Random thoughts about Europe and the World at large.

[test_specimen]

Originally posted by Yago
test_specimen, you know that turkey is one of the countries, which was very opposed against the war. Public opinion in Spain and Turkey was overwhelmlingly (sp ?) against any support of the war. The turkish goverment opposed the war, as far as it's position allowed it, the Spanish goverment ignored public opinion fully, a privilege of a PM, who wanted to retire from his position after the term anyway. Don't know if Aznar's party likes him anymore. Depends, if they can focus on othe issues in the next election.

The population in those countries was against the war, but the politicians supported it. Turkey had a hard time deciding on whether to let the US use NATO bases in its country or not, and failed only because of public opinion. Spanish politicians might have acted against the will of their population, but did Brits really support the war? Or was Blair acting on his own? Turkey and Spain acted because of national interest against any pacifistic ideas, simply because this national interest was not looked after by the EU. This public interest was not connected directly to the war, but to the benevolence of the US.

 

[Yago]

Well, the message I had was.

Yes, I've been a troll.

Yes, I feel guilty for being a troll.

But I want to put a giantic troll-bomb on top of it, before I stop trolling around.

And another part of the message was, it seems like rules of posting (and posting behaviour) and moderations on this website are currently under reevaluation. Seems like a good idea to me. Even if it means, my trolling around will not longer be tolerated.

By the way:

Beer, Beer, Beer, Beer, Beer, Football, Beer, Beer, Beer, Beer, Beer, Football, Beer, Beer, Beer, Beer, Beer, Beer, Beer

That sums the thinking of me and most of my countrymen very well up too. I've always avoided to say anything against the famous British-pub-culture. Some thinks have always to be respected.

 

[Yago]

Concerning (or conserning ?) national interest. There is a difference between long and short term interest. And there is a difference between "saying" to support something ans actually "support" something.

Turkey's support has been vital for the war. They leant out of the window (on the pro-American-site) as far as they could. The turkish Goverment was stuck between a rock (it's people) and a hard place (US-Goverment). The main goal of the turkish goverment was avoiding too much trouble with the Americans.

Spain. They got a good reputation for nothing. Because they're "support" was virtually nothing.

Germany on the other hand, was the 3rd most important ally, behind the UK, in this war. The American troops came and went over Germany.

 

[Kentonio]

Just in case you were including me in your nasty little comment about 'very ignorant and stupid comments of some British-right-wingis' I would just like to repeat my comment..

I cant speak for Europeans over this whole envy thing (I wonder about the French for instance) but the British dont have an envy thing going over the US, we like you guys generally, and if truth be told we are a hell of a lot more similar to you than we are to any of our actual neighbours.

Apart from the Fench bit which was clearly a joke the rest is perfectly true. The British share far more similiarities with the Americans and their culture than they do with France, Germany, Spain or any of the other countries in Europe. A common language helps of course. I can make such a statement and stand by it having enjoyed living in France for several years and having close friends of most European nationalities. We are just more similar to the yanks.

Oh and re the right wing position of the British dont even flatter yourself that you understand it, summarizing it as a hatred of all things European is an old trick and is symptomatic of a weak mind.

Take care now.

 

[onejayhawk]

Originally posted by Akka
(am I the only one who have the feeling that Yago was not totally sober when he wrote this last message ? )

How would you be able to tell? I do not detect a noticable shift from the norm. Just for the record your English skills are just fine. Yago's are...less laudable.

Methinks all thisn threadjacking is proving the initial point.

J

 

[Yago]

Oh and re the right wing position of the British dont even flatter yourself that you understand it, summarizing it as a hatred of all things European is an old trick and is symptomatic of a weak mind.

Guess what. I thought the same about you. That was the idea of the whole post. At least we are two of a weak minded kind, using the same cheap tricks from opposite sides.

Methinks all thisn threadjacking is proving the initial point.

Which is ? I am Anti-Brazilian because I envy them for their chicks ?

 

[Kentonio]

Sorry, what side was I claiming to understand exactly? I made a statement that the British were more like the Americans than our neighbours in Europe. In what way exactly am I presuming to understand someones beliefs? If you wish to try and debunk what I said I am more than happy to argue the point with you, however you just seem to be distancing yourself as quickly as possible from the original point and trying to find a battleground you can win on.

 

[Yago]

Sorry, what side was I claiming to understand exactly? I made a statement that the British were more like the Americans than our neighbours in Europe ... ... however you just seem to be distancing yourself as quickly as possible from the original point and trying to find a battleground you can win on.

I presume you mean, the point from which I am distancing myself is, that the British are closer to the Americans then to their European neighbours. Well, that's hard for me to answer, because I am obviously not from the UK. I've been to the UK once. I know some Americans. I know some other Euorpean countries and my country.

So, my opinion generally to European countries. They are all very different from eachother, but yet, talking about the continent, are somehow very linked together. So, yes, there's a difference between Spain, Italy, Germany, Belgium, Sweden and Finland. But then, there's even a bigger difference, if I compare them to Japan, the USA, the Latin-American countries. So, continental Europeans are different from eachother, but share a lot of common beliefs and common thinking.

To the UK. Ok, again, I am not from there, so my outsider look on the UK. My impression is, there are a lot of British, who have the opinion, that the should remain distanced from the continent. I don't know, if that's a majority, at least it's a big group. That's fine with me.

That's now a little bit off topic, but I think the UK should stay so far away from the EU as possible. Not because I don't like the British, but given the domestic political climate, I think, there are a lot people who blame everything, even the fog and the bad weather, on the EU. So, distance would be healthy and don't lead to too much tensions.

Now, comparing the British with the Americans. Both are very different. Brits have a certain kind of humour, Americans don't have. Brits drink beer in pints, a lot of pints. Lots and lots and lots of pints. Americans have probelm to keep up the pace. That's actually the biggest and first difference which comes to my mind. They have complete diametrial opinions about drinking. Then weapons. Then the UK is a welfare-state compared to the USA. Then the UK has a "labour" party, something completly unthinkable in the USA. Then, I just can't imagine a Brit living in Texas or Mississipi. East-coast, yes. West-coast maybe. In the south ? No way. In the mid-west. ah, no. Then the food. No curry, no toast, no tea. And then, I can't see the British cracking down dissidents like the Americans do. And I can't see them going to church every day and praying before school starts.

 

[MrPresident]

A pretty good assessment of the British Yago, except for two points.

Originally posted by Yago
And then, I can't see the British cracking down dissidents like the Americans do. And I can't see them going to church every day and praying before school starts.

We are as good as anyone at cracking down on dissidents and our schools are required to hold religious assemblies a certain number of days every week (I forget how many). We our a Christian nation with our head of state being the head of the Church of England, something unthinkable in America. The ironic thing is that we, as a people, are not religious despite this offical endorsement. Oh, and you forgot about cricket.

 

[Pillager]

Originally posted by Yago

Now, comparing the British with the Americans. Both are very different. Brits have a certain kind of humour, Americans don't have. Brits drink beer in pints, a lot of pints. Lots and lots and lots of pints. Americans have probelm to keep up the pace. That's actually the biggest and first difference which comes to my mind. They have complete diametrial opinions about drinking. Then weapons. Then the UK is a welfare-state compared to the USA. Then the UK has a "labour" party, something completly unthinkable in the USA. Then, I just can't imagine a Brit living in Texas or Mississipi. East-coast, yes. West-coast maybe. In the south ? No way. In the mid-west. ah, no. Then the food. No curry, no toast, no tea. And then, I can't see the British cracking down dissidents like the Americans do. And I can't see them going to church every day and praying before school starts.

If we're talking relatve similarities, which it seems we are, then the differences between the UK and the US are smaller than those between the major continental countries and the US. Two examples:

- Continental Europe is an extreme welfare state compared to the UK, which in turn, has more welfare than the US.

- We have a Labour party, which is unthinkable in the US. In continental Europe, not only do they have Labour parties, they also have communists parties, in government. Even more unthinkable both here and in the States.

 

[Yago]

Lol, yes. Football (soccer), Rugby, Cricket (but isn't pakistan invincible ?)

 

[allhailIndia]

Originally posted by Yago
, Cricket (but isn't pakistan invincible ?)

I hope that was written either in

a) Open sarcasm

b) Complete ignorance

coz the Pakis got whipped inthe first round in the World Cup and just lost to New Zealand in a One Day series

 

[Kentonio]

Ok Yago ive just read through that entire post and I have to ask..

WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT YOU SAID?!?

If you are going to insult me in future, please have the decency to back up it up.

Thanks.

 

[Yago]

To Allhailindia:

Open sarcasm

Ok Yago ive just read through that entire post and I have to ask..

WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT YOU SAID?!?

If you are going to insult me in future, please have the decency to back up it up.

Ahm, I don't get it. Ok, I confessed that I was a troll. And yes, I've gone too far. But what should I back up now ?

You offended me too:

Oh and re the right wing position of the British dont even flatter yourself that you understand it, summarizing it as a hatred of all things European is an old trick and is symptomatic of a weak mind.

I don't think at all that it's symptomatic for a weak mind what I said. Right-wing British usually have a contempt for the continent. I think that's an observation which is correct.

 

[Kentonio]

I insulted you as a big thank you for the original insult, hey but who's counting.

You are wrong incidentally, the right wing in Britain do not have a contempt for the continent, we simply dont want to hand over our countries control to it.

 

[eyrei]

Why don't you all stop worrying about who insulted who and get on with the discussion?

 

[Kentonio]

I did, that was the second paragraph.

 

[onejayhawk]

What is the discussion anyway?

Let me pose a question. Are the British, the French, the Germans, Italians, et al, more different or less different than, say Midwesterners, Oregonians, Bostonites, Texans and Mormons? If there wer a central government making policy for all, could the various countries live under it?

J

PS From American history it is easily shown that the power to coin money, regulate commerce and the Central Court is sufficient to constitute a central government. Restrict your answers to that much.

 

[Drewcifer]

Originally posted by Yago


I just can't imagine a Brit living in Texas or Mississipi. East-coast, yes. West-coast maybe. In the south ? No way. In the mid-west. ah, no. Then the food. No curry, no toast, no tea. And then, I can't see the British cracking down dissidents like the Americans do. And I can't see them going to church every day and praying before school starts.

All I will say is that there is much more to America than the stereotypes that are popular in Europe. I live in the Midwest but I also live in one of the most cosmopolitan cities I have ever been to (I have been to three continents), the food is good too. The US is much more heterogeneous than any European county I have visited. I am often astounded by some of the things some Europeans believe about the US.

 

[MrPresident]

onejayhawk, Europeans are different from each other in one very important aspect, language. I fail to see how Europe can be a country without a single language and I fail to see how that language can be anything but English. So when the French are really to accept our language then I am ready to fully accept Europe as our masters.