Random SG 01 - The Randomness Begins

Teproc has a point, for Research Agreements friendship is needed, so staying neutral is not so good. But Education is a little while away yet, some 15 turns away for us, and for the most advanced civs not much earlier.
In the very short term we might want Open Borders from Attila for exploration. Open Borders before denouncing can be okay, denouncing and then wanting Open Borders would be a bit silly.
We do have Open Borders with Suleiman, but we could run into Hunnic borders further inland, Attila's lands are probably more inland.
This is our scout heading over there, by the way:
Spoiler :
OpenBorders_zpsfjzlj4fa.jpg~original

At the moment there would be almost as much justification in denouncing Boudicca, as she's at war with Gustav, so Gustav would like this, and Sweden would be a nice civ to be friends with; he's rich and promotes your Great People a bit.
Of course at the moment neither Boudicca or Gustav would be interested in a ratified friendship with us, we've only just met them.
But anyway, I would at least wait for another turnset before denouncing anyone.

I had made a few screenshots to help Teproc getting into the save a bit easier, besides the scout there's also some worker activity to consider:
Spoiler :
Quiches_zps48b9tddg.jpg~original
I would buy the tile in the centre of the screen, as the next cultural expansion won't take it, and we can sell truffles to both Boudicca and Gustav (if Boudicca gets a trade route pillaged it may be different).
We're making some 60 gpt at the moment, but with more income from those resources sold, and more and better trade routes coming, plus our connected towns getting bigger, we should probably be hitting 100 gpt quite soon, without a Golden Age.

There's a cargo ship nearly finished, and a couple of existing trade routes need to be reassigned. These are our trade route possibilities (tall picture):
Spoiler :
TradeRoutes_zpsfezqyzq2.jpg~original

There's a lot of info always on these overviews, like who's doing better than us in techs and who's falling behind. We're actually doing well, only Attila and Darius are doing better than us in this overview, the rest we've caught up with or we've surpassed them. On Immortal it's quite normal to only catch up in the Renaissance, but we've caught up way earlier in this game.
If we get a spy we'll have a hard time finding a civ where we can steal a tech from, I expect we'll have to send it to a City State for influence.

The tech route overview also shows that we may not want to become too hostile towards Attila, because Addis Ababa stands out as the best city to send boats to.
And we'll want external trade routes, there's no way we can afford internal food routes any longer, in 2 turns our happiness is at zero and we need to turn to colosseums and such.
Do look out for a spare lux among the AI, buy immediately if you see one.
Saving some money would also be a good idea now. If some CS has a discount for influence I would go for it. We need the happiness!
Also for a Research Agreement it is good to have some spare money.
Don't spend money on upgrading a unit or buying a worker, we can build those things. City State influence is way more important for our development, as we are hitting our growth ceiling. We're doing well in science, we've developed well, but the downside is that we have a lot of people to keep happy. I think also the scarce resources roll of the dice doesn't help here; less luxes to trade for.

The last picture is a religious overview:
Spoiler :
RelOverview_zpslourrt8k.jpg~original
Not the most interesting thing, but the civ we haven't met yet has Buddhism. Would it be India?
And the last religion slot has still not been taken. In hindsight, we could have gotten a religion had we really tried - but those things are very hard to predict in advance. I'm used to the last slots being filled around turn 100 or so.
 
Great screenshots. Most helpful. I didn't know about Trade Route Overview.

I typically go for trade routes that have science coming inbound. If none are available I go with city states to avoid helping out another civ. Right now Addis Ababa is looking good for both gold and beakers.

Agree with improving those truffles. They will be good for either cash flow or a lux swap.
 
120 (inherited) : I queue research to Civil Service into Education, then trade embassies and buy Attila's open borders for 2GPT (wouldn't trade and we're swimming in money right now) before denouncing him.

IBT : Some diplomacy happening :
Spoiler :



Also we exchange embassies with Gustavus.

121 : Star building the Writer's Guild in Carthage.

122 : Trade route w/ Addis-Ababa : yeah the Huns hate us but they're unlikely to attack soon and their religion is really nice as it has Jesuit Education.

IBT : Borobudur built in a far away land.

123 : Meet Budapest :
Spoiler :

Start Water Mill in Gades.

124 : Meet M'Banza Kongo :
Spoiler :

Start Stables in Utique. I hesitated with a Market as Utique is our trade hub right now, and I do think we should get one eventually, but Stables is +2 hammers and we have Education coming up, so it'll be nice to get that University going fast (we'll likely buy one in Carthage but build in Utique).

IBT : Refuse a DoF with Haile, as he has no gold and is already behind in science.
Sell Truffles for 7GPT to Boudicca.

125 : Open Exploration.
Start National Epic in Carthage (gives us a writing slot and I like having it already there when I buy the University in the capital).

127: Caravan from Utique to Persepolis and Cargo from Utique to Istanbul. Hopefully these will give us DoFs (spoiler : they didn't but I forgot to check so Suleiman might accept, not sure if we even want one with Darius right now, depends on wether we want to take him out sooner or later).

IBT : Gustavus takes Edinburgh. Hm.

128 : Trade Wine to Gustavus for his newly aquired Incense. It's our last wine so it's happiness-neutral for now, but we're hooking up Wine near Utique and I wanted to grab it before Gustavus traded it to someone else.

IBT : Hagia Sophia built far away.

Here's where things are now :
Spoiler :


As I said I think we should immediately buy the Uni in Carthage, probably build the one in Utique though.

Carthage has a small growth problem, one which we should solve by a Cargo Ship I believe, as Fertilizer is still a while away. I would consider grabbing Compass for that reason, though Metal Casting should probably come first for Workshops. Yes our Happiness isn't terribly high, but we can build Colosseums, I'm not too worried about that.

Oh, and Suleiman asked us to DoW Boudicca at some point. I refused, but it's good to know I guess, that could be a way to get friendly with Gustavus I suppose.
 

Attachments

Also we lost our friendship to Cape Town. I was saving Money for University (660g IIRC) but it might be worth it to dump 750g on them to get an alliance going for a while, since we're rich. Not instead of buyingthe University I mean, but after that.
 
We have several things to discuss.

1. Tech route after education.
2. Prep for the coming war with Attila. This will most like come via the sea so I would say we need some galleasses - at least four. Crossbows would also be helpful, thus question 1. I say we go towards astronomy and the galleass.
3. Diplomacy - How do we want to handle Boudicca? I think the only person we need friendship from is Suleiman. Suleiman stands between Attila and us and with enough cash we could get him to DoW on Attila. For that reason I think we need to hold onto enough cash (probably +1500G) to pull him in.

And the line up:
Bugs
Polus <= Traveling. Skipped until return.
Teproc <= just played
Gurra <= UP
Eric <= on deck
 
What coming war with Attila ? Unless he declares on us I would have no interest in that, if we're going to war with anyone it's going to be Darius, he has wonders ! ANd I doubt Attila will decare war, we're not an immediate neighbor. He hates our guts, but he probably hates Suleiman and Haile too, and those are much more attainable targets for him.

I do agree with building a navy though, they wouldn't be the best against Darius but still would help, and obviously if we're ever at war with anyone else a navy will be essential.

I say we start by getting Metal Casting for Worshops, and then go Compass. After that I'm not sure.

Here's the thing: what VC are we going for ? All of them are attainable with our position, but if we want to go Cultural we might want to try for Leaning Tower of Pisa, and Archaeology will be a priority. Having opened Exploration also gives us access to the Louvre which is very nice if you're going cultural.
 
I think a navy could come in handy against Darius even if we build it mostly for defense against Attila. As far as I can see Persepolis is only one tile away from the coast so at least one galleas could deal some damage to the city, and the rest can range attack Persian units near the coast. So we should definitely get some Galleases - we need Compass for that right? We are not really in the position to declare on Darius yet though (I think) so we could definitely go Metal Casting for Workshops before that if we want to.

A Cultural Victory is intriguing, especially if we capture Persepolis which holds some wonders such as the Great Library (theming bonus!). Also being Darius' capital and only city (as far as we know) he will store any and all great works he has in there for us to take. And as Teproc said having opened Exploration is nice for a cultural victory.

If we were to choose sides in the Boudicca/Gustavus conflict I think we should side with Sweden since Suleiman doesn't seem to like the Celts very much, and he is the one we really want as our friend. But we don't really need to be friends with Sweden or anything. Just stay away from being too friendly towards Boudicca.

Oh, and btw. The unmet civ Optional mentioned in regards to the religion screen is most likely not India. Their preferred religion is Hinduism which has not been founded. It could be anyone really since Buddhism is the religion the AI always take in an unmodded game if their preferred choice is already taken (because it's first in the list). So it's a civ that has either Buddhism, Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy or Islam as preferred religion... that's a lot of possible candidates. :D
 
It is not a matter of IF Attila will declare war, but WHEN. It would not take much for him to sail an army and a navy over to kick our butt. We have already seen his aggressive side. Given the speed that he walked all over Haile, it wouldn't take much to become his doormat as well.

I would like to suggest we focus on either machinery or astronomy. I would prefer the latter. Then build a fair amount of ranged units.
 
It is not a matter of IF Attila will declare war, but WHEN. It would not take much for him to sail an army and a navy over to kick our butt. We have already seen his aggressive side. Given the speed that he walked all over Haile, it wouldn't take much to become his doormat as well.

I would like to suggest we focus on either machinery or astronomy. I would prefer the latter. Then build a fair amount of ranged units.

You are overestimating the AI's capability for overseas invasion. I mean it might happen, but mostly what he would do is pillage our trade routes and then get crushed as hisembarked units get near our cities. It would be annoying though.

Yeah Buddhism doesn't mean anything, except that it's not the Mongols, Korea, Japan, Indonesia, America, England, possibly Germany if they prefer Protestantism to Catholicism.
 
I'm telling you. Sometime in the next 100 turns Attila is going to declare war on us and he is going to come with everything. I think you are underestimating the AI. I have just lost my fourth level 7 (I can never remember what the name is) game in a row. Typically one of the aggressive civs - Attila, Monty, Genghis - come at me with overwhelming numbers. I can hold them off for about ten turns, but the units just keep coming. Each time was around turn 150 or so on an archipelago map.
 
I'm telling you. Sometime in the next 100 turns Attila is going to declare war on us and he is going to come with everything. I think you are underestimating the AI. I have just lost my fourth level 7 (I can never remember what the name is) game in a row. Typically one of the aggressive civs - Attila, Monty, Genghis - come at me with overwhelming numbers. I can hold them off for about ten turns, but the units just keep coming. Each time was around turn 150 or so on an archipelago map.

Lets be honest here: Civ 5 AI isn't an exact beauty when it comes to war. Heck, I recently played a game when in the early game, an enemy sent an army 10 times my size and yet I repelled his attack.The secret: archer and walls in each city; it's the best defense we can get. It sucks that the AI's army might ravage of our land, but at least we'll be able to hold them out the cities. And of course, if we need to get walls + archers we need to get rid of some units that are taking too much space in terms of money; such as our spare scouts. We already have a scout moving south and I think that's enough.

Although, I would like to add that more ships could be better if we want to stop the enemy from getting anywhere near our land. Maybe 3-5 triemes would do us some good.
 
Bottom line - we need some naval units, some walls, and some more composite bows
 
Triremes (or even Quinqueremes) aren't that great, I'd hold off on building ship until we research Compass. I don't think Walls will be necessarily at all, it is almost always better to build units than Walls, as units can be used both offensively and defensively.
 
OK. So does that mean we want to research Compass first? I say yes. If not, I would like to go for Machinery and crossbows.
 
Gurra is up next.

I like compass first. I would really like to have some solid naval units. Then we can go for metal casting and machinery.

Teproc, why metal casting first?
 
I think Teproc's research plan sounds good. That way we can get some workshops up and running before crossbows come along, while one of the east coast cities can build som Galleases. We can use those against Persia in the way I mentioned earlier and if we get in a war with Attilia they are great both for defense and sieging Addis Abeba.

Oh, and I'm playing next. Just waiting for everyone's input on the techs and such. :)
 
Back
Top Bottom