RBD19 - The Return of Big Brother

I was thinking that we can see any offers at the table, and we can accept what we want - but whatever is accepted has to be HIS suggestion, not ours. (Meaning all deals are at "generous price" or better.) And also with the stipulation that by the end of the turn, Brother has all the tech that we do.

I'm not sure exactly what the rules are either. It says "if we don't like the offer, just GIVE it to him" - does that mean we can't let him make a different offer that we like better?
 
These rules are a bit convoluted. I had a question on my last turn about trading techs that no one answered. I'll repost it to go along with Sirp's question:

I am a little unsure of the rules here. They say that if we need a resource, and our little brother has it, we must trade with him. It also says that if we have a tech that he does not have, we must off it to him. It does not, however, say that we must get all of our technology from him. Proceeding under this understanding, I trade X-Man 33gpt, dyes, and 418 gold for Invention and then turn around and trade Invention to Cleopatra along with 2gpt, for Theology. I then trade theology to Bis for 4gpt and 70 gold and no one else has much of anything to trade. I apologize if I misinterpreted the rules, but to deprive ourselves of brokerage opportunies doesn't make sense to me.
 
I was thinking that we can see any offers at the table, and we can accept what we want - but whatever is accepted has to be HIS suggestion, not ours. (Meaning all deals are at "generous price" or better.) And also with the stipulation that by the end of the turn, Brother has all the tech that we do.

That would be correct. You never alter any of his suggested deals. You can't suggest, only ask what he suggests. You don't have to accept his offer, or sell to him first, as long as you make sure he has the tech in his hands before you click Next Turn.


- Sirian
 
Early: Persia wants to cancel our RoP agreement. Very well little brother. He also signs a peace treaty with France. We get a worker, 5gpt, and WM from France in exchange for peace.

We trade around and get Music Theory, Nanking switched to Bach's Cathedral. With the arrival of peace, I start on some banks.

Ok, we get theory of gravity, and have managed to trade around, without losing our monopoly on ToG, to getting metallurgy. So, can we get MT off our little brother? Nope, he won't accept any offer for it. He will give us 710 gold + 94gpt + WM for ToG though. Sure X-man, whatever you say!

Middle: We sell Democracy to France for 5gpt.

X-Man declares war on Crazy Cathy! We do the same of course. X-Man will get all the help against her he wants.

We capture Sverdlovsk immediately.

I send some MDIs, a longbowman, and a pikeman from Chinan up to try to take Riga.

Xerxes got Magnetism the same turn we did, meaning that we still can't MT, and now of course he has nationalism. We go for steam power at 100% science (and yet are still making money from gpt payments).

Late:

Cathy has knights outside of Tbilisi. We have no choice but to abandon the city. We capture Riga though, consolidating our empire.

Persia signs Germany into a military alliance against the Russians.

We capture Krasnoyarsk from Russia. Xerxes has serious cavalry going up there, so Russia might get the snot beaten out of it a bit. He also lands an immortal next to Ningpo, but that's on it's way to Russia....right?

I enter into the Benevolent Big Brother competition with my entry of 600 gold pieces for Xerxes birthday. He's Gracious with us these days! How wonderful!

Good Luck!

-Sirp.

The Game
 
Shouldn't you try to re-establish that RoP to let X-man's units through to Russia faster? :)
 
IT- Riga, Sverdlovsk, and Krasnoyarsk put on the subway diet.

660AD (1) Astrakhan falls to our two riders without a scratch. Re-sign the RoP deal with X-Man. Go beat up Russia little bro!

IT- Persia offers his WM for ours and 40 gold. Sure bro, whatever you want. Nice to see your smiling face again.

670AD (2) Wow, the other civs are really weak in this game. Looks like just us and our little bro are in charge here.

IT- Vladivostok falls easily to Persia. It takes two Russian Kniggits to dispatch our warrior from the disbanded Tblisi.

680AD (3) MM slider to gain cash.

IT- A few German troops enter our land. Easy Bis, easy.

690AD (4) We finish Steam Engine and I start work on Industrialization. Cathedrals started as prebuilds for Factories. Xinjian starts work on....the Iron Works! Notice that Anyang, currently building a Rider, has no barracks...Switch to Bank. Slider adjusted to 80% science. Military railnet started. Xerxes offers 87gpt and 210 gold for Steam Power. For Military Tradition he wants Steam Power, 17gpt and 1166 gold, and he will not give up Nationalism. I decide to take the money since we can research MT in 4 turns ourselves. Science back up to 100%.

IT- Rostov falls to Persia. Babylon finishes JS Back in Ur, 3 turns before we were to finish it :(.

700AD (5) I switch to Palace and then to Newton's, and then back to Palace to shed some shields, but keep the box almost full for Universal Suffrage which is coming up. Babylon has the free Nationalism, but will not trade it, nor will Xerxes.

IT- Grozny falls to X-Man. Our little bro is really flexing his might here. Gems deal is cancelled and X-Man has no extra. Uh, what happened here? Wait, were we getting them from Japan? Looks like Pasargadae will build the iron works too. Does this seem more prevalent in PTW? Since X-Man does not have any Gems to trade, I give Tokugawa 589 gold for them.

710AD (6) More military railnet.

720AD (7) More military railnet.

IT- Moscow is under siege but does not fall.

730AD (8) More military railnet.

IT- Moscow falls and the Persian horde marches on. Pikemen are no match for Cavalry. Babylon offers MPP and RoP. No thanks Hammy.

740AD (9) More military railnet.

IT- X-Man cancels our wines for 7gpt deal and now requres 620 gold for it. Sure thing bro. St. Petersburg, Kharkov, and Sevastopol fall to X-Man. Cathy is not doing so well with only 4 cities left.

750AD (10) More military railnet (almost complete). X-Man gets a big fat 375 gold check for his birthday.

Conclusion- Industrialization is finished next turn, and all Cathedrals being built are meant as prebuilds for factories. Nanking should switch to Universal Suffrage next turn and have its tiles adjusted to gain more spt. The rider in Russia is hanging out in case any support is needed, and to see what is going on in the war. I didn't help our little brother much because he really didn't need any of our help. He is close to destroying Russia. I wonder what Cathy did to piss him off so much. Oh, we have another coal that can be hooked up if desired and if we can spare the worker turns. It is near Anyang. We should probably build up our military very soon, as our cities are defended by mostly pikemen. Good luck to the next player.

PS- I may have left one small stack of workers on goto. The mouse accidentally slipped and I sent them on a 3 turn move on my 7th or 8th turn and then they moved again before I could fix them. In any event, I apologize for it. :o

The Game
 
T-Hawk: The AI really wants insane prices for Nationalism; I really don't think it'd have been worth it.

As for gifting the city to another civilization, yes we could have, but to be honest, I don't like the idea of gifting an about-to-be-captured city. I think it's borderline exploitive, and so I don't use it. I also prefer the way they do it in multiplayer, where abandoning a city takes 1 turn, so you can't just abandon a city the moment it's about to be captured.

-Sirp.
 
<enter>
Discover Industry start on Medicine
Ordered barracks in hangchow so we can train rifles during the factory build phase.
760AD (01) - Switch all the Cathedrals to Factories. I call over X to see if wants to trade Nationalism. He wants WM, Industry, 22gpt, and 510 gold. No prob.
IT: Minsk finishes library. Start University. Macao builds market, fire entertainer.
770AD (02) - Mostly railnet. Japan will pay us 55gold and 37gpt for Steam.
IT: There is quite a bit less green now that rails are being laid. Tsingtao finishes bank. Order rifles.
780AD (03) - Russia is down to one remaining city. Aunt Cathy packs up her bags and leaves.
IT: Macao barracks>Rifles
790AD (04) - X is up communism and MT. Persia is in anarchy
IT: Palace expansion
800AD (05) - Start on improving land around core.
810AD (06) - MM for medicine in 1 and 290gold. Little bro goes to democracy.
IT: Discover Medicine go for Electricity. Beijing Factory>Rifle. Xinjian builds IW>Trim worker off
820AD (07) - Call up Xerves and he would like to pay us MT, 80 gold and WM for Medicine. What a little dealer. We are teaching him well
Tsingtao still training rifles. Xinjian starts on factory. Chengdu builds Library. Babs are building Smiths
830AD (08) - Persia has Economics too.
IT: Macao builds rifle, starts Factory. Paoting builds library
840AD (09) - We could trade for economics. I'll leave that up to next leader.
Beijing builds Rifle>rifle. Tientsin builds factory>harbor. Chinan courthouse
850AD (10) - I give a young Paoting to serve as a summer home for X. He can whale watch. Or goldpan in the gold rich mountains. Plus 200g to furnish the home.




http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBD19-850AD.zip
 
(0) 850AD For the most part everything looks good. What happened to Russia though? Looks like Little Brother dropped a "OMGWHTTZ" on Cathy when I wasn't watching. ;) We managed to link up all our cities though, so that's a big plus. Persia and China are ridiculously far out in front of the other civs, right where we want to be. The only thing that concerns me is our weak defense in our cities - just like last turn. I'll see if I can replace those pikes with rifles before my turn ends. We need more artillery too - one cat is not enough.

Beijing at 39 shields/turn on rifle? Ouch - I will use workers to get that over 40 next turn. I wish we had rushed a factory and coal plant in a city immediately upon getting Industrialization so we could have guaranteed Suffrage; as it is, it might be close to get the wonder. Decide that we would rather have Smith's than Suffrage, so I trade for Economics, then switch Nanking over to Smith's. We can still build Suffrage before TOE appears, and it's no big loss if one of the other civs gets it.

(1) 860AD Smith's completed in Nanking, jumping our income up quite a bit. Cascade snapped except that one Persian city is building Suffrage. Little Brother shows up with The Corporation this turn. As a side note, I've noticed that in PTW the existence of stock exchanges causes the AI civs to put a much higher priority on the top half of the Industrial Age tech tree... with the result that they now ignore Electricity/Scientific Method to a much greater extent. This actually makes the game much easier for humans, as TOE can be secured much more easily.

(2) 870AD Xinjian builds factory, swaps to coal plant.

(3) 880AD Xinjian builds coal plant. Now at 105 shields/turn, it goes to work on Suffrage, due in 8 turns. There is a pretty good chance we will outbuild Persia to the wonder despite their big head start and Emperor production bonus.

(4) 890AD A gpt deal must have run out, because our income drops dramatically. We discover Electricity next turn though, so that should improve shortly. Kaifeng finishes factory and hits the magic 40 shields/turn number exactly (after configuration). It's set to rifle production.

(5) 900AD Several more factories complete, opening the path to build banks and rifles (depending on the city). We discover Electricity, and only Little Brother can make a fair offer for it. He'll give us The Corporation + 14gpt + 180g, which seems pretty fair to me. We could gouge out more money by haggling, but I would never think to do something like that with our beloved Little Brother! :love: Research started on Scientific Method, due in 7 turns. Suffrage will complete in 6 turns, thus preventing a cascade to TOE (hopefully).

(6) 910AD Japan "demands" Medicine. Sorry, we don't cave to demands from anyone. Except Little Brother, that is. :D He backs down, as expected. I then trade him Medicine for gems, since our gems deal expired between turns. See, Tokugawa? Isn't trading much nicer than bullying? :) Cleo scrapes up some gold for a tech; the most devalued is Medicine, so I send that to her for 20g + 15gpt.

(8) 930AD Egypt coughs up some more cash: they get Nationalism for 35g + 20gpt. Make money as I do every turn from trading world maps. The world is calm and at peace.

(9) 940AD Wines deal with Persia wears off; what do you want to renew it Xerxes? WM and 690g? That's fine with us! :love:

(10) 950AD First stock exchange finishes at Beijing. Quiet last turn. Joanie comes up with some nice cash for Metallurgy though: 36g + 17gpt.

The game is moving along nicely - it's turned into a real builder's game. Persia passed us on the histograph this turn for the first time, since the game stupidly counts score only based on population and territory. We have far more production power and commerce than Persia, since 1/2 of Little Brother's territory is hopelessly corrupted in former Russia.

We will complete Suffrage next turn in Xinjian, snapping the cascade of wonders. The turn after that, we will discover Scientific Method and can start TOE. That wonder should go in Xinjian too, where it will take 6 turns to build. The HOOVER prebuild is underway in Hangchow, which should be timed to finish Hoover about 5 turns after Xinijan completes TOE. Other than that, simply keep moving workers around and improving our cities. We are highly dificient in banks, so I've been working on them. Upgrade our pikes to rifles if you think you have the money to do so; I did not on my turn. Cities are configured for shields at the moment, they will need to be re-irrigated when we get hospitals! :cool:

Uploads file server is not working, and the zipped save file is too big to attach. So, um, I can't upload the save file! I will e-mail it to T-Hawk and hope that the thing is working soon.
 
Now that the uploads file server is working again, I can put up a picture of our current map in 950AD:

RBD19_950AD.jpg


EDIT: Ha, posting at the same time as T-Hawk! :) Sorry to clog up your e-mail, but the zipped save was only about 300K. Then again, I can download that on my connection in less than a second, so for a dialup user it might indeed pose a problem! Regardless, have fun with this turn. :D
 
Inherited turn:

Oh my god what happened to the Russians? :lol:

We've got Dyes for 6/turn up for renegotiation with X. His new offer is 120 + 10/turn; sure, bro!
One build Sulla didn't mention among all the wonder instructions: Wall Street. It'll be available soon, but yeah, we need banks first.

960 AD: Xerxes has got Refining. Good, something for us to trade Scientific Method for. Suffrage completes.

970 AD: We've got Scientific Method. Stupid Xinjian pollutes its iron mine, which will cost us a turn for ToE and require almost all of our worker labor this turn to clean.

We have time to research Sanitation before ToE will complete, so we start that.

Um, for Refining, Xerxes wants Scientific Method plus 223 gold/turn from us. No can do, bro. The best he'll offer is 110 + 60 gold/turn for it, and we have to accept. Our ToE techs will get us Refining, I'm sure.

======

980 AD: After thinking about it, I realize we'll actually get Hoover sooner by having Xinjian prebuild that while Hangchow switches to ToE. The Palace only costs 500 shields, so Hoover will take quite a bit longer in Hangchow than the prebuild would indicate. And I can even let Xinjian build a Stock Exchange first before starting on Hoover, which will get us going on Wall Street several turns sooner.

990: Xerxes wants to sign MPP, us paying 4 gold/turn. I believe we're required to accept, and I do. He goes back to Gracious.

1000: We've got Sanitation. We STILL can't get Refining from X, but he will offer 108 gold/turn for our tech. Hospitals are ordered, of course.

Hmm; do we research now? ToE is due in 4 turns, but the only 4-turn research we could do would be Espionage. We could delay ToE, but there isn't anything we can research in 5, and I don't want to drop ToE and Hoover back two turns.

Eh, let's research Espionage. I do it because of this: we will get Espionage and the ToE techs on the same turn, and the combination of Espionage and Atomic Theory should finally pry Refining off of our little brother.

======

1040 AD: Completing this turn are: Espionage, Wall Street, Theory of Evolution, Atomic Theory, and Electronics.

1050 AD: Wow, Little Bro got Replaceable Parts. He offers Replaceable + 33/turn for our Atomic Theory. Then he'll finally take Electronics and Espionage for Refining.

(I could put Refining plus 30 gold/turn on his side, ask for an offer, and he'll say our two techs. I think that's technically within the rules, but hey, let's not nickel and dime our Super Sibling.)

We have one oil, but it's not hooked up yet. Persia's got Oil on sale, but don't buy it. :) We have four rubbers, and our bro has at least one of his own.

======

Research set to Radio, in hopes that X will research Steel while we do that.

X gets 100 bucks for his birthday. (Hey, I cut him some GREAT deals on all those techs. We got SEVEN techs on my turn.)

Hoover's due in 3, although it'll only make that if Xinjian doesn't pollute.

Everyone besides Persia is at least five techs behind. Exactly as we'd like it. :)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbe19-1050ad.zip
 
The combined research efforts of China and Persia shine forth as a beacon for all the world to see, bringing the light of reason and wisdom to the unenlightened natives of the rest of the world. Surely the everlasting friendship of Mao and his little brother Xerxes will take them together to the very stars!

Mao -> :king: :love2: :king: <- Xerxes

T-Hawk
Sirp <<< UP NOW
Speaker <<< on deck
voodoocat
Sullla
 
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