RBC-14G The Barbaric Incans (Age of Discovery - Emperor)

[Grimjack]

I have done some math now, and I will present it here, hoping that someone will prve me wrong.

x=number of turns to cultural victory.

I assume library in two turns, Colosseum in 8 turns, cathedral in 18 turns, and University in 34 turns.

4000 = 1271 + 29x + 2(x-2) + 2(x-8) + 3(x-18) +2(x-34)
This can be simplified into
4000 - 1130 = 38x
Which gives x=75 more turns until victory.
Given that we are at turn 60 now, and europeans are expected to have victory in 40 turns, prospects look grim.
Feel free to prove my math wrong, or my assumption on how fast the europeans will get VP victory.

If I am right, are there any way we can hinder the europeans from bringing treasure home ?
Do the europeans freight treasures during wartime ? If not, do we have the resources to get the europeans to fight amongst themselves ? Will such a fight give them more VPs than they otherwise would have gotten from unit kills ?

Grimjack

 

[romeothemonk]

I have found that using England to war on Portugal and France almost ceases the VP total for these two countries. I have never had England as the AI beat me in VP. It is always Portugal. So if you can get England against Portugal, and throw spain in on one side or the other, you will greatly reduce the amount of VP's returned. The fact that you are a catholic monarcy makes deals with the Spanish easier.

 

[Kiech]

The only thing you forgot about are the slaves. The Mayan game is going very strong without any wonders. Of course, slaves are hard to get since we don't have any sort of army. We currently have 5 slaves or 200 culture points, that brings us to 71 turns. The question is WHEN do we start the sacrificing?

Cuzco can only get up to size 8, so we need to decide if its even worthwhile to build an aqueduct.

Things are going a little differently in this game than the one I played through, (England was destroyed by the French, and Portugal was still in Europe.) so we may have more time than turn 100. I suspect the Spainyards won with piracy. The cities they have now don't produce any treasures.

The Inca's in this game definatley get the short end of the stick. (Oh how I long for the mesoamerica jungles that can be mined!)

Let's see what Bugsy can do for us!

 

[Grimjack]

The thing was that we would not sacrifice any slaves at all.

Having one city culture with slave sacrifices would make a different approach.
( I.E instead of wasting all that time building wonders, rack up some 10-20 scouts and go willy nilly on the other natives. )

We can get at least two workers every three turns from our existing cities, so getting workers enough could perhaps be possible even without warfare.

Grimjack

 

[Kiech]

We can't sacrifice our own workers though, I believe. Or am I reading you wrong? Otherwise the game would be TOO easy. Heck, I wouldn't even bother with science or military, just build workers all day long.

Ugh, I can't belive how weak we are in this game. Did we make a wrong turn somewhere? Should we have built another settler before the Moon, or just lots of military?

 

[Bede]

We can't sacrifice our own workers though, I believe. Or am I reading you wrong? Otherwise the game would be TOO easy. Heck, I wouldn't even bother with science or military, just build workers all day long.

Ugh, I can't belive how weak we are in this game. Did we make a wrong turn somewhere? Should we have built another settler before the Moon, or just lots of military?

The weakness comes right from the really crummy terrain. The military doesn't reach any kind of decent power until Body Ornamentation or the European battle techs, so building them early would have just increased unit costs without any return.

Getting the Europeans at each other's throats is a really good idea, if we can pull it off.

Order of go check:
Grimjack-played
Bugs - up
Kiech - on deck
Bede - in his jungle hermitage.

 

[romeothemonk]

I have not won as an American Civ without sacraficing. The closest I got was as the Inca, where I only needed to sacrafice 10 to win. In my game I never got to Cathedrals, and I don't even think I built a Coluseum. Therefor, if you can get the Europeans fighting, you should be able to pull out a win.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I'm playing now. Sorry, got caught up in playing pirate in the "E" game.

I will still continue to collect slaves. We really need them to improve this lousy land we live in. Should we try for another wonder? Will that improve our chances enough to win?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Pre-flight – 1550 AD – Man, we are kicking butt! Three cities!

VP – wise, Spain has 4920 points at the top of the heap. We are leading the one-city cultural race, but not by much.

We are presently making 29 cpt.

Diplo Check – The Mayans won’t talk to us. France wants a city for peace.

What does our military look like? Fearsome! 2 spears and 3 Chasqui Scouts. No wonder the French want a city. Decide that we need some more military right now. Spend 32G cutting a turn off a Q-Bowman.

No one is building the Temple of the Sun yet. Might have to try for that after we get all the rest of our cultural buildings.

Make 6G selling our WM around. City check looks good. Spend 76G cutting a turn off our library build with a granary rush. I hope I don’t live to regret that one.

IBT – French sign up the Dutch in a MA against us.

1. 1551 AD – Not much to do there. Move the workers towards Machu Picchu.

IBT - Hiawatha demands Education. I ignore him, and we don’t go to war.
Cuzco: library=> colosseum (following Grimjack’s plan)
Tiwan: Q-Bow=> Q-Bow
Machu: Granary=> Settler

2. 1552 AD – Take a peak into Saute Ste. Marie. A pike is defending. Start a road towards Machu.

IBT – An Archer steps out of Sault Ste. Marie towards our C-Scout.

3. 1553 AD – Run a circle around the archer and step just out of range.

Sign a peace treaty with the Mayans. Give them Theology for 8G & WM.

IBT – French archer steps forward again.

4. 1554 AD – Step just beyond the French archer. Hope to get him out in the open.

Gathering gold to shorten the build time on the colosseum.

IBT – The Spanish and the Portuguese are now at war with us. Must have been that target we painted on our chest. The French don’t venture out into the jungle. We get war happiness.

5. 1555 AD – This may be controversial, but I switch our Colesseum build to a Q-Bow wasting 13 shields. The dogpile is only going to get worse, since the AI is starting to smell blood.

Move a C-scout into Machu, move the Q-Bow towards Tiwan.

Attempting to divert attention from ourselves I buy the Mayans into our Spanish war for Education.

Spend 55G for an Embassy with the Aztecs. They’ll complete the Temple of K in 34 turns with 6 spt. Bribe the Aztecs with Education against the Portuguese.

IBT – The Spanish come out of nowhere and we lose one of our C-scouts in Machu. We are in deep kimshi boys and girls. A Dutch MDI approaches, and the French send two longbows our way.
Cuzco: Q-Bow=>Q-Bow

6. 1556 AD – Machu will fall next turn. The Spanish won’t talk to us. The French still want our second city. I send a Q-Bow towards Machu. There is a force of three Spanish longbows just outside Machu. Change the build in Machu to a Q-Bow. Hope it stands. I’m in survival mode now boys and girls.

IBT – Machu falls.
Tiwan: Q-Bow=> Spear.

7. 1557 AD – Pull workers back. I wish I had some clear land around Tiwan.

IBT – The French pull the Iroquois into the war.
The French step out into a cleared tile.
Cuzco: Q-bow=> Q-bow

8. 1558 AD – At the gates of Tiwan: Two Q-bows enslave French LBs. One promotes.

“We’re not dead yet. We’re getting better.”

Spend 48G rushing a spear in Tiwan.

IBT – Iroquois declared on the Maya.
We lose a Q-Bow to a Dutch MDI (-2hp). A Dutch LB steps forward.
Tiwan: Spear=> Q-Bow

9. 1559 AD – At the gates of Tiwan: Q-Bow flawlessly defeats Dutch MDI.
Elite Q-Bow enslaves a Dutch LB.
Step across the river towards Machu and find two Spanish LB. Enslave one with a Q-bow. We’ll lose him next turn.

The Dutch will talk to us, but want all our workers, 2gpt & all our cash.

We’re at 1548 culture in Cuzco.

IBT – Lose the Q-Bow to a Spanish LB as expected.
Cuzco: Q-Bow=> Q-Bow

10. 1560 AD – Lose a Q-Bow attacking the Spanish LB.

After action: I’d keep building Q-Bows and start going on the offensive. We will probably have to settle for a sacrificial culture win.

Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/RBC14G,_1560_AD.SAV

 

[Kiech]

Sorry, please skip me...my computer crapped out on me. Tough turns Bugsy!

 

[Bede]

I'll pick up tomorrow and try to play tomorrow. Otherwise Sunday

 

[Grimjack]

I did not know Q-bows could enslave. Agree on the Q-bows now, we need to be able to fight off the evil white men.

And for the lurkers, this is almost a schoolbook example of why you should fold to Ais, even when they are far away. Things are likely to get hairy when they far away AI buys in the AI closest to you.

Of course in this case, we would have lost a building in our capitol, so it was a bad day whichever decision we would have taken. I do not know of any one who would have spotted the demands in time to lower research away from deficit spending.

 

[Bede]

1560
The good news....we have zero corruption
The bad news...80 years to go and 79 years for 4000 culture without sacrifice.
Put Cuszco on starvation rations for gold and shields (2 years at -1fpt with five in the store)

Spanish Conquistador attacks Tiwa and impales on spear..whew!

William of Orange comes calling...wanting all our workers and 10g for a Peace Treaty. I'll get back to you, Will. His farewell message is delivered by an advancing MDI.

There are two Spanish longbows outside Tiwa, not reachable.

1-1561
Move a native worker to Tiwa to merge for one more shield.
Cuzco goes off starvation diet.
Portugal declares war on Maya.

Another Spaniard and his dog die at Tiwa.

Maya and England are at peace.

2-1562
Elite Q-bow at Tiwa kills Spanish longbow and captures another slave.
Isabella wants a peace teaty and all our workers, offers 70g in compensation. That's better..
Kill another Spaniard for another slave.
Monte calls and offers to renew our peace treaty. Income jumps 17gpt. Immediately spend 6 of it to avoid riots in Tiwa.

3-1563
Isabella will take all our slaves for peace and pay 90g. She has just landed some treasure galleons as her treasury has jumped 600g..that's better. I'd really like to have Machu Picchu back.
Henry will talk but he wants all our slaves as well and there is still some years on the alliance with Inca
William's MDI impales on spear at Tiwa

4-1564
Still no movement on peace negotiations with Spain or Portugal. William's offer is decreased by by one slave.
He has a caravel sailing the east coast. Move Q-bow onto mountain.
As there are no bogies within two moves of Tiwa move offensive (2 elite Q's, a vet and scout) force onto mountain above Machu Picchu.
Spain comes calling...she'll take eight slaves but offers no cash.
Dutch caravel sails back north.
Spanish LB emerges from Macchu Pichu

5-1565
Elite Q-bow kills Spanish LB -1hp. Forward movement reveals French musketeer approaching from southwest.

Iroquois and Aztec sign a peace treaty.

Spanish longbow kills Q-bow in jungle outside MP.

Maya come calling...wanting our map and 14g for his..agree.

French musketeer retreats into mountains.

6-1566
Q-bow killed at Macchu Pichu. Second Q-bow whips pike no slave.
No movement in peace negotiations
Netherlands delcares on Maya.
France delcares on Maya
Our GA ends and Tiwa riots

7-1567
Kill another pike at Macchu Pichu, get another slave.

Spanish LB kills Q-bow outside Macchu Pichu.
Retreat to Tiwa for regrouping

8-1568
Rush Q-bows at Tiwa and Cuzco
Put Cuzco back on 2-turn short rations to build gold hoard.
Spain offers peace for 10gpt.
Henry offers peace for 6gpt but there is still 7 years on the alliance with Inca
Francis isn't being reasonable.
Willaim wants 20gpt.
Hiawatha wants 20gpt.

9-1569
Rush Q-bow in Tiwa
There are two Spanish LB's are way to Tiwa and a French musketeer advancing on Cuzco.
Spain's offer for peace goes up to 12gpt.
France comes down to 20gpt.
Henry's at 6 but there is still 6 years on the alliance with Inca
Willie's t 17gpt.

10-1570
Nothing changes.
The slave force is mining a hill outside Cuzco to replace shields lost when GA ended. They are protected from Spanish Conq by spear and Q-bow. And should be done on IT. One tactic not attempted was seeking loans from the Europeans as part of the Treaty negotiations. As long as the slave force is in the capitol they will demand their return for peace. If the slaves are not in the capitol they will accept gpt.

The misjudgement on not caving in to extortion was mine. . I just didn't figure on the rapid involvement of the Europeans.

 

[Grimjack]

Look on the bright side. If we survive, we will have lots of slaves we can use to thank the gods with

I have it.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

We are certainly living up to the "Barbaric" moniker that I tagged us with. We need to keep an eye on the European VP totals. If they start getting close, we'll need to start sacrificing slaves.

 

[Kiech]

I am back...sorry for the skip guys. But the good news is that I got a new tower, so hopefully I won't need to worry about such things for a while.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Kiech, if you want, we can slide you in next after Grimjack.

 

[Grimjack]

Or you can take it at once. I cannot play until late tonight due to heavy workload.

Grimjack

 

[Kiech]

I can't play till my AM (pacific) if you aren't able by then I will play.

 

[Grimjack]

1570, the grand fight.

We are not at war with England, Mayans and Aztecs. Spain is obnoxious with their conquistadores, and we have lost one third of our cities.
Things look rather bleak.
We have seven bowmen, one scout and three spearmen.

IBT: The conquistador scratches one spearman, but is redlined. French offer peace for everything we have. I decline.

1571 I kill one Conquistador and two spanish longbowmen, creating two more workers in the process. There is not much I can do about the Musketeer as long as he stays on the high ground. Likely he will pillage our goldmine this turn .
I rush a new spearman in Tiwanu.

IBT: England declare on the Maya. Instead of pillaging our goldmine, the Musketeers decide they want to tray and pillage Cusco, and impale themselves on our spears.

1572 Advance upon Machu Pichu.

IBT: France sends a colonists towards our borders. Portugal manages to send yet another longbow towards our troops.

1573 The longbow is defeated, but I lose a couple of hps of our Bowman.

IBT: The french colonist occupies a river tile, and the loss of trade makes Tiwanaku go into disorder. My apologies for not foreseeing this.

1574 Capture the colonist from the accompanying pikeman without losses as a compensation.
Forces into position for assault on Machu pichu.

IBT: Maya and Iros sign peace. Counter out of Machu pichu destroys the guarding spearman.

1575 We are once again in possession of Machu Pichu. For some reason there is resistance in the city. We also net one slave, and we lost no Bowmen.
I speak a bit with the embassador of Isabella, and after showing him our sacrifical pits, he agrees to it being reasonable to have peace between our nations if they pay us 80 gold.
Peace with Spain.

IBT: Aztecs stop the alliance against Portugal. Good, gives us more freedom.

1576 Boring turn with movement only. I had hoped to capture another french colonist, but they hightailed it out of here.

IBT: A portugese colonist approaches though. Resistance ends, and I rush a settler. We need to get some iron so we can get better defenders.

1577 More movement as our Bowmen heals. I am moving towards the small french city of Sault Ste Marie, hoping it does not have any Musketeers.

IBT: Machu pichu makes a settler and starts a barracks. I would have liked a temple for some cultural expansion, and it may be that temple is more important. Next leader will have to decide.

1578 The long march begins. If Ste Marie is full of Musketeers, then we could turn south, and see what we could do against Fort Hollandia. Thats another nation at war.

IBT: Maya and Spain signs peace.

1579 in the north I try to herd the Portugese colosnist out of the mountains and onto the plains, there to hopefully be an easy prey for our Bowmen.

IBT: Aztecs declare on Maya. Could not lure the Portugese to enter the plains, will have to heard him back to the hills, and hope two Bowmen is enough to grab the colonist.

1580 Troops are in position for assault on Ste Marie, and I make the decision to snag an extra turn, since I built this up for a conclusion. No one said it was strict ten turns, did they
Sacrifice two food in Cusco for one turn faster growth in Tiwanaku.

IBT: Tenochtitlan completes Kukulcan.

1581 In the north I lose one of our Bowmen, but the second secures the price, another forty culture.
At St Marie, we lose two bowmen attacking the two pikemen defending it, but we secure another two workers when we raze that city.
I will hand over the game here.
I have left the decision on the settler in the south, if he should settle on top of the iron, or where he stands.
France is somewhat willing to discuss peace, but we would still need to pay him money for it. I think you should take the peace deal anyway, and then collect another seven bowmen and march against Fort Hollandia.

Game is attached.
Grimjack