra truffle for 4 gpt + access to his lands, that's not too bad.

50 AD, turn 117

IBT We meet Boudicca, our quinquereme meets a cargo ship of her.
When our quinquereme moves, we also see her lands.
Carthage; work boat > cargo ship

75 AD, turn 118
IBT Boudicca asks for embassy exchange, that's okay. We've already seen her lands, so no CS quest for that can come in anymore.
Here's Edinburgh located:

Spoiler :

The Ottomans have denounced the Huns.
Utique; African forest elephant > circus (happiness will become an issue with our rapid growth)

100 AD, turn 119
IBT Great Wall has been built by Attila.
Hippo Regius has expanded to the pearls tile, our work boat was already waiting to hook it up.
We sell the pearls to Boudicca for 7 gpt.

Our quinquereme continues and we meet Gustavus Adolphus. He seems fairly rich, things must be going well in the land of Gurra. But no trades possible.

Spoiler :

125 AD, turn 120
Attila is fed up with Suleiman and asks us for a war pact. We obviously decline.
Ethiopia denounces the Huns. I had expected them to do that earlier, Attila holds Haile Selassie's capital. Maybe Attilla has grabbed a CS to lead to the denounciations.
Colossus has been built.

I haven't yet denounced Attila as well, if some of us want to do that it's possible, but I don't see much of a gain.
Haile Selassie wouldn't make a good trading partner anyway, so then Suleiman could become a better trading partner, but Attila obviously a worse one. It's a trivial thing.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

And the line up:
Bugs
Optional <= played his last round. It has been a pleasure teammate
Polus <= Traveling. Skipped until return.
Teproc <= UP
Gurra <= on deck
Eric

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Solid set of turns Optional. Sorry to see you go. I learned a lot from observing your play.

There is one civ left to meet. We need to start thinking about diplomacy with these civs and we also need a bit of tourism. Once the ideologies come in, life can quickly become quite miserable.

It seems that at least two people (Haile & Sully) do not like Attila. We need to figure out how Boudicca and Gus feel about him. Who knows about Darius. With our military we have to be careful not to step on any toes we may have to kiss in the future.

 

[Teproc]

Looks good, don't think I can play today but I should be able to do that tomorrow.

In the meantime, any suggestions ?

I like denouncing Attila actually. Staying neutral with everyone does'nt do you any good, you want actual DoFs to get better deasl and research agreements. Maybe wait to see what others think of him, but he's Attila, he can't be that popular.

Haile is a non-factor, but Suleiman is not, and I doubt Darius likes Attila too much. Not that we want a DoF with Darius (we still want to kill him right ?) but still.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I agree that we eventually want to denounce Attila and Darius, but we want to wait until we are ready to go to war, or at least nearly ready. Denouncing now would hang a big red and white target on our chest.