Random thoughts about Europe and the World at large.

Originally posted by onejayhawk

Funny that you should mention genes, since geneticly modified food crops were the basis for the report I cited.

J

Only shows that CNN's quality is at an all time low, if they have to resort to arguments like those in a purely economic consideration.

Originally posted by onejayhawk

Continental Europeans can start slagging off the US elections when they cease electing criminals as their own Presidents. Bush's election problems pale into insignificance when put alongside the corrupt and rotten political system at the heart of France, Italy, the European Union, Germany et al.

The only difference is that the US has enterprise funding of candidates institutionalised. Europe has not and tries to keep politics away from enterprise influence. Not always successfull, but at least they try. Considering this, you could call the US legally corrupt, while calling Europe illegaly corrupt. But this does not change the facts.

Calling European leaders criminals is not an argument, at least not an argument based on facts. If Europeas protest against the view US americans have of them, it is because it seems they consider us third world countries, which Europe is not. It is not minority complexes, we just want to help the ignorant part of your population. Remember: education is not your enemy. And knowing something about countries other than your own is not unpatriotic.
 
Sure you guys in Europe are more civilised then the rest of the planet. After all, you pretty much destroyed all other civilizations around the world, didnt you?

Thank you Luiz.

A. I would never say that Europeans have more culture than other regions of the world, because I simply think that is not true. But then, that comment did not come from me.

B. And don't forget, that at that time Americas and Euorpe had some closer ties than today. Slave-trade involveld manily bringing them to the Americas, so it's a shared injust history.

C. I don't feel cultural superior versus any part of the world (but sometimes inferior to China, Inda and Japan), but I don't feel inferior to the Americans, like American culture (yes, Americans have their own culture) seems to demand. I feel cultural complete equal to Americans.

D. Now, why I am thankful. European history is for a big part of Europeans a hunting nightmare. That changed the outlook of Europeans on the world very much. And that's one of the big difference between Americans and Europeans. Not a "envy or inferority-complex". Example Iraq. Most Euorpeans have absolutley no intention to go back to one of those former colonies and colonize it again. It's just a big no, no, no, no. So, it's hard for an west-European politician (if his not a right-wingi, white-superiority moron) to start recolonize the world.

You better summed up differences between Americans and Europeans, then the so-called "expert" which was the start of this thread.
 
Honestly I think that most Americans would prefer that the US was just a normal prosperous country rather than the world's only super-power. It puts the US in moral dilemmas that other countries don't have to deal with. It is a burden, and not one we deal with well.
 
And anyway, I don't consider a country a democracy, where the put their heads into the dirt, when they meet a "lord". There's a reason, that a certain Island is not wanted. I would be happy, some MTV-viedos would become true and that country would set sail and cross the pond. Then it would have the great pleasure of being the 51 state of a great country.
 
Originally posted by Pillager
My random, yet entirely predictable, thought for this thread:
Continental Europeans can start slagging off the US elections when they cease electing criminals as their own Presidents. Bush's election problems pale into insignificance when put alongside the corrupt and rotten political system at the heart of France, Italy, the European Union, Germany et al.
For the record, since someone, to be nameless, attributed it to me. I do not endorse it. Also for the record, I agree with a sliver of the sentiment, just not the language.

I do wonder if there is a center to the European community that can be properly spoken of as THE European Community, or if the disunity is too pervasive and self defeating.

J
 
And anyway, I don't consider a country a democracy, where the put their heads into the dirt, when they meet a "lord". There's a reason, that a certain Island is not wanted. I would be happy, some MTV-viedos would become true and that country would set sail and cross the pond. Then it would have the great pleasure of being the 51 state of a great country.

Like hell! :mad:

Bowing in front of Lords? You a coupla centuries late on that one my friend, if you are looking for sycophancy look at the way people act towards the big US CEO's, makes Britains feudal past look positively chummy.


I cant speak for Europeans over this whole envy thing (I wonder about the French for instance) but the British dont have an envy thing going over the US, we like you guys generally, and if truth be told we are a hell of a lot more similar to you than we are to any of our actual neighbours. What gets us riled up is one thing basically, and while this will probably sound like a troll I will say it anyway because its true. Americans come across as infuriatingly arrogant and patronising to a degree that in Britain would probably get you your arse kicked for. One of Bush's main problems (and I happen to like the guy) is when he does speeches on TV he just seems to many of us like he is addressing a small child, its pretty much just the culture divide coming into play but politicians over here just do not speak that way, and it just seems really whacked out to watch the President of the USA speaking in that manner.
 
Originally posted by luiz
Im not saying that the today europeans are to blame for the huge crimes of Europes past, but please dont consider yoursel 'more civilised and sophisticated' than most nations. It sounds nazi-like.

North and South Americans alike have had their own outbursts of very horrid genocide.

So please do not attempt to claim any moral high ground, my friend.

;)
 
Originally posted by MrPresident
In France doesn't matter how many votes you get in the first round as long as you get to the second round.
Sorry to disturb, but I feel compelled to correct you on this one.

First, to get to the second round, you need to be one of the two candidates that had the most votes. So it's really a langage fallacy to say that the number of votes doesn't matter as long as you reach the second round, considering that the number of votes is the BASIS on which you go or not on the second round...

Second, if anyone reach the absolute majority in the first round (50 % of the votes + 1 vote), he's directly elected and there is no second round. So much for the number of votes not important.
Before you say there were many more candidates in that election, let me remind you that there was no limit to number of candidates that could be put forward for the American Presidental election.
And before you say that, let me remind you that USA has a strictly majoritary system (not sure about the english word on this one), which means that the winner wins ALL the seats, regardless of if he had 30 % of the vote, or 95 %, and regardless of the number of people he had to run against and their own votes.
This kind of system tends to make bipolar politics.
So sorry, but the two are not comparable on this one.
Originally posted by Kentonio
I cant speak for Europeans over this whole envy thing (I wonder about the French for instance)
If you ever wonder what a French think on about any subject, it's quite simple : imagine which point of view can make himself important and dismiss others, and you've pretty well summed up his thoughts :D
 
If you ever wonder what a French think on about any subject, it's quite simple : imagine which point of view can make himself important and dismiss others, and you've pretty well summed up his thoughts

Lol, what does the average British think ? He thinks if he's together with the great poppy from Texas, he can dream about it's former empire and be so much better and so far away from that lousy continent his neighbouring. I repeat, in this case, make your Island swim away to the other side of the pond and become the 51 state of a great country. I guess the continent won't miss you.

Then you don't have to worry about the evil Dutch, Scandinvavians, Spanish, Italian, Germans, French, Belgians and every other devilish breed from the continent. Then you have to worry about the orders from Washington. ;)

The Island that Europe didn't want.
 
Come now Yago, we do want the British to be a part of Europe ! And just because European-US relations are at a low point doesn't mean that it has always been that way or will stay like that.
Cooperation has always been the norm between Europe and the US, and I believe we will eventually revert to that situation.
 
Yago, just to avoid you further embarassment : I'm French.
 
Yago, it seems you really hate GB. How come?

As for the single voice Europe speaks with, or doesn't speak with: The problem is, that opinions are respected, and if someone is not of the same opinion, he is not simply shut up. Unfortunately nationalistic ideas are still the easiest way to get votes in an election, so it will be some time, until a nation-independent leadership of the EU evolves. Right now I think that Schröder, Fischer, Michel and Chirac are a good voice for (mainland) Europe. If countries like Spain, Poland, Turkey, etc. voice a different opinion (mostly as part of their individual foreign/interior policy) that is allright. They are entitled to this.

If you take Spain for example, it hasn't been a very bad decision to support the US, after all they want more influence in South American markets, etc. Poland had to pay up for their acceptance to NATO, Turkey had to support the US to remain in power over the Kurds after the war. Those individual policies entitle them to support or not support the war since the EU does not pursue those policies until now.

GM food on the other hand is something the EU as a whole opposes to, since all member states profit if the US has to mark food with GM ingredients or is prohibited to export it to the EU. The critizism does not come from some sort of psychological problems (can a union of states even have them?) but from economic deliberations.
 
I always thought civilization started in Iraq and that this discussion is pointless. Or at least that's what the propaganda machine kept saying.
 
Lol, I think like I have to explain the little trollish-crusade I went on, considering the Island, that Europe didn't want.

No, I don't hate the British. I actually like them, most of them are very decent, rational people. Like Italians, some of them aren't the nicest folks, other Italians are.

Now, what brought to my little trollish-crusade:

Following quotes:
Bush is seen as far-right in Europe. The leftists don't like that. They combine with those who generally dislike America for being powerful to create a large opposition to Bush in Europe. And Yago, Europe is less democratic and certainly less of a market economy than America.

Yeah, right. And my grandma is a young girl, sprinting everyday.

Boredom has nothing to do with it. People don't vote for MEPs because they feel there is no point. There is no point because the European Union is inherently undemocratic. And I find it ridiculous that Europeans feel the democratic superiority to make fun of the American Presidental election. I say we look at ourselves before laughing at others.

Whoa, yeah, the Britsh lords teaching democracy. And the EU is not a country, it is a multi-national organisation. Lessons from the land of gerry-mandering aren't to be taken to serious.

80% of the French people wanted someone else to win the first ballot of the French Presidental election and the French feel they are able to criticise Bush for not winning a majority. As I have said before and I will say again, we Europeans have no right to laugh at the democratic strangeness of other countries.

The same for the British, which, again, are not a shining-bright example themselves.

My random, yet entirely predictable , thought for this thread:

Continental Europeans can start slagging off the US elections when they cease electing criminals as their own Presidents. Bush's election problems pale into insignificance when put alongside the corrupt and rotten political system at the heart of France, Italy, the European Union, Germany et al.

That, together with John Wayne (yeah, I know, a jingo from another country) and vote for BNP, was enough of snobism from the great oligarchy behind the Channel-Islands and I went troll with this one (omitting making a connection to the quotes above)

And anyway, I don't consider a country a democracy, where the put their heads into the dirt, when they meet a "lord". There's a reason, that a certain Island is not wanted. I would be happy, some MTV-viedos would become true and that country would set sail and cross the pond. Then it would have the great pleasure of being the 51 state of a great country.

And then came this:

I cant speak for Europeans over this whole envy thing (I wonder about the French for instance) but the British dont have an envy thing going over the US, we like you guys generally, and if truth be told we are a hell of a lot more similar to you than we are to any of our actual neighbours.

Yes, yes, wonder about those strange people on this strange continent.

Then I thought someone is joining me on my trollish-crusade

If you ever wonder what a French think on about any subject, it's quite simple : imagine which point of view can make himself important and dismiss others, and you've pretty well summed up his thoughts

Some, in my view, very ignorant and stupid comments of some British-right-wingis have gotten me on a trollish-crusade, that is true. So, maybe I've been way too trollish and maybe I am one of the problems which are the reason the rethink customs and rules on this forums, i.e. those newcomers on this side, which caused a lot of problems. Well, the right-wingi position of the British is well known. The continent is birthplace of devilish and evil things, like the Metric-system.
 
Originally posted by Yago
Lol, what does the average British think ?
Beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, football, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer, beer...
Originally posted by Yago
I repeat, in this case, make your Island swim away to the other side of the pond and become the 51 state of a great country. I guess the continent won't miss you.
Strange how this was never said during WWII. :hmm:
Originally posted by Yago
And anyway, I don't consider a country a democracy, where the put their heads into the dirt, when they meet a "lord". There's a reason, that a certain Island is not wanted.
As Kentonio said no one cares if you are a Lord or Lady anymore. In fact, it could work against you because of class warfare. Also since when is our island not wanted? We are the fourth largest economy in the world, we have one of the best armies in the world and we make damn fine Yorkshire puddings.
Originally posted by Yago
Whoa, yeah, the Britsh lords teaching democracy. And the EU is not a country, it is a multi-national organisation.
Actually modern democracy started in Britain, well before our European "friends". Also the EU may not be a country yet but it ain't far off. Give it a little time. And what is it up you and Lords? So we have landed titles. Big deal.
Originally posted by Yago
The same for the British, which, again, are not a shining-bright example themselves.
Exactly. The British system is not democratic at all. That is why I said we should look at ourselves before laughing at the Americans.

Thanks for the corrections Akka. And the English phrase for a majoritary system is 'first-past-the-post'.
 
(am I the only one who have the feeling that Yago was not totally sober when he wrote this last message ? :hmm: )
 
test_specimen, you know that turkey is one of the countries, which was very opposed against the war. Public opinion in Spain and Turkey was overwhelmlingly (sp ?) against any support of the war. The turkish goverment opposed the war, as far as it's position allowed it, the Spanish goverment ignored public opinion fully, a privilege of a PM, who wanted to retire from his position after the term anyway. Don't know if Aznar's party likes him anymore. Depends, if they can focus on othe issues in the next election.
 
(am I the only one who have the feeling that Yago was not totally sober when he wrote this last message ? )

Drivin under the influence may be illegal, but writing under the influence is still allowed, as far as I know.
 
Originally posted by Yago


Drivin under the influence may be illegal, but writing under the influence is still allowed, as far as I know.
Of course, and I was not asking for any punishment of any kind against you.
I was just wondering if it was your message that was not making any sense, or if it was just my english skills that were lacking.
 
Back
Top Bottom