RBD18 - The Army Game

> can't play til Friday

Uh... it IS Friday? Do you mean next week? :P

In either case, I think Jaffa is up. Assuming he finishes before next Friday, I would become on deck, unless I misread that.

Good luck with school,
Charis
 
0) 1275AD Hmmmm. Steam power is available, but still a bit expensive for my tastes. Let's wait a bit and see if the price comes down.

Squeeze a few gold from various rulers for RoP agreements.

We're paying 22gpt to Egypt for a luxury swap. I don't think so. Here you are, Cleo, you can have 3gpt instead. And that's only because I'm feeling generous.

Rio Elephantos still hasn't got a cathedral?

1) 1280AD The Aztecs raze Leipzig. Oooh.

2) 1285AD Switch some cities to settlers to go after bits of ex-Germany.

Rio Elephantos finally gets its cathedral. Yay :)

India and Egypt go to war with America. Tough luck, Eisenhower.

Rio Elephantos revolts to the English. Ohhh, umm, ack :( :eek: :( Guess they didn't like the new cathedral.

3) 1290AD Persians finish Smith's. AI Civs cascade all over the place! Fortunately we just have 1 turn to Sun Tzu's, so we should still get it.

4) 1295AD Incense trade to France has expired. Joan gives us steam power for incense+WM+200g.

We have coal in mountains near Bapedi and a spare (unconnected) in jungle at Umtata.

Russia pays 110g+24gpt to renew saltpeter deal.

Persia wants an MPP. No thank you, X-man.

We build Sun Tzu's [party]

5) 1300AD First railroad tracks laid :)

Persians finish Newton's. French finish Shakespeare's.

6) 1305AD I remember to go round and sell off our unneeded barracks. For a whole 2g each. Whoooo!

7) 1310AD Russia and Egypt sign an alliance against England.

England raises the prices on furs (from 23 to 25gpt).

8) 1315AD Amatikulu founded near Nuremberg. Rush-build a temple (via worker, so total cost is just 280g).

Rome and Russia sign an alliance against England.

Gandhi wants an MPP. Hah.

9) 1320AD Rush-build a library at Amatikulu (again by way of worker).

Russia and Rome sign an alliance against the Iroquois, as Cathy continues her pointless wars with everybody on our continent.

Amatikulu pushes Nuremberg's borders back, and we get horses! [dance]

10) 1325AD Zunguin founded in the jungle. Entirely coincidentally it happens to be adjacent to Persian coal :D

We inform X-man we no longer wish to trade our saltpeter for his horses, since we now have horses of our own (and, it turns out, Persia now has their own saltepeter).

There is a settler with unused movement in West Point -- I was thinking he should head somewhere into the unclaimed jungle, but will leave that up to the next general.

England has masses of troops in our territory around Amatikulu, but they all seem to be heading to one of the numerous wars.

Persian iron deal expires in 2 turns. Persia now has iron in their territory, so there's no harm in renewing if X-man is stupid enough to give us anything for it (he has medicine...)

Mzilikazi of the Zulu, 1325AD

Charis up, Smegged on deck.
 
Elephantos revolted with NINE troops in it? AND it was still on WLTGD???

Dayum. I guess I need to UP my estimate of the dangers of city flip. (Anybody out there who thought my estimation was already high - take note :p ).

- Sirian
 
Plan was Vikings and Army last night, starting PLENTY early to do both...

Come 2am and the Vikings still have a few turns left, smack in the midst of a flurry of activity. On a good note, there will be a NICE surprise for folks there :P

Alas, Army got delayed. I'll get it tonight. Thanks for the bump.

BTW, if I'm late and don't say got it, the next person 'on deck' should feel 100% ok in taking the game if I've exceeded the time in the rules - I have no problem with that :P

Charisoslow
 
Well with no war going on that took less time than I thought...

1325 AD (0) - The General took so long in the bathroom at the inaugural
ceremony the people felt sure he fell in or came to some bodily harm,
but apparently he was reading a gripping tale about Vikings...

He finds it amusing (but sad) that our great glorious military nation is
the ONLY nation NOT at war!! Since last time, Germany has all but disappeared,
Persia has grown quite a bit, and France is not doing so bad. Egypt and
England hanging on. Ah, we're about to hit industrialization, no time to
start a war, but building time!

We get Communism (for Police stations, not govt) and Medicine from weaker civs
for cash and some gpt.

1330 AD (1) - You're right, England IS moving a ton of troops around :p
Amazon Preserve is settled down in the jungle.

1335 AD (2) - The puny Americans, about to be wiped out, offer us an RoP if
we will ally with them vs Persia! lol!!

Instead the Aztecs join Persia vs America. Bye bye Abe!

Start to build some police stations, continue Impi production in spots like
West Point. Gosh, not even a whiff of a discussion about an FP site in this
thread? It's past nationalism and we're in a hole. Together that means the
chances of wiping out a civ and planting an FP far from the homeland are
nil in the next millenium. If we want the best city, surrounded by a
bunch of other cities, at least some distance from capital...

that looks to me like Umtata. Otherwise Rio Ferro (real close to Zimbabwe)
or Intombe (coastal, not too central) I may queue up an FP this turn, but
if folks want to wait, just veto it.

Lol! That coal that was in Persian land, we just snagged it with our temple,
and now their worker ended up clearing OUR land for us :P
Better check on him. Whoa! Annoyed. I'll buy his ivory for 27 gpt. Polite.
(Hmm, they DO still have their own coal supply, btw)

1340 AD (3) - Rampaging Joan has destroyed the Germans. Gosh, too bad, we owed
the Germans another 17 turns of payments for Communism :D

Persia has both Industrialization and Electricity, vs nothing last turn.
Let's look around for prices. At 710 gold it seems already sold around.
Iros lack coal, and have electricity. Everyone else who is a player has both.
We get elec for coal and reduced cash, and Industrializ from Xman for good gpt.

1345 AD (4) - Now that's interesting... the AI governor agrees? It suggests
Forbidden Palace in Umtata of its own accord. Factory first, but ok :P

French, Indians, Egypt, Romans, Russians, all start to Suffer. Must be age.

1350 AD (5) - Persia and Russia sign up against England. That's going to be
a bloodbath. I see some horse vs archer battles already. Then India joins in.

To our next leader - with an Army due to (finally) arrive, you might want
to consider getting in on the English action and reclaiming some of our
cities :P

1355 AD (6) - Iro and Rome come to peace. (There goes Nuremburg... Persia rolls
over that English town)

1370 AD (9) - Aztecs have wiped out the Americans. They sign on with Persia
vs England too!

1375 AD (10) - Gentlemen... may I present... (with good timing to turn over)

Our first CREATED Army! :hammer: (Amatikulu has 3 vet cav if u like)

Zimbabwe is crankin' on shields - if you like a wonder, go for it, if you
want it to crank a dozen armies, great. Just quickened coal plant, so it
will have close to 60 shields/turn as of next turn (over 60 once more Rails)

Country-wide rail net to connect all cities is almost complete.
Umtata needs more jungle clearing, it was hit with disease recently.

Steady as she goes... :P

Roster:
Jaffa
Melle
Charis
Smegged <<< up
Sirian <<< on deck
Ozymandous

Good luck,
Charis
 
Having waited this long for an FP, I would urge holding off on building one. It's too late now for "early" benefits, and there are lands aplenty all around us, into which we can and will expand. Sure it will take a little longer, but we only have to take out one close rival to have lands worthy of a full second core.

This presuming we're going for a conquest win. If so, there is a LOT of game left to be played, and building the FP in a sad spot now just to have one would be a crime.

What victory conditions are enabled again? And which one(s) are we shooting for? Jaffa?


- Sirian


PS: now that communism is at hand, any cities we capture are going to be beyond useless. What is our razing policy again? Jaffa?
 
Conquest is the only enabled victory condition. And razing is unrestricted. The rule for captured towns is "at least one army unit must remain on garrison duty until resistance is ended."
 
Well there you have it, folks. Only way to win this is game to conquer every civ, and that is going to take a while under our rules. I would urge holding off on the FP until we can raze our way across part of England, Persia, or former Germany, then use one of our leaders on the FP in a prime location to better enable us to press onward. It would also be a good idea to plan ahead for the other army-building small wonder (Pentagon?) to be in a location with very high shield output, in or near the FP site.

- Sirian
 
Holding off on the FP is fine by me. I was just surprised when I thought about it that it wasn't discussed at all. It's just now started, so no penalty to switch off it at all.

Two things prompted me to consider starting it at Umtata.
i) It's not a lousy site actually, what I like best about it is that it's literally surrounded with cities. It's already got its core built, and the benefits would be real and immediate. As noted, the numerical benefits would likely be much larger later in a "better" more productive area

ii) I can't think of a single game, not one, where I built a "late game" FP that made ANY signficant difference in the outcome. The latest one I can think of where it WILL make a very big difference and wasn't a "early" FP is.... the Viking game.

A few differences between there and here. Vikings are the dominant world force, able to choose their opponent and go after the civ of their choice with full expectation of victory. NOT so here, or even close. There really was no good choice at all for a nearby FP in the Viking game. Our 'goal' there is to get the FP online early enough to "enable" a late-industrial push, likely Marines. There we had two weakish civs with a dozen towns on an isolated contient begging attack, here the areas near us are all Persian, which is the game superpower. In the present game, I don't see us even starting a war, much less conquering and holding "prime" lands in far off places, until tanks. And with rails on line and tanks, we will crush our foes with or without the FP. So numerically it will be superior then, but in terms of impact... I'm not convinced it will be higher utility later and further.

Umtata seems more like Bombay than Panama City, to use inside references :P

The significant factor in factor of waiting for an FP is that here we ARE likely to generate a great leader to rush it (with Epic, Academy, and a mil civ). In Vikings, our conquest of France came AND WENT with no leader, and we had no good prospect for one until we conquered Egypt. That was until they decided to land a war chariot on OUR new land outside a stack of elite cavs :lol:

So I'm fine with wait, but unconvinced it's best. I know you've had more games than I, can you give me an example of a late game FP, rushed, that had a significant impact on the outcome (or at least our effectiveness in achieving the outcome) ?

Or... is it worth considering joining the feeding frenzy on England, specifically targetting a city/location where we want to build our FP, then gogogo after them right there? That would be interesting :P

Charis
 
can you give me an example of a late game FP, rushed, that had a significant impact on the outcome
Click to expand...

First point. We're nowhere near the late game. You do understand that, right? Because of our rules restrictions, our biggest enemy is going to be... the clock. I presume that if we reach 2050 and have run out of time without conquering the world, that we will consider it "a loss" even if the histogram says we win.

The question is whether we will get more total benefit from an FP that comes sooner but offers less corruption reduction, vs one that comes later and offers more. How much later... we don't have to conquer and secure an entire core, just conquer and fully secure the FP site. We can clean up the rest of the area around as time and resources permit.


can you give me an example of a late game FP, rushed, that had a significant impact on the outcome
Click to expand...

Infantry Variant. Nuff said? :)

RBD6.

RBD5 -- wasn't rushed, but did come "late". We'd conquered a whole neighbor and secured almost all the no mans land by the time it came online.


Too much delay on the FP could push it over into "we shouldn't have waited". However, I don't share your assessment about how long its going to be before we're into wars. We first need some defensive type wars to be fought in OUR territory in order to "train" some elite units. If we send armies out without stack support, I fear we'll lose them and then where will we be?

As soon as we have foot infantry, we seriously need to pick a fight by then, if not sooner. With somebody on our continent. We have to be careful not to bite off too much and lose cities, but we can't just sit back and build up the usual force and go at it, either.

RBD5 had no good close-to-home FP options and we waited, and it paid off. It is my thinking that this situation is similar. A whole lot depends on the victory conditions and game goals. Conquest games, like RBD5 and Infantry were, run longer.


- Sirian
 
Inherited turn - lookin good people, but soon the bloodthirsty cravings of our peoples will be indulged :hammer:

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have our first army of cavalry!

Since we still owe seven turns of gold to England, they will not feel the wrath of our armies. However, Bremen looks to be sitting in a very nice spot for our Cavalry army to hit. Mr Montezuma, Your time is up :lol:

Our glorious nation enters it's very first war. And we take our very first city! Bremen is captured without losing a hitpoint from our army! Furthermore, there are no resisters. That means that our army can focus it's attention ... elsewhere. We also pulled the other dye that we didn't snag earlier. (still inherited turn). We garrison Bremen with a vet rifle.

We lose Bremen to two vet cav. grrr this makes me mad. The Aztecs will pay with their blood.

We lost a vet cav, who didn't retreat, and didn't take a single hitpoint off his attacker. The Aztecs will not survive.

Bremen is ours - but there is a resister, so our army will have to stay put for this turn.

We have an elite Cav!

Persia will ally versus the Aztecs, for dyes... which used to be under Aztec control :lol:

Persia razed the only other Aztec city within reach :O Oh well, looks like we will be sending our army to some of their other cities. We clean up an aztec elite cav on the way. Cleaning up pollution is killing us.

Our second army is created! It will be filled with non-elite cav methinks.

Egypt starts the TOE in 1400 AD. To go for it we'd have to forgo war. We do not have the economic might to stay ahead in the tech race, so we might as well wait and start prebuilding for Hoover when it looks as though electronics is near discovery.

A knight beat one of our Cav, when we were attacking it inside our own borders. Repeat after me: The RNG sucketh.

We now have two armies heading for Aztec territory, and an elite who can operate outside our cultural boundaries :hammer:

WE HAVE A GREAT LEADER!! What a unit! Two combats, first was a promotion to elite, and the second gained us a great leader! Woohoo! Oops, I forgot, leaders cannot rush improvements anymore :(.

He creates an army for us. With a third leader, I think that it is time we tried for Hoover by going TOE, then beelining Electronics.

I get replaceable parts from England for Incence. I get Scientific method and Sanitation from Joanie for 890 gold. I start Zimbabwe on the TOE. I upgrade all of our rifles to infantry, which should help secure our borders a bit more.

Umtata switches from forbidden palace to the heroic epic. We should get TOE, IF we don't lose it to cascade. Egypt are the only ones that are building it currently, and are building it with max 24 sheilds per turn :lol: Compare that to 50 odd in Zimbabwe and you will begin to see the picture.

It looks like Joanie is going to get suffrage, because all of the others are building it in low sheildcount cities. In fact, I'd hope that France gets it, because they are most likely to cascade and beat us to TOE. If any of the other cities cascades, we should beat them (unless they have been building sheilds for a large amount of turns.

Egypt comes a-callin demanding 100 gold and our territory map. How rude! I appease them (accidentally, I clicked the wrong option). Let the world know that Egypt has chosen unwisely :hammer:.

France start TOE in 1405. We agree to a ROP with Persia, and they send in an Immortal. Russia starts TOE in 1405. Persia has a couple of immortals in our territory that look as though they are beelining somewhere. France looks like a serious contender in the TOE race. Eep! I hope we can beat them (I've improved the land and rearranged the tiles as best as I could).

I was wrong, there is only one immortal in our borders, but it is zipping about everywhere on our rails.

England come a-calling wanting saltpeter for their furs. So I get them to throw in espionage and we throw in twenty gold and it's a deal!

We take our second Aztec city, and the first in their territory. It was guarded by... two spears :lol:. They obviously don't have coal either, and their rubber is not likely connected up. They had a very jungley start.

On my last turn, I bumped lux up to 10% as war weariness started to hit. It isn't bad yet, but it made West point revolt.

We SHOULD get TOE, nobody has finished Suffrage yet, and we are a mere five turns from Evolutionary theory. We also have another two armies stationed outside the next future zulu city, which is defended by - spears.

Good luck Sirian, and may the RNG be with you ;).

EDIT: This zip file should have the correct game in it. I cannot get the uploads system to work. Nothing happens when I click upload. EVER. Maybe it is due to the fact that I'm running windoze xp. I don't know. This method will suffice for now until I can get it sorted out.
 
Smegged, that zip file is coming up empty. Also would be a good idea to use the file server for uploads instead of the forum server: no extra work once you get used to it (if you keep a shortcut handy for pasting in to the addresses).

- Sirian
 
> "Rush improvement" ability removed from Great Leaders.

Is this going to cause a problem for *building* the forbidden palace the old-fashioned way? That is, 300 turns if beyond 18 or so squares, or 150 turns if a two-shield city.

:rolleyes:

Charis
 
Hmm. I guess I missed that in the rules... or more likely, forgot about it, with so many irons in the fire and nothing to remind me of that point.

Well, the FP is 200 shields now, but that's 20 turns at 10 shields per turn. In light of this, I haven't given it much thought. I'd be in favor of moving it as far away from Zimbabwe, and as far inland, as reasonable, in a well-enough secured spot, and still get it built soonish. Heh, and I may also want pigs to fly. :)

- Sirian
 
I'm an impatient
Click to expand...

You? YOU???

smegged = impatient ?
impatient = smegged ?

You think anybody's gonna BELIEVE that?

Who would embrace that concept?

I mean... what evidence exists to support THAT notion?

You? Impatient?


Well... maybe a teensy tiny bit in there somewhere. :) Now and then. :)


Got it.


- Sirian
 
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