Aggie
Deity
Kiech said:
Crippling the economy of the AI by far outweighs the loss of roads. Especially when this unit treats all terrain as roads.
RBCiv Conquests SG Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Charis
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Crippling the economy of the AI by far outweighs the loss of roads. Especially when this unit treats all terrain as roads.
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
As a frequent scenario/conquest player, I have noted that the AI does use the yamabushi to pillage others, but not so much in the late game. It has an annoying habit of picking of workers with the Yamabushi.
Something else to note in this scenario is the overpowered Ninja. The AI actually uses Ninja intelligently, making them a very annoying and deadly opponent. On D-G an AI opponent constantly made Ninja and whil we were at peace annexed 6 cities.
Since I am a big fan of the create Giant SOD, target capitol, resettle technique, this is a very annoying strat to face.
I noticed a very large preference to pillage with the AI in this campaign, but they do not pillage nearly as quickly or as devestatingly as a human.
Something else to note in this scenario is the overpowered Ninja. The AI actually uses Ninja intelligently, making them a very annoying and deadly opponent. On D-G an AI opponent constantly made Ninja and whil we were at peace annexed 6 cities.
Since I am a big fan of the create Giant SOD, target capitol, resettle technique, this is a very annoying strat to face.
I noticed a very large preference to pillage with the AI in this campaign, but they do not pillage nearly as quickly or as devestatingly as a human.
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Justus II said:
I ran an LK series version of this. The AI pillaged either other to death with the Yamabushi. We actually put a unit wall along the borders to keep our development intact. Trust me - it was really UGLY.
Aggie
Deity
So is it worth it then? romeothemonk made me very curious about the game (ninja), but Lee tells a less appealing tale (which I remember now, it may very well have been discussed in this thread).
Not only is Yamabushi pretty sick, but the Ninja is broken, too. The AI can use them...the human can't, properly. I don't recall the exact details of the bug, but it's a pretty significant one.
The Yamabushi is also an AI killer moreso than a human killer. Even if the player (or team) decides to not pillage at all, AI parties at war will pillage each other to the stone age with the Yamabushi. Since outlawing alliances seems more than a bit extreme, I'm not sure what to do to balance the Sengoku scenario.
Once you get to Napaleon, I'm probably interested, but if the choice is made to continue with Sengoku, I'll sit out a round.
Arathorn
The Yamabushi is also an AI killer moreso than a human killer. Even if the player (or team) decides to not pillage at all, AI parties at war will pillage each other to the stone age with the Yamabushi. Since outlawing alliances seems more than a bit extreme, I'm not sure what to do to balance the Sengoku scenario.
Once you get to Napaleon, I'm probably interested, but if the choice is made to continue with Sengoku, I'll sit out a round.
Arathorn
Justus II
General Staff
IIRC, the problem with the Ninja is that as a hidden nationality unit, the AI can use it to attack (even capture cities) without declaring war, but if the human does the same thing, it triggers a war. Kind of like the sub bug, in reverse.
Aggie
Deity
Considering all of this we might be better of skipping Japan. But I'm up for a Sengoku game when it still will be the next choice.
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After playing the Japan scenario once, I have no interest in doing it again. The Yamabushi is just to powerful even in AI to AI wars. I never saw the Ninja bug, but that drops my interest even lower.
barbslinger
Gun blast'n shot drinker
It's sounding like it is on to Napolean then.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Completely agree in disliking Sengoku.
But will participate in Napoleonic.
But will participate in Napoleonic.
Kylearan
compound eye
"The Age of Napoleon has arrived. Nationalism is spreading through the lands. Strong infantry and cavalry forces of a newly rejuvenated France, under the direction of several great military leaders, stand ready to bring 'reforms' to the other nations of Europe."
This is a very short scenario (96 turns only!) which can only be won by military means, either via domination (40% land/40% pop), or by accumulating 60,000 victory points (25 per turn for every VP location, and by killing units and capturing cities).
The tech tree is very small: Only 12 techs in three rows, and no great wonders can be built (Britain starts with the only existing one in this scenario, Smith's). There are 7 playable civs:
Prussia (mil/ind)
France (mil/ind)
Spain (com/rel/sea)
Austria (mil/ind)
Russia (mil/agr)
Britain (mil/com/sea)
Ottoman Empire (rel/ind)
Additionally, there are some smaller, unplayable civs like Portugal, Sweden etc. There are two locked alliances in this scenario: France and Denmark are allied against Britain, the Netherlands, Portugal and Naples. The other civs start the game at peace.
France starts off very strongly: They have two MGLs right from the start, and they begin the game in republic (instead of monarchy, as the rest of the world). They also seem to have the highest number of initial units.
I haven't played this scenario yet, so I can only guess about the levels of difficulty, but it looks like France (MGLs) and Britain (island, lots of money) are easier civs to play, followed by Ottomans and Russia (both very large with few neighbours) followed by Spain (nice, secluded position, but has to fight France to get out), while Prussia (small, surrounded) and Austria (surrounded) seem to be the hardest civs to play. If others have more experience, input would be appreciated.
There's also the "bug" again that you can sign alliances on your first turn and get paid heavily for them, for example Britain could drag Spain, Prussia, Ottomans into the war and get all their gold for it. This should be ruled out as exploitative, IMHO.
Since research is not so important this time, harder difficulties than usual would be possible IMHO. I guess there will be a Sid team againsalute: T-hawk), and depending on the number of sign-ups, we could run at least one game as an open SG.
Because this scenario is so short, I propose small teams of four players so that each player will be able to play at least two full sets of turns. So, who's interested in which civ/level?
-Kylearan
This is a very short scenario (96 turns only!) which can only be won by military means, either via domination (40% land/40% pop), or by accumulating 60,000 victory points (25 per turn for every VP location, and by killing units and capturing cities).
The tech tree is very small: Only 12 techs in three rows, and no great wonders can be built (Britain starts with the only existing one in this scenario, Smith's). There are 7 playable civs:
Prussia (mil/ind)
France (mil/ind)
Spain (com/rel/sea)
Austria (mil/ind)
Russia (mil/agr)
Britain (mil/com/sea)
Ottoman Empire (rel/ind)
Additionally, there are some smaller, unplayable civs like Portugal, Sweden etc. There are two locked alliances in this scenario: France and Denmark are allied against Britain, the Netherlands, Portugal and Naples. The other civs start the game at peace.
France starts off very strongly: They have two MGLs right from the start, and they begin the game in republic (instead of monarchy, as the rest of the world). They also seem to have the highest number of initial units.
I haven't played this scenario yet, so I can only guess about the levels of difficulty, but it looks like France (MGLs) and Britain (island, lots of money) are easier civs to play, followed by Ottomans and Russia (both very large with few neighbours) followed by Spain (nice, secluded position, but has to fight France to get out), while Prussia (small, surrounded) and Austria (surrounded) seem to be the hardest civs to play. If others have more experience, input would be appreciated.
There's also the "bug" again that you can sign alliances on your first turn and get paid heavily for them, for example Britain could drag Spain, Prussia, Ottomans into the war and get all their gold for it. This should be ruled out as exploitative, IMHO.
Since research is not so important this time, harder difficulties than usual would be possible IMHO. I guess there will be a Sid team again
salute: T-hawk), and depending on the number of sign-ups, we could run at least one game as an open SG. Because this scenario is so short, I propose small teams of four players so that each player will be able to play at least two full sets of turns. So, who's interested in which civ/level?
-Kylearan
Aggie
Deity
I'm interested in a tough game (high difficulty level with difficult civ). I haven't played this scenario before, so I can't give any experience input
I have tried a couple of times to win as Preussia in Demi-God, and while the difficulty is about right, I cannot prevent France from accumulating VPs faster than I do.
France is an easy game no matter what difficulty.
The other nations I have not really tried, but I think they would be winnable on Demigod and lower. Any higher difficulty will likely run into the problem with France getting gobs of VPs and no way to prevent that from happening, other than going after France by yourself.
This is difficult because France has better quality troops than anyone else, they have more of them, and they will likely trigger their GA turn 1 or 2.
Grimjack, who would consider Spain, as that will be very challenging.
France is an easy game no matter what difficulty.
The other nations I have not really tried, but I think they would be winnable on Demigod and lower. Any higher difficulty will likely run into the problem with France getting gobs of VPs and no way to prevent that from happening, other than going after France by yourself.
This is difficult because France has better quality troops than anyone else, they have more of them, and they will likely trigger their GA turn 1 or 2.
Grimjack, who would consider Spain, as that will be very challenging.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Comments:
Exploits:
1st turn diplomacy. Since you need to be able to sign alliances, I'd suggest to ban everything except straight MAs, and (France only, since they are one tech ahead), of course tech for gold/luxes.
Give-away cities: As usual, you could capture the same city over and over again...
On Civs:
France, Britain and Russia are the 3 big ones, naturally. Each of them has a specific disadvantage:
France is a Republic (and IMHO must stay that, otherwise it would totally miss the spirit of the scenario), England safe on the islands, but (esp. with no Marines/Naval Bombardment available) it's not that easy to get a foothold. Russia suffers from horrible corruption before the FP (usually hand-build in Kiev) - they have about 5 productive cities....
The middle powers:
Austria is pretty strong because they have the most useful UU of the smaller Civs. Ottomans as well; the Sipahi is not as strong as usually, but they have an elite Infantry as well. Plus a lot of Luxes. However, they are so far away that everything will take ages...
The painful ones:
Prussia and Spain cannot get a GA! Since even Portugal and OCC Dutch could get one, this looks like an oversight, but it is that way.
Aside from that, they have even more disdvantages: Spain's only UU is in fact worse then the generic unit... and Prussia is really in a bad location.
General suggestion:
Every nation will win by histograph normally. So IMHO only meeting the real victory conditions should count, and that makes France already on Demigod not exactly easy.
Civs/Difficulties/Ideas:
France- Sid
England- Deity
Russia - Deity or DG (better) with Domination goal
Ottomans/Austria - one open (Emperor?), one regular DG
Spain and Prussia - challenging on DG
(Unlike some of the other Conquests, the unplayable Civs seem completely unplayable here btw)
I'd love to play as Russia (and I would captain it, btw).
Exploits:
1st turn diplomacy. Since you need to be able to sign alliances, I'd suggest to ban everything except straight MAs, and (France only, since they are one tech ahead), of course tech for gold/luxes.
Give-away cities: As usual, you could capture the same city over and over again...
On Civs:
France, Britain and Russia are the 3 big ones, naturally. Each of them has a specific disadvantage:
France is a Republic (and IMHO must stay that, otherwise it would totally miss the spirit of the scenario), England safe on the islands, but (esp. with no Marines/Naval Bombardment available) it's not that easy to get a foothold. Russia suffers from horrible corruption before the FP (usually hand-build in Kiev) - they have about 5 productive cities....
The middle powers:
Austria is pretty strong because they have the most useful UU of the smaller Civs. Ottomans as well; the Sipahi is not as strong as usually, but they have an elite Infantry as well. Plus a lot of Luxes. However, they are so far away that everything will take ages...
The painful ones:
Prussia and Spain cannot get a GA! Since even Portugal and OCC Dutch could get one, this looks like an oversight, but it is that way.
Aside from that, they have even more disdvantages: Spain's only UU is in fact worse then the generic unit... and Prussia is really in a bad location.
General suggestion:
Every nation will win by histograph normally. So IMHO only meeting the real victory conditions should count, and that makes France already on Demigod not exactly easy.
Civs/Difficulties/Ideas:
France- Sid
England- Deity
Russia - Deity or DG (better) with Domination goal
Ottomans/Austria - one open (Emperor?), one regular DG
Spain and Prussia - challenging on DG
(Unlike some of the other Conquests, the unplayable Civs seem completely unplayable here btw)
I'd love to play as Russia (and I would captain it, btw).
romeothemonk
Order of the Engineer
I am highly interested in a Sid with France game. I am also open to being slotted in any 1 other roster, depending if there is room, and people would take me. If the Sid fills up without me, please slot me as the English.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I'm only going to play one game this time around. I'd like to play either as England or Russia.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
would like sign-up to play russia, austria as secondary.
