Rat 24 - AWE Training Game

[Greebley]

If we don't have horses, Masonry might be a choice if it completes in less before the temple in Greebley River. If we switch the temple to the Palace how long until we reach the 300 shields? If it is long enough to go:
Masonry, IW, Math, Writing, Lit before Greebley River reaches 300 shields, then this is definitely what I would do.

If we could only fit either IW or Math but not both before we reach 300 shields, then I think I would still go for Masonry.

If we would be forced to go Masonry, Writing, Lit, then it is potentially risky to skip both IW and Math and I would let the temple complete and take at least one of those two.

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If we DO have horses well using our UU has the disadvantage of a pretty early GA. I think we should do this only if we want to go on the offensive.

My take on a early despotic GA is that it is worthwhile only if it allows us to get an advantage on the enemy. Doing serious damage to China or other AI early on while it is weaker for example.

So I only recommend HBR next if we want to concentrate on UU production and starting a GA to pump out mounted warriors for a major offensive. Early offensives can be very effective when they work. In a standard game there is usually 1 resource per civ on a continent. That means we have at least 2 enemies. I am guessing we have 3 enemies since we found so many Lux in such a small area, and possibly 4.

I am not as good at really early offensive battles and at estimating what I will need to take on the enemy plus RNG becomes more of a factor, so I am more inclined to wait on HBR.

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If anyone has the time to make a spread sheet thingy to estimate when Greebley river will reach 300 shields, and indicate how long writing or IW will take, that should give us a guide

 

[Othniel]

Good set, ThERat. I'm glad our spear hung in there in the first rush!

Good news on the plentiful luxes. I'm inclined to send our next settler to the gems and then hold off settling the rest of the tundra for a while.

I'd probably switch Alleniel to a worker too. I'm a big fan of massing early workers. Getting our cities to exclusively work fully improved tiles will really help us.

Masonry next sounds good even if we get horses. Even though all the luxes may allow us to run high science if we so chose, I'm sure the GLib will have it's uses.

I like getting Maths soon to, although getting horses might make early Cats a little irrelevant, IMO. I know, Cats really help the kill ratio and I definitely practice building big artillery stacks in my solo games. But the advantage of MW is the speedy power, so I see two main options:

-Mass archers, swords?, spears, and cats and do a slow plod forward.
-Mass Horseman/MW and forget the slow stuff for the first major offensive.

Of course, these options assume that we can go on an offensive and are not just fighting for our existence.

Our luxes will also help with getting gpt so a mass MW upgrade also looks decently feasible. In that case, if we do have horses we may choose to not get HBR for a while.

Just throwing this out there, perhaps prematurely, but I'm assuming we're going Monarchy over Republic...

If anyone has the time to make a spread sheet thingy to estimate when Greebley river will reach 300 shields, and indicate how long writing or IW will take, that should give us a guide

I'll take a hack at it at some point. If anyone beats me to it though, by all means...

One minor quibble and suggestion. You seemed to use cpt (commerce per turn) interchangably with gpt (gold per turn). Since many of us are used to playing non-AW games where frequently cpt=culture per turn, it might be helpful to consistently use gpt for gold/commerce to eliminate any misunderstanding.

Yes, I know I'm nit-picking.

Feel free to pick any nits you might spot.

I'll try to specify out when I mean culture and when I mean commerce. I'm sure you understand this, but just to clarify, I don't call a city's commerce production as "gpt" on purpose. "Gpt", to me at least, refers specifically to how much of the city's commerce is allotted to the treasury, based on the science and lux slider settings. Commerce is the more general reference to commerce points that can be assigned to gpt, beakers, or happy faces.

 

[vmxa]

del

 

[Aabraxan]

Here's my got it, though I will not be able to play it tonight.

 

[TheOverseer714]

If we can severely damage China before we meet anyone else, that would be the desired result. I guess we'll see during Aabraxan's turn how much we can do before being swarmed by Chinese archers. Seems like the AI is running some brisk science so far. We will definitely want the GLib at some point.

 

[Aabraxan]

At long last, am just about to start my turnset! Wish me luck.

 

[Ansar]

At long last, am just about to start my turnset! Wish me luck.

Bonne chance, mon ami Aabraxan!

 

[Othniel]

Have fun, Aabraxan. Give Mao our regards.

 

[Aabraxan]

We have the wheel, but no horses. Temple at Greebley River will complete before either Masonry or Iron Working unless I stunt its shields. Suggestions?

And have we decided on the next tech? Masonry or IW?

 

[Othniel]

No horsies...well then. Shooting from the hip:

Research Masonry --> IW. If we get Masonry first, we can start the GLib prebuild while we research IW. If we go IW first, I don't think we have a big enough pre-build.

I do think we need IW soon because killing China will be tough(er) without a 3 attack unit.

Let the temple in Greebley finish, then start on a pre-pre-build until Masonry comes in.

 

[Aabraxan]

I can slow the temple's build in exchange for faster pop growth, which will allow Masonry to come in. I can then switch the temple to a palace.

 

[Othniel]

I can slow the temple's build in exchange for faster pop growth, which will allow Masonry to come in. I can then switch the temple to a palace.

Do that then, IMO.

 

[TheOverseer714]

No horses. Funny how often the strategic resource needed for the UU is missing... Must be Sid's way of saying go fight for it...

 

[ThERat]

I'd say finish the temple regardless as we want the city at pop 6 with happiness. It would also increase the tiles we can work.

As for techs, we can go masonry first, but we have IW writing and alphabet to research before switching the prebuild anyway...we got to be careful with that

 

[Aabraxan]

Turn 0: Preflight:
City Status:
Salamanca --> Archer due in 1, growth in 1
Rat Falls--> Spear in 5, growth in 3
Greebley River--> Temple in 12, growth in 18
Alleniel--> Rax in 19, growth in 5.

I can't switch Alleniel to a worker without losing a turn of production (pop 1, worker would be due in 4, growth in 5)

Finally, after way too much fretting, I hit "Enter."

IBT:
Chinese rWarrior attacks and dies (1-0)
Chinese rArcher follows suit (2-0)

Salamanca: Archerr--> Settler (4).
Salamanca isn't operating like Othniel's spreasheet said. The spreadsheet said 7 shields on the turn that I start the settler, but I only get 6 unless I steal the mined BG from Rat Falls. So I swap the tile, coming up with 8 spt in Salamanca.

Turn 1: 1600 BC
I leave the new archer in Salamanca for MP duty until the settler is born.
Workers due N of Greebley falls finished the mine. I'm at a bit of a loss as to where to send them (& critique here would be helpful), so I send them 1 W (back towards Salamanca), so they can begin roading and mining on the way to the gems.
Found Cattansaraugus on the gems.
Growth in 10, warrior in 5. I'd start a worker, but it would complete in 5, so I can't do that.
Maybe I just overlooked it in other turnlogs, but there are also silks at the northern tip of the tundra.
China has Masonry, The Wheel, Iron Working & Mysticism.

IBT:
zzz

Turn 2: 1575 BC
Begin roading with one worker NW-NW of Greebley River, move the other onto the BG NE-NE of Salamanca to begin work next turn.
The Wheel due in 2 # +1 gpt, but I can get it in 1 @ breaking even. I decide that knowledge of horse locations is more important than 1 gold.

IBT:
Our Scientists discover The Wheel.
We do not have horses. In fact, there are none visible on the map.
I discover that, at the rate things are going, the temple at Greebley River will complete before either Masonry or IW.

Turn 3: 1550 BC
After some tinkering, I slow down Greebley River's temple build (now due in 11), in exchange for speeding up pop growth. In order to keep the lux slider at 20%, I hire one scientist in Rat Falls. Masonry now due in 9, at 70% science and 20% lux.
Begin roading the BG NW-NW of Salamanca.

IBT:
zzz

Turn 4: 1525 BC
Finished roading by the goodie hut. Send that worker to road the forest S of Greebley River. If we're going to build a wonder there, we're going to want to work that forest for shields. Might as well pick up an extra coin.
China has 95 gold, so they've sold something.
China is willing to negotiate . . .

IBT:
Salamanca: Settler--> archer (3) (My Salamanca doesn't seem to operate the same way as Othniel's Spreadsheet Salamanca does . . . )

Turn 5: 1550 BC
I send the settler to settle towards the gems.
Move the roading worker onto the Salamanca BG, putting the two back together for mining.

IBT:
Cultural expansion. We can finally see the western end of our landmass.
Rat Falls: spearman-->archer (4)
Cattansaraugus: Warrior--> worker (5)
Road on the Salamanca BG completes

Turn 6: 1475 BC
Begin mining.
China learned HBR.

IBT:
An English warrior enters the picture.

Turn 7: 1450 BC
As Lizzie has joined the party,:

Spoiler :

I move the settler one further out onto the tundra. Ordinarily, I wouldn't put him at CxxxC, BUT . . . We're agri. That town will get 3 food from the tundra tile and moving out onto the tundra will open up a couple of extra grass tiles that can be improved later. As city placement is (one of) my weak points, I name the new town Aabra's Folly. As I had the northern-exploring warrior meet the settler on-site, I can immediately begin a worker.

IBT:
Mined BG at Salamanca finishes. Begin roading towards Aabra's Folly.

Turn 8: 1400 BC
Shuffle an archer towards the choke.

IBT:
Rat Falls: Archer-->settler (4) (growth in 7, so next build perhaps should be a settler?)

Turn 9: 1375
Begin roading to Aabra's Folly. Otherwise, zzz.

IBT:
Cattansaraugus: Worker-->barracks (20)(don't know that we want to keep this)

Turn 10: 1350 BC
Move the Cattansaraugus worer s to begin roading the BG.
I finally have to move lux back up to 20%. Turn down science to 30%. Masonry in 1 at +7 gpt.

And without further ado, >>>THE SAVE<<<

 

[TheOverseer714]

Good job, Aabra, sucks to have no horses..........yet. I see all settlements so far are behind the chokepoint, should that continue, or should we start moving out? Empty land rarely stays empty long in this game. Since it is too late for me to play tonight, I'd like to see some thoughts as to strategy and settling on my turn-set. I know what I would like to do, but this is a team game, so everyone get your 2 drachmas in. Consider this my "got it" post.

 

[ThERat]

Look like solid turns. Not to sound too negative, I would have settled maybe in such a way that we could grab the whale. With our current placement, it seems not possible.

Now, since we have no horses, we have a few decisions to make.

1. Research
Are we going for IW - writing - literature? Or, are we heading for literature without going for IW? I would go for IW as we need to secure at least that resources.

2. Expansion
Where are we settling next? I would be inclined to start our push towards the south as we need fresh water It looks as if the AI is ignoring our choke city as we have an elite spear in there?


Roster:

Greebley
ansar
Othniel
ThERat
Aabraxan
TheOverseer714 - up
gmaharriet

 

[Othniel]

Good turns, Aabraxan. Nice of England to join in our little fracas.

Some thoughts:
I would have settled the gems a little different also, probably on the hill so that the gem city can get a harbor --> more food. Of course, the current placement gets some grass tiles so maybe it evens itself out. Also, we can still get the whale by settling 2NW of the chokepoint cow. Not sure if we want to, but we can. Ultimately though, if we do a palace jump these tundra cities will be mostly corrupt, so placement is not that important, IMO.

My Salamanca doesn't seem to operate the same way as Othniel's Spreadsheet Salamanca does . . .

Can you specify how, especially what tile the governor picks on growth? During my set he was picking a regular grass tile, so I assumed that would continue.

Also, note that I said the factory would not work until the Salamanca BG was mined. I think you mined it during this set, so it's possible that the BG just needed improvement for the sheet to work. Also, Rat Falls cannot work the wheat on the turn Salamanca grows to size 4. Of course, my math skills could be just sub-par, which is totally possible. Anyhow, more info would be great.

One thing I would do with the workers: Grab at least one and start roading down the chokepoint toward the open area beyond. Bring the spears as a guard and gets us an access road pushed through. The town is not offering any defense bonus, so we can just as safely have the spears on the grass, fortified when possible of course.

Cutting this road would help to settle forward, which I think we should start making happen as soon as possible.

I can see I need to do that spreadsheet on when we should start the GLib pre-build. That'll help us know our research path. I'll try to do that tonight and post tomorrow.

 

[Aabraxan]

City placement has always been one of my weaknesses. My thinking on placing Aabra's Folly was: (1) grab the gems; and (2) allow it to be a useful specialist farm after the palace jump. I don't see any tiles from which the whale can grabbed without a cultural expansion. (Or is it just me?) I understand the need for a temple in Greebley River, where we're about to embark on a huge building project, but do we really want to build a temple in a coastal city that will eventually be a specialist farm?

Salamanca -- I'm not at a computer where I can look at the saves, but I'll reconstruct as best I can. On the turn when the first settler was produced, Salamanca was capable of producing 6 spt or 8 spt. The latter required me to borrow the mined BG from Rat Falls. The spreadsheet said it should produce 7 spt. I could not get 7 spt to work. Another thing that confused me was the question of how large Salamanca should be. Looking at the spreadsheet and comparing the tiles to be worked, I appeared to have an extra citizen. Immediately after settler production, I think I had 3 citizens, where the spreadsheet only made allowances for 2. And yeah, I wondered about whether having that other BG un-mined was affecting the factory's operation.

Can you specify how, especially what tile the governor picks on growth?

Off the top of my head, I don't recall which tile was assigned on Salamanca's growth. The good news is that I usually save at the end of every turn during SGs, so I've got all the saves that we can analyze if you'd like to see them.

1. Research
Are we going for IW - writing - literature? Or, are we heading for literature without going for IW? I would go for IW as we need to secure at least that resources.

1. Research -- IW. As we don't have horses, I think it's critical to discover if we have iron.

2. Expansion
Where are we settling next? I would be inclined to start our push towards the south as we need fresh water It looks as if the AI is ignoring our choke city as we have an elite spear in there?

2. Expansion -- I think it's time to move out. The AI is ignoring the choke city. Either that or China ran out of military. After that one attack, I never saw another Chinese unit. At any rate, I think Aabra's Folly settled the last really viable town north of the choke prior to the palace jump.

 

[gmaharriet]

At any rate, I think Aabra's Folly settled the last really viable town north of the choke prior to the palace jump.

I would agree with this. Although we have silks in the tundra to our north, it might make more sense to grab the ones to our south with those nice rivers nearby. It would also deny the silks to the AI if we can get there soon enough.